How to maximize result of DHT blockers and deny side effects

[I_Hate_DHT]

hmm.. just checked and you are already in the proven treatments though.. it's hard to evaluate that way. If you have results after starting a diet, how will you know it was due of your diet and not due of your treatments? Tricky...

 

[HairLessGR]

I could tell you in short that i consume no refined food. Imagine i never eat any mc donalds and stuff nor i open any tins. Thankfully i grew up in a country where ketchup wasn't invented until early 80's and while modern guys have americanized their diet so much i have managed to resist.
I go for season stuff, biological most of the time, no saturated oils, some carbs, some proteins, i don't exlude anything but in a modest fashion.
I don't even consume sugar as i prefer honey.
I cook regularly using no processed or refined ingredients...even my juice comes from squeezed organic fruit.
A real "mediteranean mamma's" diet to cut it short.
Not every day of course, but you get the picture.
And while i feel great, i've seen better hair on other people's heads.

I doubt i've been much helpful Tomas, or have i?

 

[HairLessGR]

Sorry i didn't see the rest of your earlier post where you have a list of food.
You were reading my mind as this is exactly what i follow.
Plus i try to consume as much tomatoes and bio tomato paste as possible due to the beneficial effect.
As for drinks rarely and only beer and red wine.

 

[tomas99]

hmm.. just checked and you are already in the proven treatments though.. it's hard to evaluate that way. If you have results after starting a diet, how will you know it was due of your diet and not due of your treatments? Tricky...

Yes it is really possible that Spectral and finasteride will reverse my hairloss but I dont believe in reverse on this, only stop for some time and slow down.

But, do you know someone that use finasteride for years and completely stop hairloss? Usually, I hear from these guys "it worked well for me, I have slowed it down very much, receeded little bit but I am OK with that but now I start loosing rapidly after 5 years". This is exactly where I want to be thus I want to fight with male pattern baldness from every possible way.

Do you know that liver regulate all hormones in body? If your liver is in absolutely perfect condition (with no stones), it should help sooo much.

Have anyone tried liver cleanses like this one? http://www.healingdaily.com/liver-detoxification/liver-flush.htm

Btw. the proper function of your liver, kidney and colon and fantastic diet could be the important factor which can help on its own (or together with finasteride) to really stop and reverse your hairloss. It is how I see it. I think it is only one success that will make me, and anyone happy. I don't want to slow it and want how I am still losing. I want to stay calm about my hair's future. I have spend many times on studies and if nothing, all this crap as you think should not hurt at least (I hope so ) I use finasteride because it should help a lot and it is just one pill, so another Ace in the game. Ace is great card but with only one or two, you can still lose the play easily, so I am trying to achieve some kind of poker :lol:

No offence to you, this is my opinion and those things about diet I can back up with studies (e.g. inflammation studies).

 

[tomas99]

Sorry i didn't see the rest of your earlier post where you have a list of food.
You were reading my mind as this is exactly what i follow.
Plus i try to consume as much tomatoes and bio tomato paste as possible due to the beneficial effect.
As for drinks rarely and only beer and red wine.

Well OK. And what is your situation (age, speed of losing hair and actual degree of hair loss)?

And one question, I guess that on this diet, you have absolutely no acne?

 

[tomas99]

Once again about liver cleanses which is interesting stuff. Healthy liver is one of the most important for MPBers.

http://www.4optimallife.com/Liver-Cleanse-And-Detoxification-Procedures.html

At least 80% of people older then 30 have intrahepatic stones, that we call "gallstones" as there is no big difference between stones inside the liver and stones inside the gall bladder.

Liver /GB cleanse is single MOST powerful way to improve your health in JUST 24 hrs.

90% of people have gallstones
80% of people do not know that they have gallstones
50% of children have gallstones
Approximately 80% of all gallstones show no symptoms and may remain "silent" for years.
More than 90 % of Americans and people in developing countries will, in their life, develop some of these problems: Acne, Colitis, Heart diseases, Leukemia, Crohn's disease, Irritable bowel syndrome, Tumors, Allergies, Arthritis, Eczema, Psoriasis, Cancer, AIDS.

and I can add that you can link male pattern baldness near to these diesases....

http://home.bluegrass.net/~jclark/liver_cleanse.htm

The most important factors involved in dealing with all diseases of the human organism are liver and gall bladder congestion. In fact medical doctors have found that in all serious diseases, particularly cancer, the liver was in extremely poor condition.

I am not saying that if everyone would have perfect diet and perfect overall health, there would be no MBP. But I bet that those with male pattern baldness would be in much better condition with hair and some of male pattern baldness would never or later developed.

For more search liver flush or liver cleanse.

