is it true transplant last only couple of years
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armani looks like a fantastic hair transplant doctor- looks like one of the best.
what do you think of him college?
what do you think of him college?
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college,
My recent strip was 38.5 cm long and varied in width ranging between 1.3 and 1.7 cm. There are variations in scalp laxity throughout both the parietal and occipital zones in the donor area.
It's now been four procedures and 6900 strip grafts to date. My recipient area has been a surface area of approximately 118.75 cm. If you do the math, it comes out to 58 cm2 but remember, no one achieves 100% yield on strip or FUE although IMO strip in the best hands still produces the best yields. That's what I continue to see without a doubt.
In addition the density per cm2 in my front forelock is somewhat higher than the midscalp for the obvious reasons. So my point is that the 58 cm2 is not consistent throughout the entire recipient areas. I have medium coarseness grade with a slight wave so that will help too.
I still do not see any reasoning with anyone trying to achieve density at those much higher levels you bring up from time to time. It's simply not smart management of the donor for future loss, period. It makes no sense, no offense. :shock:
My prior scar from my third procedure was 1 to 2 mm depending which area of my donor zone you look at. Dr. Shapiro just performed a double-closure method employing a trico closure technique. The interior sutures really help to take tension off the epidermis outer layer. That greatly prevents widening and promotes healing to a very thin linear scar. Then he used staples for added insurance. My scalp laxity was average so I'm not taking any chances. Still, there will be hair growing through the thin scar.
Thanks for asking bud!
My recent strip was 38.5 cm long and varied in width ranging between 1.3 and 1.7 cm. There are variations in scalp laxity throughout both the parietal and occipital zones in the donor area.
It's now been four procedures and 6900 strip grafts to date. My recipient area has been a surface area of approximately 118.75 cm. If you do the math, it comes out to 58 cm2 but remember, no one achieves 100% yield on strip or FUE although IMO strip in the best hands still produces the best yields. That's what I continue to see without a doubt.
In addition the density per cm2 in my front forelock is somewhat higher than the midscalp for the obvious reasons. So my point is that the 58 cm2 is not consistent throughout the entire recipient areas. I have medium coarseness grade with a slight wave so that will help too.
I still do not see any reasoning with anyone trying to achieve density at those much higher levels you bring up from time to time. It's simply not smart management of the donor for future loss, period. It makes no sense, no offense. :shock:
My prior scar from my third procedure was 1 to 2 mm depending which area of my donor zone you look at. Dr. Shapiro just performed a double-closure method employing a trico closure technique. The interior sutures really help to take tension off the epidermis outer layer. That greatly prevents widening and promotes healing to a very thin linear scar. Then he used staples for added insurance. My scalp laxity was average so I'm not taking any chances. Still, there will be hair growing through the thin scar.
Thanks for asking bud!
sounds great. since dr keene worked with dr shapiro, does that mean they both use the same methods?
Also, I've been doing 30/cm2 per session. Do you think I'd be wiser to do 20 instead, for higher yeild? I have course hairs, but most are singles. Dr Keene doubled some up. At least i think that is what she said during the surgery.
Also, I've been doing 30/cm2 per session. Do you think I'd be wiser to do 20 instead, for higher yeild? I have course hairs, but most are singles. Dr Keene doubled some up. At least i think that is what she said during the surgery.
dirtrider67
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hey gill, looking forward to seeing some pics. i must say that your post's and college post's have been very informing and encouraging. keep up the good work! may i ask what type of inscsion procedure was used in your hair transplants? scalpal or needle? my dr used the needle procedure and i was just wondering if this is the best way to go. it appears that armani makes slit inscsions and i must say, the results are amazing.
thanks
thanks
since i will have 3000 of an ideal 8000, or 1000 of an average 6000 donor hairs left after my last procedure, i guess that means that even early nw4's can get good results too, if they can stop their hair loss. But much past that and they will have to go a bit thinner, like 50 fU, or go a bit higher.
So get a strong regimen and see where you can go. though if you max at NW4, there is a good chance you may have no where to go but down once you max, unless you are doing RU or something.
I read that men have 4000 to 8000 donor hairs without having cosmetic issues in the back, if it is done right. obviously FUE from a small area would mess stuff up back there. So guys with only 4000 may have problems, though FUE might get around scalp tightness issues.
