Investigating An "immuno-androgenic" Model Of male pattern baldness

[plisk]

Someone had posted this study a while ago showing finasteride upregulated IGF-1 in some patients: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12894070

TL;DR the ones who had upregulated igf-1 while on finasteride regrew hair or maintained, and those who didn't have upregulated IGF-1 had their hair worsened. Small study though

IGF-1 works locally from where it's injected, i'm curious if anyone has tried scalp injections.

good luck getting real IGF-1 without paying an arm and a leg, the stuff is almost as expensive as HGH.

Half these compounds would probably be useful, but the only people "trying" them are the same people who seriously believe the chinese sold them real thing for bargain bin prices, or that 90 iq bodybuilders running a criminal webshop to pay for rent and prostitutes are above giving you garbage to turn a profit.

 

[InBeforeTheCure]

Let the nerd throwdown begin!

Bioconductor is ready for action.

 

[hairblues]

@sunchyme1

 

[sunchyme1]

@sunchyme1

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[hairblues]

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(the science dudes are going to get pissed if we span their page with memes--some serious sh*t going down in here)

 

[sunchyme1]

(the science dudes are going to get pissed if we span their page with memes--some serious sh*t going down in here)

 

[sunchyme1]

(the science dudes are going to get pissed if we span their page with memes--some serious sh*t going down in here)

lol had some thread with a guy on another forum saying this place is sh*t cos of all the shitposting

wanted more 'serious' discussions

personally i love both.

love the chats here and the trash talk and memes

 

[hairblues]

Long story short, the binding of DHT to AR is causing the immune system to release and activate macrophages, which cause an inflammatory response that both delays wound healing and results in elevated PGD2 levels in the scalp; chronic exposure to this environment would eventually result in the miniaturization of follicles. It is not DHT that is the issue - it is the macrophage activity around it that is the issue.

Cliff Notes.

 

[hanginginthewire]

Is there anything that people can do to try and offset that?

 

[paleocapa89]

One of the numerous research cases clearly outlining the link between AR/Androgens/Immune activity
"We have previously reported that, castration of male mice results in a striking acceleration of local cutaneous wound healing and dampens the associated inflammatory response.....

This is interesting, yet doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things: why would males and females heal differently do to hormonal differences? Healing seems to be a primal function of any living organism.

 

[Dench57]

Haven't read all posts in this thread but if people think its an overactive/dysfunctional immune response to androgens, wouldn't we see reversal/stoppage of Androgenetic Alopecia in people taking immunosuppressants? I know you can point to the few exceptional cases like with cyclosporine but it would surely be widespread considering the many millions of people taking various immune suppressants/modulators.

 

[plisk]

This is interesting, yet doesn't make sense in the grand scheme of things: why would males and females heal differently do to hormonal differences? Healing seems to be a primal function of any living organism.

different demands and energy compromises would be my guess

for example, testosterone generally compromises the immune system. Women have significantly stronger immune systems and are less prone to infection as a result. Testosterone is a compromise for larger organs and more rapidly adapting muscle mass.

 

[baldboys]

The immune system is comprimised in babies. they also suffer frmo male pattern baldness in the same period.

"One of newborns’ biggest vulnerabilities is largely invisible: In the weeks after birth, babies are especially susceptible to infection because their immune systems aren’t fully functional. There are a handful of theories to explain this liability, and now a research team has added a new one to the list: Immune suppression in early life might help prevent inflammation in the infants’ intestines as they become colonized by the helpful bacteria they need to stay healthy."

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I truly dont get what you are trying to say. So now you think imunossupression is behind baldness? So are you proposing the balding virus or the balding bacteria?

 

[inmyhead]

Or maybe babies don't have hair because their have problems with gut early on?

 

[MrV88]

"In the hair bulb, Notch controls cell differentiation, ensuring the proper development of every layer of the hair shaft and inner root sheath"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45997/

"Hair follicle morphogenesis depends on Wnt, Shh, Notch, BMP and other signaling pathways interplay between epithelial and mesenchymal cells"
"This interplay of signaling between the epithelial and dermal lineage helps in epithelial Shh signal amplification. The dermal Wnt pathway helps in upregulation of epithelial Notch expression. Dysregulation of these pathways leads to certain abnormalities"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3907891/

"The most significant pathway altered in Androgenetic Alopecia is Notch Signaling"
"The down regulated genes in this pathway in Androgenetic Alopecia include CNTN1, JAG1, NOTCH2 and PSEN1 and the genes that are up regulated include DTX3, HES and NOTCH4. The expression patterns of Notch signaling pathway genes including Notch 2 and JAG1 were validated by real-time PCR (Figure S1). Jagged1 (JAG1) gene which encodes a ligand for Notch receptor maps to chromosome 20p a susceptibility locus for male-pattern baldness [8]. A reciprocal negative feedback regulation exists between Notch and AR-dependent pathways in the prostate [9]. The activation of AR and the concomitant loss of Notch signaling may be contributing factors to hair follicle miniaturization and may serve as the mechanistic link between prostate cancer and Androgenetic Alopecia. Thus, modulating the Notch signaling pathway in Androgenetic Alopecia may lead to future therapies." year 2013...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4164265/

They then showed that removing Tregs from the skin significantly reduced Notch signaling in follicle stem cells, and that replacing Tregs with microscopic beads covered in Jag1 protein restored Notch signaling in the stem cells and successfully activated follicle regeneration."

Replacing tregs? Wasn't the newest theory that tregs are essential for regrow ?

 

[H]

The immune system is comprimised in babies. they also suffer frmo male pattern baldness in the same period.

"One of newborns’ biggest vulnerabilities is largely invisible: In the weeks after birth, babies are especially susceptible to infection because their immune systems aren’t fully functional. There are a handful of theories to explain this liability, and now a research team has added a new one to the list: Immune suppression in early life might help prevent inflammation in the infants’ intestines as they become colonized by the helpful bacteria they need to stay healthy."

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What's with the 3rd babies hands? When were these pictures taken do you know?

 

[Min0]

DHT dogmatic retards blown the f*** out.

i never understood them, they don't even know how DHT kills the follicle, but they are sure that it's the ONLY factor, not a factor among a chain of reactions. and they don't want to go further to research the thing !
there might be other elements necessary for baldness to progress, and we can block those other elements (or activate them if their lacking is the problem) instead of using the most retarded way to block DHT by blocking the enzime that makes it, while they know that that same enzime exists in the spine and it's very important for brain hormones.

 

[Calchas]

If you have a factor that causes fibrosis to a tissue or organ and then you block this factor, you will most probably prevent further deterioration, but you won't reverse fibrosis.The same goes for male pattern baldness,but i doubt that immune mechanisms are involved as pathogenetic factors.

There's a driving factor that regulates the linear/symmetrical evolution of the pattern and that factor can't be other than mechanical or hydromechanical tension.