 

[HairLessGR]

i am 35. i had complete coverage with visible crown thinning since high school which remained still with slow deterioration over the years due to probably the use of finasteride (10years now). When 14 months ago i realised the crown thinning was really obvious i started minoxidil. i gained it all back and more! but all i gained in 11 months i lost in the last 3. I am back to where i was, though it's still ok. Ask me in a couple of months though. If this shedding lasts a little longer i'm in real trouble!

 

[Ray777]

Does finasteride inhibit 5-alpha ? If so is there anything I can take to inhibit aromatase so when I take my finasteride I don't get brain fog. thanks in advance

 

[jackstraw419]

i am 35. i had complete coverage with visible crown thinning since high school which remained still with slow deterioration over the years due to probably the use of finasteride (10years now). When 14 months ago i realised the crown thinning was really obvious i started minoxidil. i gained it all back and more! but all i gained in 11 months i lost in the last 3. I am back to where i was, though it's still ok. Ask me in a couple of months though. If this shedding lasts a little longer i'm in real trouble!

from my understanding minoxidil works pretty similiar to the herb, curcumin, which they can block TGF receptors. and also herbs are prone to less hairloss.

using minoxidil is like going to cram school since its trying to force the hair to grow. if the hair is too weak and cannot withstand the pressure, it will fall out. hairloss must be attacked at all fronts, not only DHT. other nasty stuff like cytochrome pkc, tnf and capcase are needed to be taken care of. rite now, i am basically using several herbs to counter those effects.

 

[tomas99]

Does finasteride inhibit 5-alpha ? If so is there anything I can take to inhibit aromatase so when I take my finasteride I don't get brain fog. thanks in advance

http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-forums ... =1&t=15128

Here you can find it. DIM, 7 HMR, Pomegranate, Resveratrol, Grape Seed etc.

 

[tomas99]

i am 35. i had complete coverage with visible crown thinning since high school which remained still with slow deterioration over the years due to probably the use of finasteride (10years now). When 14 months ago i realised the crown thinning was really obvious i started minoxidil. i gained it all back and more! but all i gained in 11 months i lost in the last 3. I am back to where i was, though it's still ok. Ask me in a couple of months though. If this shedding lasts a little longer i'm in real trouble!

from my understanding minoxidil works pretty similiar to the herb, curcumin, which they can block TGF receptors. and also herbs are prone to less hairloss.

using minoxidil is like going to cram school since its trying to force the hair to grow. if the hair is too weak and cannot withstand the pressure, it will fall out. hairloss must be attacked at all fronts, not only DHT. other nasty stuff like cytochrome pkc, tnf and capcase are needed to be taken care of. rite now, i am basically using several herbs to counter those effects.

Where did you find that minoxidil blocks TGF-beta? If it would to, it would stop regression, but it does not.... I think it works on different way. But curcumin is good idea agains inflammation. So is capsaicin cream or adding capsaicin powder into I dont know e.g. Retin-A cream. It should help with regression and also it should help to treat damaged cells somehow. But it is not wise to overate with Capsaicin as follicles then could be filled by this instance.

 

[jackstraw419]

i am 35. i had complete coverage with visible crown thinning since high school which remained still with slow deterioration over the years due to probably the use of finasteride (10years now). When 14 months ago i realised the crown thinning was really obvious i started minoxidil. i gained it all back and more! but all i gained in 11 months i lost in the last 3. I am back to where i was, though it's still ok. Ask me in a couple of months though. If this shedding lasts a little longer i'm in real trouble!

from my understanding minoxidil works pretty similiar to the herb, curcumin, which they can block TGF receptors. and also herbs are prone to less hairloss.

using minoxidil is like going to cram school since its trying to force the hair to grow. if the hair is too weak and cannot withstand the pressure, it will fall out. hairloss must be attacked at all fronts, not only DHT. other nasty stuff like cytochrome pkc, tnf and capcase are needed to be taken care of. rite now, i am basically using several herbs to counter those effects.

Where did you find that minoxidil blocks TGF-beta? If it would to, it would stop regression, but it does not.... I think it works on different way. But curcumin is good idea agains inflammation. So is capsaicin cream or adding capsaicin powder into I dont know e.g. Retin-A cream. It should help with regression and also it should help to treat damaged cells somehow. But it is not wise to overate with Capsaicin as follicles then could be filled by this instance.

i know i have read something between minoxidil and TGf somewhere. here is it. inhibiting or downregulating TGF-b is one of its function besides diluating its follicle poles.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=32425

 

[tomas99]

the most plausible explanation proposed here

It seems it is not certain. And if it does, it is not know how much it inhibits TGF-beta. But there are many other TGF-beta inhibitors or reduceres that are usually proven to work in vitro.[/i]

 

[jackstraw419]

curcumin looks promising but its only good for blocking tfg-beta1. the main concerns is that tgf-beta2 is whats causing most of the problems and is responsible for most of the work before leading to the caspase reaction.

