How important is diet? Could a change improve anything?

[wellheweare456]

Hey. So I'm 23 and have quite aggressive loss for my age.

But also, I have always had an awful diet, very poor nutrition and I drink way too much (like 50+ units a week).

I know this doesn't cause hair loss and would not reverse it, which is why for 6 months I've been on the big 3 + micro needling. Since this, my hair has not got any better or worse, just stable.

However, I am wondering if I can expect any improvement if I change my diet? Stop drinking and start eating nutritionally?

Also, do you think if I have not seen improvement after 6 months of big 3 then it's too late to believe I will over the next few months.

Many thanks

 

[wellheweare456]

Bump

 

[Ollie]

your diet can contribute to the ‘health’ of your hair appearance wise . However alteration of your diet won’t actually change the progression of your Androgenetic Alopecia unfortunately

 

[RobySul]

Sometimes people don't realise what a big impact diet and food have on our bodies. So yeah, you can expect that.

 

[OtyMac]

I think also if we assume the gut microbiome is somewhat responsible for Androgenetic Alopecia then that microbiome was established many years ago.
This is probably not an overnight fix on the gut microbiome and may take years to get things back in order.

There are an estimated 39 TRILLION bacteria, fungi and viruses that compose the gut microbiome. Even if we take a probiotic with 10-20 BILLION CFU per day that would mean it would take about at 20 million CFU/day about 2000 days or 6 years to completely replace the 39 trillion. Problem is that most of the probiotic won't make it to the large intestine where we need it and then there are competing bacteria(perhaps hostile) battling for the same micronutrients we want the good bacteria to have.

Probiotics are inflammatory also if the small intestine is "leaky" because these bacteria escape into the bloodstream where we don't want them.

SBO is the way to go...and not probiotics.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/regrowing-real-hair.7916/

Why Soil-Based Probiotics Are Best for SIBO

One of the most common questions I’m asked is “what are the best probiotics for SIBO?” You might be surprised to learn that if you have SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth), your regular probiotic for gut health could actually exacerbate

www.amymyersmd.com

Here is something about Parkinsons, but what happened about a decade ago is developing the symptoms they have today.

Gut microbiota, 1013 new pieces in the Parkinson's disease puzzle - PubMed

Current evidence suggests that there are alterations of gut microbiota in Parkinson's disease, but the exact nature of these changes is not established. Future larger studies should assess gut microbiota in Parkinson's disease covering diverse geographical regions, ethnicities, disease stages...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gastrointestinal dysfunction is highly prevalent in Parkinson's disease and may precede motor symptoms by more than a decade. It has been proposed that the neurodegenerative cascade may actually be initiated in the gut with subsequent spreading to the brain and that gut microbiota could be involved in this process


Women and men's gut microbiomes diverge at puberty and women develop a more adolescent microbiome which is probably alot less inflammatory.

Sex, Microbes, and Polycystic Ovary Syndrome - PubMed

Recent studies have shown that sex and sex steroids influence the composition of the gut microbiome. These studies also indicate that steroid regulation of the gut microbiome may play a role in pathological situations of hormonal excess, such as PCOS. Indeed, studies demonstrated that PCOS is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[OtyMac]

This study below somewhat contradicts what I just said about it would take time to reverse hair loss. It is what it is, I can take the truth either way. But what is interesting is that bacillus subtillus is what the guy took in his SBO pills in my above post. The constituent that grew hair invivo was identified as poly-y-glutamic acid.

Do Kimchi and Cheonggukjang Probiotics as a Functional Food Improve Androgenetic Alopecia? A Clinical Pilot Study

Probiotic supplementation demonstrates beneficial effects on serum lipid profiles. We hypothesized that probiotics could benefit patients presenting with alopecia, secondary to improved blood flow to the scalp.Our study included men with stage II to V ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Choi et al [5] reported that ultra-high molecular weight poly-γ-glutamic acid (UHMW γ-PGA) isolated from Bacillus subtilis (used to ferment cheonggukjang) could improve hair growth in vivo

In vivo hair growth promotion effects of ultra-high molecular weight poly-γ-glutamic acid from Bacillus subtilis (Chungkookjang) - PubMed

We investigated the effect of ultra-high molecular weight poly-γ-glutamic acid (UHMW γ-PGA) on hair loss in vitro and in vivo. 5-Alpha reductase is an enzyme that metabolizes the male hormone testosterone into dihydrotestosterone. By performing an in vitro experiment to analyze the inhibitory...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Poly-gamma-glutamic acid from Bacillus subtilis upregulates pro-inflammatory cytokines while inhibiting NLRP3, NLRC4 and AIM2 inflammasome activation - Cellular & Molecular Immunology

Poly-gamma-glutamic acid (γ-PGA) is a natural, edible and non-toxic polymer synthesized by Bacillus subtilis and is suggested as a safe biomaterial for the use in hydrogels and vaccine adjuvants. However, the effect of γ-PGA on inflammasome activation has not yet been studied in macrophages...

www.nature.com

In this study, we observed that γ-PGA attenuated NLRP3, NLRC4 and AIM2 inflammasome activation, whereas it upregulated pro-inflammatory cytokine expression in human and murine macrophages. Although γ-PGA had conflicting effects on cytokine production and maturation, it clearly alleviated the severity of lipopolysaccharide-induced endotoxin shock in an animal model. Thus, we suggest γ-PGA as a candidate to control inflammasome-mediated disorders.

