I think my finasteride has either gone bad or I've built up an immunity to the drug.

[thedarkcolor]

So my story goes as follow:

2014 - Tried finasteride 1.25mg for the first time and essentially has a PFS crash and went to the ER and was mortified of taking the drug ever since.
2015 - Tried finasteride again on several occasions, and each time had varying degrees of side effects. (brain fog, sleep issues, breast tenderness, etc)

Towards the beginning of December 2015, I began taking .25mg of finasteride every other day. It would still give me ball ache and decreased ejacualte, but I was desperate and felt like if I had recovered from all of the previous attempts, it would be worth it to give this medication one last hurrah. I was eventually able to ramp up to .5mg every other day. Somewhere between the end of December and the beginning of January 2016, I felt like finasteride just stopped working. I say this because I began losing my hairline and crown faster. Oh, and the dreaded "male pattern baldness Itch" returned in full force at my hairline and crown. I should also mention, that while on finasteride my acne and skin oiliness has increased 20 times. It's awful, I'm 26 and I look like a pizza face.

So to test my theory out, I tried 1mg one day. Instead of .25mg or .5mg. Now I've had tons of side effects every time I tried finasteride and even .25mg gave me sides initially. But for the last week, I've been able to take 1mg daily without issue and nothing has changed. Hairline and crown itches like no tomorrow, my skin is oily, I get pimples daily.

These are pills I got from a CVS pharmacy last year. Can they go bad? Can one just all of a sudden build up an immunity where DHT gets even stronger? I've always thought that finasteride for most cut down acne, oiliness, and body/beard hair growth but for me it's done the exact opposite. Am I in a shedding phase? It's only been about a month and a half or so...but I feel like something's not right. I've attached some "progress" photos all the way from 2014 so show the steady decline in my hairline and hairloss.

I'd love some opinions. Thanks everyone!

Photos are below:

 

[GoldenMane]

So you started taking finasteride in December 2015 and stopped in January 2016? So at most you had been on it for... 41 days? Did your DHT itch stop during that time?

And you say you lost ground in your hairline, but are you aware that it is normal to lose hair/shed on finasteride? Most people lose hair for the first 2 months and only start to see regrowth/thickening in their 3rd or 4th month. Given that, I would conclude that finasteride didn't stop working, in fact you never gave it enough time for it to start working. You need to try finasteride for 6 months minimum before you can be absolutely certain that it does or doesn't work. 40 days is not enough...

As for the skin oiliness, in most cases I hear the opposite, that people on finasteride experience less acne/spots, not more.

You almost certainly didn't build up immunity to finasteride, and no way up/down regulation could occur in that time scale.

So most likely you had a finasteride shed and quit before results even showed. But since you got sides, that may be for the best.

 

[thedarkcolor]

So you started taking finasteride in December 2015 and stopped in January 2016? So at most you had been on it for... 41 days? Did your DHT itch stop during that time?

And you say you lost ground in your hairline, but are you aware that it is normal to lose hair/shed on finasteride? Most people lose hair for the first 2 months and only start to see regrowth/thickening in their 3rd or 4th month. Given that, I would conclude that finasteride didn't stop working, in fact you never gave it enough time for it to start working. You need to try finasteride for 6 months minimum before you can be absolutely certain that it does or doesn't work. 40 days is not enough...

As for the skin oiliness, in most cases I hear the opposite, that people on finasteride experience less acne/spots, not more.

You almost certainly didn't build up immunity to finasteride, and no way up/down regulation could occur in that time scale.

So most likely you had a finasteride shed and quit before results even showed. But since you got sides, that may be for the best.

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly. I'm still taking finasteride and have not stopped. In fact, I'm now taking 1mg daily, whereas in late December I was at .25mg daily. However, the DHT itch has returned and the side effects have all disappeared except for acne/oily skin, which have gotten worse.

When I first started on low dose finasteride, the male pattern baldness itch subsided completely. Now that I've ramped up to 1mg daily, the itch is back in full force in the areas I am balding and all of the side effects I was getting before are gone. This is what leads me to believe that DHT has increased. I just don't think it's working anymore. Either that or my finasteride has gone bad and has no effect.

The acne/oily skin is really bad too. Pre-finasteride I was able to get my acne under control, but as soon as I started it's been like I'm going through puberty again. This is the only side effect that still remains.

Does this make sense?