 

[tomas99]

Hair cycle control by estrogens: catagen induction via estrogen receptor (ER)-alpha is checked by ER beta signaling.


Department of Dermatology, University Hospital Hamburg-Eppendorf, University of Hamburg, Martinistr. 52, D-20246 Hamburg, Germany.

Although 17beta-estradiol (E2) is recognized as a potent hair growth modulator, our knowledge of estrogen function, signaling, and target genes in hair biology is still very limited. Between the two recognized estrogen receptors (ERs), ER alpha and ER beta, only ER alpha had been detected in murine skin. Here we show that ER alpha, ER beta, and ER beta ins are all expressed throughout the murine hair cycle, both at the protein and RNA level, but show distinct expression patterns. We confirm that topical E2 arrests murine pelage hair follicles in telogen and demonstrate that E2 is a potent inducer of premature catagen development. The ER antagonist ICI 182.780 does not induce anagen prematurely but accelerates anagen development and wave spreading in female mice. ER beta knockout mice display accelerated catagen development along with an increase in the number of apoptotic hair follicle keratinocytes. This suggests that, contrary to previous concepts, ER beta does indeed play a significant role in murine hair growth control: whereas the catagen-promoting properties of E2 are mediated via ER alpha, ER beta mainly may function as a silencer of ER alpha action in hair biology.

These findings illustrate the complexity of hair growth modulation by estrogens and suggest that one key to more effective hair growth manipulation with ER ligands lies in the use of selective ER alpha or -beta antagonists/agonists. Our study also underscores that the hair cycling response to estrogens offers an ideal model for studying the controls and dynamics of wave propagation in biological systems.

PMID: 15591132 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Still believe that Estrogens have no negative effect on hair growth?

 

[docj077]

Hair cycle control by estrogens: catagen induction via estrogen receptor (ER)-alpha is checked by ER beta signaling.


Department of Dermatology, University Hospital Hamburg-Eppendorf, University of Hamburg, Martinistr. 52, D-20246 Hamburg, Germany.

Although 17beta-estradiol (E2) is recognized as a potent hair growth modulator, our knowledge of estrogen function, signaling, and target genes in hair biology is still very limited. Between the two recognized estrogen receptors (ERs), ER alpha and ER beta, only ER alpha had been detected in murine skin. Here we show that ER alpha, ER beta, and ER beta ins are all expressed throughout the murine hair cycle, both at the protein and RNA level, but show distinct expression patterns. We confirm that topical E2 arrests murine pelage hair follicles in telogen and demonstrate that E2 is a potent inducer of premature catagen development. The ER antagonist ICI 182.780 does not induce anagen prematurely but accelerates anagen development and wave spreading in female mice. ER beta knockout mice display accelerated catagen development along with an increase in the number of apoptotic hair follicle keratinocytes. This suggests that, contrary to previous concepts, ER beta does indeed play a significant role in murine hair growth control: whereas the catagen-promoting properties of E2 are mediated via ER alpha, ER beta mainly may function as a silencer of ER alpha action in hair biology.

These findings illustrate the complexity of hair growth modulation by estrogens and suggest that one key to more effective hair growth manipulation with ER ligands lies in the use of selective ER alpha or -beta antagonists/agonists. Our study also underscores that the hair cycling response to estrogens offers an ideal model for studying the controls and dynamics of wave propagation in biological systems.

PMID: 15591132 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

Still believe that Estrogens have no negative effect on hair growth?

Depends upon whether or not the estrogens are binding to the ER alpha or the ER beta receptor.

 

[Bryan]

Still believe that Estrogens have no negative effect on hair growth?

It depends on what kind of hair growth you're talking about, my friend (body hair, or scalp hair).

 

[dresden]

How much do you spend each month to get all that stuff, vitamins seed extracts etc?
Where do you buy it from?
i checked some prices online and i'd say it costs like 50$ a month!

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

Still believe that Estrogens have no negative effect on hair growth?

It depends on what kind of hair growth you're talking about, my friend (body hair, or scalp hair).

Bryan....lets just *assume* he means scalp hair...

 

[Bryan]

Still believe that Estrogens have no negative effect on hair growth?

It depends on what kind of hair growth you're talking about, my friend (body hair, or scalp hair).

Bryan....lets just *assume* he means scalp hair...

And yet oddly enough, he cited a MOUSE study prior to asking his question! :wink: