Indecision of taking finasteride is driving me crazy!

[james555]

anxiety is not going to help your hair. if this is how much its affecting you, then don't take it.

 

[shyyguy123]

Right that's why I mentioned the mental aspect. The nocebo effect seems to be quite common with finasteride due to reading about all the "scary" sexual sides before starting.

But I'm also assuming a 7-8% difference difference in DHT inhibition has to do SOMETHING in terms of lessening sides. Obviously it's not going to be huge but something is better than nothing and that's significant in the mental game.

 

[jorgedudicoff]

Thanks for all the opinions guys, I've got a lot to think about. I'm gonna try and get a good mentality going before starting treatment.

 

[Swoop]

LOL Hook, I remeber that in your story thread you said you wont touch finasteride because of "small but certain side effects". Based on your words Im pretty sure that you done your research. And now youre preaching about finasteride safety. May I ask what happens that you changed your mind? Is it emotional decision based on your further hairloss (I know, its sucks)? Whats more you calling guys "idiots" and "wankers", while even Merck officially stated that erectile problems are side effects of finasteride, and there is possibility of erecticle disfunction after discontinuation of treatment. Didnt you read that on propecia website? Thres no doubt that finasteride is proven to work, but like hellouser said, its stone age treatment. Its like trying to kill a mouse with axe, you can accidentally chop your leg. Its shame that to this day there is no proven, safe topical treatment...

It's called confirmation bias.

 

[Pequod]

If clinical studies are flawed then what are anecdotal reports? You have some serious holes in your logic. I also never mentioned that side effects from 5ARIs don't exist, I simply said a lot of the time they're psychological and in the remaining amount of real occurrences they're due to abnormally high serum estradiol levels.

You just don't seem to like the fact that there's a reason to explain and hence a way to minimise the incidence side effects.

Here is a "study" that says more "studies" are needed. Actually everyone here should take ten minutes to go through this as it brings up many good points.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/

Also, notice this at the end-

"In addition, the author also feels that in patients who are apprehensive about the side effects, it is worthwhile considering administration of lower daily doses or staggered pulse doses of the drug, to enhance patient compliance. As discussed earlier, there is sound rationale for such regimens. "

That also agrees with me.

Oh, and I currently take finasteride, had side effects, and stayed on it. They worked themselves out. Lucky me.

I do agree with you about the body fat, you have some good ideas. Hopefully when you do get to take finasteride or dutasteride (I will be surprised if you get dutasteride prescribed at your age) you won't have any side effects yourself. Hopefully you won't need a bra later (sorry, a bad joke). Now lighten up, and I will too. BTW would you be surprised if I told you that the last GP doctor I saw had no idea what Propecia was? Apparently all of his patients are either fullheads or he is a little behind the times (no need to say which it is, lol).

 

[winnyblues]

To the thread starter. finasteride is a little pill whoop... that you take one quarter a day. Easy comes easy goes
**** ive snorted coke, taken pills, tabs, weed, meth, etc
, taking finasteride was such an easy decision

I domt understand how people get anxiety over taking finasteride lol. If you get anxiety over this jeez id be worried

 

[Captain Hook]

It's called confirmation bias.

Hehe, I took psychology in high school too

Here is a "study" that says more "studies" are needed. Actually everyone here should take ten minutes to go through this as it brings up many good points.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481923/

Also, notice this at the end-

"In addition, the author also feels that in patients who are apprehensive about the side effects, it is worthwhile considering administration of lower daily doses or staggered pulse doses of the drug, to enhance patient compliance. As discussed earlier, there is sound rationale for such regimens. "

That also agrees with me.

Oh, and I currently take finasteride, had side effects, and stayed on it. They worked themselves out. Lucky me.

I do agree with you about the body fat, you have some good ideas. Hopefully when you do get to take finasteride or dutasteride (I will be surprised if you get dutasteride prescribed at your age) you won't have any side effects yourself. Hopefully you won't need a bra later (sorry, a bad joke). Now lighten up, and I will too. BTW would you be surprised if I told you that the last GP doctor I saw had no idea what Propecia was? Apparently all of his patients are either fullheads or he is a little behind the times (no need to say which it is, lol).

Fair enough, you actually make some good points here and I agree, everyone should have a read through of that study you posted.