 

[GoldenMane]

That's still only 42 days at the very most, assuming you started on the 1st of December. After 42 days you should expect shedding and you should certainly not expect regrowth so soon.
You're experiencing three things right now:
1. Hair loss.
2. An itch.
3. Oily skin/acne.

To address them in order..

1. At this stage you should expect hair loss, shedding is normal. There is no reason to believe this is anything but a finasteride shed.
2. This itch is more an anecdotal symptom of male pattern baldness than proven evidence of it. It is very common so it is a bit worrying, there are other factors that can cause an itch though... Do you use Nizoral? Alpecin? Maybe you should try, see if they help. It may be anecdotal evidence that your finasteride isn't working, but no way in hell have you built up "immunity" to finasteride, it's just not possible.
3. Oily skin is another anecdotal symptom of DHT, there may be a relationship between it and male pattern baldness though it's far from direct or concrete. It's certainly a potential indication that your finasteride isn't working or you got some bad finasteride, but it's far from evidence of it.

If you can take the sides then just stick with it for another 4 months, see if they subside, give finasteride a chance to work, couple it with minoxidil, get some nizoral and see if that sorts out your itch. At this stage hair shedding is to be expected and the relationship between an itch/oily skin an finasteride as extremely unclear....

 

[thedarkcolor]

That's still only 42 days at the very most, assuming you started on the 1st of December. After 42 days you should expect shedding and you should certainly not expect regrowth so soon.
You're experiencing three things right now:
1. Hair loss.
2. An itch.
3. Oily skin/acne.

To address them in order..

1. At this stage you should expect hair loss, shedding is normal. There is no reason to believe this is anything but a finasteride shed.
2. This itch is more an anecdotal symptom of male pattern baldness than proven evidence of it. It is very common so it is a bit worrying, there are other factors that can cause an itch though... Do you use Nizoral? Alpecin? Maybe you should try, see if they help. It may be anecdotal evidence that your finasteride isn't working, but no way in hell have you built up "immunity" to finasteride, it's just not possible.
3. Oily skin is another anecdotal symptom of DHT, there may be a relationship between it and male pattern baldness though it's far from direct or concrete. It's certainly a potential indication that your finasteride isn't working or you got some bad finasteride, but it's far from evidence of it.

If you can take the sides then just stick with it for another 4 months, see if they subside, give finasteride a chance to work, couple it with minoxidil, get some nizoral and see if that sorts out your itch. At this stage hair shedding is to be expected and the relationship between an itch/oily skin an finasteride as extremely unclear....

Yeah, I use prescription 2% nizoral 2-3 times a week. And it provides temporary help. I also wash my face with 10% benzoyl peroxide soap called PanOxyl. I've used both of these for probably the last 10 years to keep my acne/scalp itch at bay. Even before I began balding.

The itch has become unbearable. If both oily skin and anecdotal evidence that fun is not doing it's job, I'm thinking I should maybe try Dutasteride and see what happens.

 

[Dench57]

Oily skin, acne and male pattern baldness itch are not a good sign when using Finasteride (I had the same reaction). It's a "hyperandrogenic" response, though I'm still yet to figure out what is actually happening. Its an idiosyncratic reaction and, from what I've read, usually means a bad response the drug, hairwise. The "good" responders being those who report less oil, less acne, less itch. Having said that, I would advise you to continue with it since you've only been on it for such a short time. It may just be the boost in Test, or something else that is yet to "balance out". As long as you're not getting intolerable sides you should give it at least 6 months.

 

[thedarkcolor]

Oily skin, acne and male pattern baldness itch are not a good sign when using Finasteride (I had the same reaction). It's a "hyperandrogenic" response, though I'm still yet to figure out what is actually happening. Its an idiosyncratic reaction and, from what I've read, usually means a bad response the drug, hairwise. The "good" responders being those who report less oil, less acne, less itch. Having said that, I would advise you to continue with it since you've only been on it for such a short time. It may just be the boost in Test, or something else that is yet to "balance out". As long as you're not getting intolerable sides you should give it at least 6 months.

Hey Dench,

Thanks for the reply man. I had posted a thread here some months back, and I remember we had connected on similar stories...

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...ide-this-time-at-25mg!-Still-got-side-effects!

A hyperandrogenic reaction, that's for sure. I'm pretty sure these things mean I'm having a poor reaction to the drug and my DHT is being upregulated or increased. Are you still on finasteride, and if so how's everything going for you? The pain and itching is so constant that I can't have a normal day anymore. It's really gotten that bad, and I'm taking 1mg per day.