8000 hairs is about 1/4 of the traditional donor area, I think, so that would drop someone from 60 down to 45 FU if done evenly. But worse if not done evenly.
So get a strong regimen and see where you can go. though if you max at NW4, there is a good chance you may have no where to go but down once you max, unless you are doing RU or something.
I read that men have 4000 to 8000 donor hairs without having cosmetic issues in the back, if it is done right. obviously FUE from a small area would mess stuff up back there. So guys with only 4000 may have problems, though FUE might get around scalp tightness issues.
8000 hairs is about 1/4 of the traditional donor area, I think, so that would drop someone from 60 down to 45 FU if done evenly. But worse if not done evenly.
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dirtrider67,
Thanks for the encouraging words and glad to hear that it's been helpful.
Dr. Shapiro used only custom made blades and utilized three types of mico-incisions. A combination of coronal, saggital, and lateral slit incisions were used for two reasons. First, to parallel the natural direction and angulation of the existing hair in the recipient area to avoid transection, and second to achieve the best cosmetic aesthetic result. My existing hair in the recipient area was cut down to about 1/4 inch
I wanted to add definition to my hairline without lowering it any, although I asked him to incorporate a slight widow's peak which he did with twelve single hair grafts. The rest was density from front to the commencement of my crown. No grafts were put into the crown even though it is still a little thin but I'll be able to comb some of the hair from the new grafts over it.
I'll be putting up a post with pics as soon as I get them! :wink:
Thanks for the encouraging words and glad to hear that it's been helpful.
Dr. Shapiro used only custom made blades and utilized three types of mico-incisions. A combination of coronal, saggital, and lateral slit incisions were used for two reasons. First, to parallel the natural direction and angulation of the existing hair in the recipient area to avoid transection, and second to achieve the best cosmetic aesthetic result. My existing hair in the recipient area was cut down to about 1/4 inch
I wanted to add definition to my hairline without lowering it any, although I asked him to incorporate a slight widow's peak which he did with twelve single hair grafts. The rest was density from front to the commencement of my crown. No grafts were put into the crown even though it is still a little thin but I'll be able to comb some of the hair from the new grafts over it.
I'll be putting up a post with pics as soon as I get them! :wink:
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college,
If most of your donor is in singles, then you'll need more grafts. The coarseness is going to help you more than you might think. I would encourage you to approach the density per cm2 as you are, on the more conservative side. If you are a good healer with minimal scarring then you can always add to it. Obviously the blood supply is going to be compromised with each procedure. But the reason I say conservative is because again if your FU cm2 is low in the donor areas because of the singles, then your remaining 6,000 to 8,000 will visually produce less than if your FU cm2 were higher say at 2.3 or so. Feel free to e-mail any pics in confidence if you like.
The staples are really the Doctor's call. Leaving sutures in for additional time does not address nor help to prevent potential stretching. Believe me, I was not excited about it but I simply do not have the laxity I once did because of my prior procedures. So I welcomed the staples. Actually they are not that bad. The first couple of days or so post-op were sore but not to the point to where I could not sleep or anything. I am having my PCP remove them when I hit twelve days post-op. Then I'm going to my stylist to have the rest of my hair slightly trimmed so the recipient area does not look too short compared to the rest of the existing hair.
I really can't speak as to why Dr. Keene took a 6 inch strip last time since I am not a doctor. But the trico closure is not for everybody for the obvious reasons. I've seen some great pics of them though. I just received some more pics from another one of Dr. Rose's patient's and man, you could not tell where the linear scar was. This patient was a good healer and did 2700 strip grafts. No redness either. The other option is to have FUE grafts placed into the scar if the patient does not have the trico closure.
One last thing. Not only am I beginnig to see lower laxity in myself but my donor density has definitely decreased from my three prior procedures. Basically there is a little more space between my FUs in the donor zones, but no spots since I did not have FUE.
Can you guys imagine what my donor would look like with 6,900 grafts taken by extractions? Probably would look thin and moth-eaten. :freaked2:
If most of your donor is in singles, then you'll need more grafts. The coarseness is going to help you more than you might think. I would encourage you to approach the density per cm2 as you are, on the more conservative side. If you are a good healer with minimal scarring then you can always add to it. Obviously the blood supply is going to be compromised with each procedure. But the reason I say conservative is because again if your FU cm2 is low in the donor areas because of the singles, then your remaining 6,000 to 8,000 will visually produce less than if your FU cm2 were higher say at 2.3 or so. Feel free to e-mail any pics in confidence if you like.
The staples are really the Doctor's call. Leaving sutures in for additional time does not address nor help to prevent potential stretching. Believe me, I was not excited about it but I simply do not have the laxity I once did because of my prior procedures. So I welcomed the staples. Actually they are not that bad. The first couple of days or so post-op were sore but not to the point to where I could not sleep or anything. I am having my PCP remove them when I hit twelve days post-op. Then I'm going to my stylist to have the rest of my hair slightly trimmed so the recipient area does not look too short compared to the rest of the existing hair.
I really can't speak as to why Dr. Keene took a 6 inch strip last time since I am not a doctor. But the trico closure is not for everybody for the obvious reasons. I've seen some great pics of them though. I just received some more pics from another one of Dr. Rose's patient's and man, you could not tell where the linear scar was. This patient was a good healer and did 2700 strip grafts. No redness either. The other option is to have FUE grafts placed into the scar if the patient does not have the trico closure.
One last thing. Not only am I beginnig to see lower laxity in myself but my donor density has definitely decreased from my three prior procedures. Basically there is a little more space between my FUs in the donor zones, but no spots since I did not have FUE.
Can you guys imagine what my donor would look like with 6,900 grafts taken by extractions? Probably would look thin and moth-eaten. :freaked2:
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I forgot to mention something very important. When my crown was examined and assessed, Dr. Shapiro said it really had not got any worse since he did my first procedure ten years ago. And I'm specifically referring to the miniturization process of the existing natural hair left in my crown. There's been maybe 500 grafts added to it from my third surgery but not the recent procedure I had last week.
Still, it was very comforting to realize that the biggest single reason for this crown stabilization is from being on finasteride since 1996. That's when I started cutting Proscar. That's my opinion anyway because if I had not started finasteride ten years ago, I would have lost more hair in my crown for sure, and it's a big area. That left me more grafts to place in the front and midscalp. :hairy:
Still, it was very comforting to realize that the biggest single reason for this crown stabilization is from being on finasteride since 1996. That's when I started cutting Proscar. That's my opinion anyway because if I had not started finasteride ten years ago, I would have lost more hair in my crown for sure, and it's a big area. That left me more grafts to place in the front and midscalp. :hairy:
LookingGood!
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IBM said:
No No NO!!!!!!!!!!!! These hairs may miniaturize over time also. Nothing is exempt from male pattern baldness! Guys please dont think that these hairs have a free ticvket out of jail from mother nature. Did you ever see thinning donor region? It exists!
dirtrider67
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gill, thanks for the info. also just wondering if you've been using anything else besides finasteride for your regimen. i am starting finasteride this weekend and will be cutting proscar into 1/4. i also started using minoxidil but not sure if it's more hassel than it's worth because all i really want to do is keep what i have. i don't mind the thinning look as i am nearly 40. i want to keep what i have on top and have maybe 1 more hair transplant deppending on how my first one turns out. still at only 3 weeks post op on my first one. i got my staples out at 11 days and it hurt worse than the whole procedure. made me cry like a baby! i had my 4 year old daughter in my lap and she was laughing at me. lol guess i'm just a big ol baby.
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dirtrider67,
OH NO! I'm having my staples and sutures taken out this Tuesday. :shock:
My strip was 28.5 cm long so can you imagine how many staples there are? Here's the trick though. It is imperative to wet the area with saline ahead of time like at least fifteen minutes which I am going to do. It greatly helps to soften the tissue and scabs so the metal does not stick to the scalp tissue as much as when it is dry.
I take sutures and staples out occasionally and I find it minimizes the stinging. At least now you can relax and wait for the growth brother!
OH NO! I'm having my staples and sutures taken out this Tuesday. :shock:
My strip was 28.5 cm long so can you imagine how many staples there are? Here's the trick though. It is imperative to wet the area with saline ahead of time like at least fifteen minutes which I am going to do. It greatly helps to soften the tissue and scabs so the metal does not stick to the scalp tissue as much as when it is dry.
I take sutures and staples out occasionally and I find it minimizes the stinging. At least now you can relax and wait for the growth brother!
dirtrider67
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GILL,
thanks for the heads up on the staple removal process. i'll have to rember it for the next procedure. 3 weeks post op now and my donar scar is still very tender.
i'd say that 50% of the transplanted hairs have fallen out. now comes the fun. the waiting. UHGGG! guess i'm still in dissbelief that i will have real hair growing at my hairline again. ya know, it's like come on and grow already. i aint getting any younger. LOL
thanks for the heads up on the staple removal process. i'll have to rember it for the next procedure. 3 weeks post op now and my donar scar is still very tender.
i'd say that 50% of the transplanted hairs have fallen out. now comes the fun. the waiting. UHGGG! guess i'm still in dissbelief that i will have real hair growing at my hairline again. ya know, it's like come on and grow already. i aint getting any younger. LOL
reremedies
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Re: it might be possible in a norwood 3v
Curious, what does HM and BHT stand for? I just looked up my Norwood and I'm about a 2-2.5. Would I be able to get by with one micro graft session? In ten years, the impression I'm getting is that I would have to do more grafts even if I stay on Propecia? Btw, can a guy stay on Propecia into later years? Do you have to go off it when your much older?
Thanks for any advice. I have to do something about the thinning at my temples.
haleystudios said:
Curious, what does HM and BHT stand for? I just looked up my Norwood and I'm about a 2-2.5. Would I be able to get by with one micro graft session? In ten years, the impression I'm getting is that I would have to do more grafts even if I stay on Propecia? Btw, can a guy stay on Propecia into later years? Do you have to go off it when your much older?
Thanks for any advice. I have to do something about the thinning at my temples.
Lucky_UK
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Gosh this is an old topic!
reremedies: HM stands for Hair Multiplication or 'cloning' which is still at its early stages of trials according to the company which is promoting HM, and BHT means body hair transplant which in my short time on the forums has resulted in not so many impressive results.
As Gill states, he has been taking Propecia in proscar form for 10 years and it has helped him maintain the hair he has, however many people find that they do not respond to Propecia or suffer from the side effects.
In your case I would start the Propecia and give it some time before diving into a hair transplant, it may be worthwhile explaining your situation to other experienced guys here to determine if you are suitable for a hair transplant, if your hairloss is aggressive and you do not repond to the meds then you would not be a good candidate.
Hope this helps!
Gill, This is an excellent topic, I missed this one! I take it CCS had a hair transplant after this topic?
Regards
Lucky
reremedies: HM stands for Hair Multiplication or 'cloning' which is still at its early stages of trials according to the company which is promoting HM, and BHT means body hair transplant which in my short time on the forums has resulted in not so many impressive results.
As Gill states, he has been taking Propecia in proscar form for 10 years and it has helped him maintain the hair he has, however many people find that they do not respond to Propecia or suffer from the side effects.
In your case I would start the Propecia and give it some time before diving into a hair transplant, it may be worthwhile explaining your situation to other experienced guys here to determine if you are suitable for a hair transplant, if your hairloss is aggressive and you do not repond to the meds then you would not be a good candidate.
Hope this helps!
Gill, This is an excellent topic, I missed this one! I take it CCS had a hair transplant after this topic?
Regards
Lucky
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Hey Lucky,
I agree. And by the way, some real good advice you are giving. The thing that you also pointed out was the term "aggressive loss" which I have seen many guys go through. And you are absolutely right in that they should not be doing hair transplants simply because 99.999999% of them will regret it as their male pattern baldness quickly progresses. As kind as I can put it, they simply are not candidates for surgical hair restoration IMHO.
And usually these patients are more subject to shockloss which as we know can be permanent, especially to one diffusing rapidly.
I agree. And by the way, some real good advice you are giving. The thing that you also pointed out was the term "aggressive loss" which I have seen many guys go through. And you are absolutely right in that they should not be doing hair transplants simply because 99.999999% of them will regret it as their male pattern baldness quickly progresses. As kind as I can put it, they simply are not candidates for surgical hair restoration IMHO.
And usually these patients are more subject to shockloss which as we know can be permanent, especially to one diffusing rapidly.
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I hope it works well for you too Lucky. Give it at least one full year to evaluate.