Funnily enough, I just got back from the dermatologist, she prescribed me finasteride for now and told me that if I tolerate it well she has no qualms prescribing me dutasteride in the future.

 

[TinTon]

To the thread starter. finasteride is a little pill whoop... that you take one quarter a day. Easy comes easy goes
**** ive snorted coke, taken pills, tabs, weed, meth, etc
, taking finasteride was such an easy decision

I domt understand how people get anxiety over taking finasteride lol. If you get anxiety over this jeez id be worried

I get your drift here sunshine, and to be honest I envy you in some respects, but I think many people including myself view finasteride a bit differently due to the fact it is a long-term treatment, potentially life-long, if it shows the desired results.

For example when a doctor tells me that I need to take some antibiotics for 7 days and then I'm all good, I don't think twice about it, but if a doctor says to me 'ok you need to take these pills for the foreseeable future and then you're all good', I do think twice about it. Popping a pill everyday long-term is more of a mental commitment to come to terms with, at least in some people anyway.

 

[Captain Hook]

I get your drift here sunshine, and to be honest I envy you, but I think many people including myself view finasteride a bit differently due to the fact it is a long-term treatment, potentially life-long, if it shows the desired results.

If a doctor says you need to take these 5 antibiotics and then all is good, I don't think twice about it, but if a doctor says ok you need to take these pills for the foreseeable future and then you're all good, I do think twice about it. Popping a pill everyday long-term is more of a mental commitment to come to terms with, at least in some people anyway.

To quote myself in the original post "-Possible decreased risk of prostate cancer as well as slowed progression or even regression/remission if you have the cancer already (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0m8ATOLaM) (notice how he even says that Avodart, which is a trade name for dutasteride, has no significant side effects!)"

Prostate cancer is something that tends to arise later in life for males and such a benefit means that you have added an incentive to take such medications for life. That being said, if Kythera's setipiprant ends up passing clinical trials and reaches the market, we all could just switch to that then too. The oral 5ARIs aren't like minoxidil in the fact that they produce results that are conditional on indefinite use, they just address the issue of DHT, which setipiprant is postulated to do as well.

 

[TinTon]

To quote myself in the original post "-Possible decreased risk of prostate cancer as well as slowed progression or even regression/remission if you have the cancer already (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0m8ATOLaM) (notice how he even says that Avodart, which is a trade name for dutasteride, has no significant side effects!)"

Prostate cancer is something that tends to arise later in life for males and such a benefit means that you have added an incentive to take such medications for life. That being said, if Kythera's setipiprant ends up passing clinical trials and reaches the market, we all could just switch to that then too. The oral 5ARIs aren't like minoxidil in the fact that they produce results that are conditional on indefinite use, they just address the issue of DHT, which setipiprant is postulated to do as well.

Permission to come aboard!!

Hey Captain. thanks for the info, it's all very useful and helpful.

My post wasn't really side effect related in any such way, I was just touching on the mental hurdle some of us have accepting a long-term treatment plan, regardless of possible side effects. It's hurdle one soon overcomes when they see their hair disappearing anyway. I guess one has to view it like brushing their teeth, it's a daily commitment to yield the benefits.

 

[Captain Hook]

Permission come aboard!!

Hey Captain. thanks for the info, it's all very useful and helpful.

My post wan't really side effect related in any such way, I was just touching on the mental hurdle some of us have accepting a long-term treatment plan, regardless of possible side effects.

It's hurdle one soon overcomes when they see their hair disappearing anyway. I guess one has to view it like brushing their teeth, it's a twice daily commitment to yield the benefits.

Aye, permission granted lad. No worries.

I totally understand, it's one more thing to do, one more thing to worry about, one more thing to forget. I guess for me it's no big deal because I've been taking medication for ocular hypertension since I was 10. But I'm sure for those who have never taken prescription medication in their life, it's certainly going to be something new that they have to adjust to. Some people just don't like the idea of doing something for life, be it introducing an exercise program or a new drug.

That's a good way to look at it and most people should think of it like that, we brush our teeth to avoid tooth decay and dental caries. So we should look at taking finasteride/dutasteride as a way to avoid losing our hair.

 

[TinTon]

Yeah it's true what you say, you are either accustomed to the thought of long-term medication treatment or not, but it's something most people will have to approach at some stage within their lifetime.

Can I just ask what you meant when you said that 5ARI's are not like minoxidil in the fact that they produce results that are conditional on indefinite use? I was under the impression that just like minoxidil, once treatment is stopped with a 5ARI, then results will eventually reverse? (Maybe I completely misread the sentence)

 

[Dench57]

Permission come aboard!!

Haha. I may well have to use nautical phrases when addressing Captain Hook from now on. TOP BANTS!

- - - Updated - - -

Can I just ask what you meant when you said that 5ARI's are not like minoxidil in the fact that they produce results that are conditional on indefinite use? I was under the impression that just like minoxidil, once treatment is stopped with a 5ARI, then results will eventually reverse? (Maybe I completely misread the sentence)

My understanding is Minoxidil is fairly unique in that those hairs grown by it are dependent on continuous Minoxidil use - any hairs gained by minoxidil will all fall out within a month or two of discontinuing. I'm not sure why this is exactly, I've not researched minoxidil much because its not a treatment that interests me, Hook might be able to tell you why.

5ARi's just slow down or stop the natural process by reducing DHT. If you drop a 5ARi after having had success (regrowth) with it, you'll just start to lose that hair you've gained at your natural pace again.

 

[TinTon]

My understanding is Minoxidil is fairly unique in that those hairs grown by it are dependent on continuous Minoxidil use - any hairs gained by minoxidil will all fall out within a month or two of discontinuing. I'm not sure why this is exactly, I've not researched minoxidil much because its not a treatment that interests me, Hook might be able to tell you why.

5ARi's just slow down or stop the natural process by reducing DHT. If you drop a 5ARi after having had success (regrowth) with it, you'll just start to lose that hair you've gained at your natural pace again.

Cheers Dench lad, I think I'm getting the gist of it a bit more now.

So with minoxidil, if you gained say 10% of regrowth, but then stopped using it, that 10% could be lost at a far quicker rate than your original balding rate i.e. if you were originally balding very slowly. But (and staying on the premise that you have a very slow rate of balding) if you get 10% regrowth from taking an ARI then stop treatment, that 10% should fall out at the same 'slow rate of balding' in which you had prior to using any treatments.

 

[Captain Hook]

Haha. I may well have to use nautical phrases when addressing Captain Hook from now on. TOP BANTS!

Haha feel free mate, this bant is pure class.

Cheers Dench lad, I think I'm getting the gist of it a bit more now.

So with minoxidil, if you gained say 10% of regrowth, but then stopped using it, that 10% could be lost at a far quicker rate than your original balding rate i.e. if you were originally balding very slowly. But (and staying on the premise that you have a very slow rate of balding) if you get 10% regrowth from taking an ARI then stop treatment, that 10% should fall out at the same 'slow rate of balding' in which you had prior to using any treatments.

That's exactly it, let's just say hypothetically that setipiprant ends up being as effective as finasteride. Switching from finasteride to setipiprant shouldn't cause any loss because the hairs grown on finasteride aren't dependent on the finasteride per say, they're only dependent on the basis of DHT (or PGD2) being inhibited, which setipiprant is postulated to accomplish.

Let's say you were on minoxidil only for 2 years, you regrew a lot of hair and you wanted to switch to a setipiprant or finasteride only regimen. Any new hair grown on minoxidil would be lost as minoxidil's growth stimulant effects work on a pathway independent of DHT, hairs regrown need minoxidil's vasodilating mechanism to thrive.

 

[TinTon]

Haha feel free mate, this bant is pure class.

That's exactly it, let's just say hypothetically that setipiprant ends up being as effective as finasteride. Switching from finasteride to setipiprant shouldn't cause any loss because the hairs grown on finasteride aren't dependent on the finasteride per say, they're only dependent on the basis of DHT (or PGD2) being inhibited, which setipiprant is postulated to accomplish.

Let's say you were on minoxidil only for 2 years, you regrew a lot of hair and you wanted to switch to a setipiprant or finasteride only regimen. Any new hair grown on minoxidil would be lost as minoxidil's growth stimulant effects work on a pathway independent of DHT, hairs regrown need minoxidil's vasodilating mechanism to thrive.