I'm going to try my hardest to stay on the drug for at least 6 months, but with the amount of hairloss, itch, and acne it's pretty hard. I used to have a clear face and now I'm embarrassed to go to work or go outside because I'm a 26 year old who looks like I'm going through puberty.

I suppose this is my response to the previous thread, where I'm reporting my journey. When I first started finasteride at extremely small doses, the itch went away. But the side effects hit me, so I had to microdose. It just seems like overnight something happened where it doesn't effect me anymore since I have no "finasteride" side effects anymore and all of these androgen sensitivity side effects have returned, even though I've upped the dose.

 

[Dench57]

Ah yeah now I remember. Well I took 0.5mg-0.25mg for 3 months. I dropped finasteride nearly a year ago now. The oily skin, increased libido/energy and acne subsided within a month or two of stopping the drug, but the burning/itch/pain remains unchanged to this day, so I think its probably permanent. Therefore I can't really advise you whether its best to quit or not. Do feel free to PM me or let me know if you decide to continue, I would be very interested to know how you get on.

 

[alexpie2]

I do not understand the logic of continuing the use of the drug if you are worried about the sides. Your body is getting sides for a reason, and most likely it is having a negative effect on you. It's like saying "This food made me sick, so I'm gonna eat more of it!" Many people agree that if you get sides, you should stop. There is no reason in believing that everything will magically get better if you continue to use the drug that gave you the sides in the first place.

Now, I am all for finasteride if it gave you no sides to begin with. Unless there are any outside factors that may give you these sides (other medications, allergies, etc), I advise you to get off finasteride unless you are willing to put up with the sides for decreased hair loss.

 

[Wolf Pack]

With Alex on this. You can attempt to ride out sides the first time (sometimes they disappear with continued use) but you have had quite a few attempts now. Unfortunately I really think you should look into alternatives. If your body can't handle something, don't force it.

 

[thedarkcolor]

I think I've figured out the issue. My finasteride is in the bottle the pharmacy gave me with the cap on it. However I keep this bottle in my bathroom on a shelf. I'm thinking moisture/humidity from my shower has ruined pills. Yesterday my head itched so freaking bad and my left temple has receded at least a half of an inch within the last month. Today my libido has shot up 60% at least. On top of that, I tried taking two 1mg pills in one day. One in the morning and one in the evening, and I felt no side effects.

Pretty sure my pills are no good anymore, and so I've put another order in with the pharmacy to pick up tomorrow. I'm anticipating that when I take a whole pill, as I've done for the last week...I'll get full blown side effects and be back at square one.

 

[ZoSo1981]

That sounds scary.

 

[abcdefg]

I dont know I would think increased oil, acne and that kind of thing was from the spike in T. IMO stuff like this is some people are more sensitive to the T level changes than others. Assuming I guess your pills worked, and your DHT levels are actually lower. A lot of this stuff like acne is not thing X causes it. Its multiple things, but its largely androgen controlled I think. The issue is you dont know how important T is verses DHT or whatever other hormones play into that. So you will never know just guess. Do androgen receptors adapt over time or over multiple restarts back onto finasteride? No one really knows those answers.

 

[jthirsk]

I do not understand the logic of continuing the use of the drug if you are worried about the sides. Your body is getting sides for a reason, and most likely it is having a negative effect on you. It's like saying "This food made me sick, so I'm gonna eat more of it!" Many people agree that if you get sides, you should stop. There is no reason in believing that everything will magically get better if you continue to use the drug that gave you the sides in the first place.

Now, I am all for finasteride if it gave you no sides to begin with. Unless there are any outside factors that may give you these sides (other medications, allergies, etc), I advise you to get off finasteride unless you are willing to put up with the sides for decreased hair loss.

Hi Alex, what would be according to you a reasonable period to put up with the side effects when starting on finasteride ? I've been on finasteride for two months, with side effects ranging from low libido (gone, morning wood!) to mood swings.

I was thinking to maybe going up to three months to see if the effects disappear, but I'm starting to think I might stop before its too late..

 

[wakka12]

With Alex on this. You can attempt to ride out sides the first time (sometimes they disappear with continued use) but you have had quite a few attempts now. Unfortunately I really think you should look into alternatives. If your body can't handle something, don't force it.

Its normal for side effects to subside after continued use, its much more likely this occurred than you built up an immunity in such a short space of time. Everyone on this forum is much too paranoid for their own good