Ahh I get what you mean now, so both treatments do require continuous use in order to benefit hair health (which is blatantly obvious), but there's more different types of ARI drugs to choose from, whereas the action of minoxidil is exclusive only to the chemical minoxidil.

Some say that in order to solve a problem for others, you have to have the problem yourself. A lot of entrepreneurs use that thought-path for new ideas. After reading some of the stuff on here today, I think some of you lads might be the next pioneers in anti-baldness science... or am I going a bit far.

 

[M.G]

Hook, can you please answer the claims "lagunaboy" makes here?:
I'm not far from starting finasteride but this scared the **** out of me. Is it true what he says? He claims that doctors are know claiming that finasteride kills 5ar according to studies that are coming out now, though he doesn't link any.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fnwl1/iama_29_year_old_male_whos_been_on_propecia_for_6/

 

[Captain Hook]

Hook, can you please answer the claims "lagunaboy" makes here?:
I'm not far from starting finasteride but this scared the **** out of me. Is it true what he says? He claims that doctors are know claiming that finasteride kills 5ar according to studies that are coming out now, though he doesn't link any.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fnwl1/iama_29_year_old_male_whos_been_on_propecia_for_6/

Rest assured mate, the user 'lagunaboy' obviously has zero knowledge of biochemical fundamentals or pharmacology. Finasteride doesn't 'kill' 5AR2 it simply is a suicide inhibitor of the enzyme, all this means is that it forms an irreversible complex with it and it is no longer available for use to convert testosterone to DHT, this is needed to slow or halt Androgenetic Alopecia.

This only occurs as long as you take the medication. He doesn't link any studies because there are none. He could say ice cream gave him a*** cancer and if he didn't link any studies showing the two entities are linked, you shouldn't believe him, same goes for this issue.

Once you stop taking it, finasteride clears the body rather quickly (since its half-life is only 6 hours, this means it will be eliminated in just under 2 days) and 5AR2 turnover begins. At about 2 weeks time 5AR2 activity returns to normal (proved by the numerous charts on from clinical studies on the internet showing that serum DHT begins to rise once again, as seen here http://www.hairloss-reversible.com/discus/messages/1/2637.jpg).

This means everyone should at least try finasteride and see how they tolerate it, if they end up getting real side effects they can simply discontinue this. My dermatologist told me this verbatim when she prescribed it to me. So far so good for me as well, I'm much happier since I've started the drug too. The past few months have been riddled with uncertainty and gloom over my progressing Androgenetic Alopecia.

Surely if anything the fear-mongerers were saying was true, you'd see it in the clinical trials. No such incidences occur and some of the time the placebo even causes higher rates of side effects (as stated in an earlier post I made in this thread, where the placebo caused a higher rate of impotence when compared to dutasteride during a period of the study).

Also here is a huge point that should shut any fear-mongerer up, how do they explain pseudohermaphrodites? They are born with a congenital deficiency of 5AR2, meaning they don't have any 5AR2 enzymes yet they still grow up to be normal healthy males. They only difference between them and us is that they have smaller prostates and full heads of hair.

 

[Ajaxx]

Hook, can you please answer the claims "lagunaboy" makes here?:
I'm not far from starting finasteride but this scared the **** out of me. Is it true what he says? He claims that doctors are know claiming that finasteride kills 5ar according to studies that are coming out now, though he doesn't link any.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fnwl1/iama_29_year_old_male_whos_been_on_propecia_for_6/

I have to admit as someone who's still on the fence about taking finasteride or not, reading this terrified me. A temporary inconvenience is one thing if it all goes wrong, but irreversible damage is nothing to scoff at. Even if the percentage of being affected in that way is quite low.

 

[TransientHair]

Hook, can you please answer the claims "lagunaboy" makes here?:
I'm not far from starting finasteride but this scared the **** out of me. Is it true what he says? He claims that doctors are know claiming that finasteride kills 5ar according to studies that are coming out now, though he doesn't link any.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1fnwl1/iama_29_year_old_male_whos_been_on_propecia_for_6/

Lagunaboy has issues. He was banned from /r/tressless for making multiple accounts to spam anti finasteride propoganda and harrasing users on the subreddit.