In this study, we investigated the effects of γ-PGA on inflammasome activation. γ-PGA attenuated IL-1β and IL-18 secretion, which are readouts of inflammasome activation, in the presence of NLRP3, NLRC4 and AIM2 triggers

Antioxidant and gastrointestinal cytoprotective effect of edible polypeptide poly-γ-glutamic acid - PubMed

The antioxidant effects and cytoprotection of the poly-γ-glutamic acid (γ-PGA) were investigated. γ-PGA with a molecular weight of ~400 kDa showed hydroxyl radical (OH^•) averting capacity (HORAC), 85.2% at 1 mg/mL, which was caused by the chelation of transition metal ions and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The antioxidant effects and cytoprotection of the poly-γ-glutamic acid (γ-PGA) were investigated. γ-PGA with a molecular weight of ~400 kDa showed hydroxyl radical (OH•) averting capacity (HORAC), 85.2% at 1 mg/mL, which was caused by the chelation of transition metal ions and scavenging hydrogen peroxide. Moreover, this γ-PGA showed 94.1% superoxide anion radical (O2•-) scavenging and 96.0% lipid peroxidation inhibition activity at the same concentrations


Here is a hint at a dosage:

Effects of poly-gamma-glutamic acid and vitamin B6 supplements on sleep status: a randomized intervention study - PubMed

Clinical Research Information Service Identifier: KCT0005083.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

..supplementation of both γ-PGA 600 mg..


Search for IL17 inhibitors on HairLossTalk.com:

Sci-Hub | Poly-γ-glutamic Acid Suppresses Osteoclastogenesis in Human Osteoclast Precursors and Prevents Joint Damage in a Collagen-induced Murine Arthritis Model. Immunology Letters | 10.1016/j.imlet.2018.09.004

We found that γ-PGA inhibits osteoclast differentiation in human cultures in vitro. We
showed that γ-PGA also suppresses IL-1β, TNF-α, IL-6, and IL-17 in the joint tissues of CIA
mice. Inflammatory cytokines, including TNF-α, IL-1β, and IL-17, consistently increase
RANKL expression in both human and mouse synovial fibroblasts [29]. γ-PGA decreased
Th17 cell differentiation and IL-17 expression through the downregulation of RORγt and
STAT-3 and the upregulation of the STAT-3 inhibitor suppressor of cytokine signaling 3
(SOCS3) [10]

Sci-Hub | Oral administration of poly-γ-glutamic acid prevents the development of atopic dermatitis in NC/Nga mice. Experimental Dermatology, 22(8), 561–563 | 10.1111/exd.12198

Over time, the severity of dermatitis gradually increased in
the PBS-treated control group, whereas PGA(poly glutamic acid)-treated mice exhibited significantly lower levels of skin inflammation

Polyglutamic Acid Powder, 99+% Pure PGA, skincare ingredient, DIY Cosmetics | eBay

Polyglutamic Acid . Our Polyglutamic Acid has been assayed at over 99+% pure. It is water soluble and should be added to the water phase of your formulation.The suggested usage rate is 0.2 - 1%. This product is not intended to treat, cure, diagnose, or prevent any disease.

www.ebay.com

 

[wellheweare456]

your diet can contribute to the ‘health’ of your hair appearance wise . However alteration of your diet won’t actually change the progression of your Androgenetic Alopecia unfortunately

Thank you. Well I guess improved appearance would be better than nothing because especially over the last 6 months it has started to look really bad, I think partly due to always putting minoxidil in and using the Nizoral Shampoo which is quite drying.

 

[wellheweare456]

I think that diet and lifestyle changes for many people can probably have a slight effect on hair loss, but nothing really substantial.
If your diet really was awful, as you say, there might even be quite a significant effect, because in that case you may have had a deficiency or two.

The important thing is basically to make sure you don't have any deficiencies:
What nutrient deficiencies generally cause hair loss? (njfue.com)
Those can certainly make hair loss worse.

The other thing that's important is to get enough sleep.

But as said, diet and lifestyle usually can't change very much when it comes to hair loss.

Thank you, I'll definitely focus more on nutrition. Do you take a multi-vitamin or are they not effective? Does it need to just be from food?

 

[wellheweare456]

Sometimes people don't realise what a big impact diet and food have on our bodies. So yeah, you can expect that.

Well, hopefully! Only one way to find out I guess. And I guess as well aside from hair loss it's better to be healthy generally anyway.

 

[wellheweare456]

I think also if we assume the gut microbiome is somewhat responsible for Androgenetic Alopecia then that microbiome was established many years ago.
This is probably not an overnight fix on the gut microbiome and may take years to get things back in order.

There are an estimated 39 TRILLION bacteria, fungi and viruses that compose the gut microbiome. Even if we take a probiotic with 10-20 BILLION CFU per day that would mean it would take about at 20 million CFU/day about 2000 days or 6 years to completely replace the 39 trillion. Problem is that most of the probiotic won't make it to the large intestine where we need it and then there are competing bacteria(perhaps hostile) battling for the same micronutrients we want the good bacteria to have.

Probiotics are inflammatory also if the small intestine is "leaky" because these bacteria escape into the bloodstream where we don't want them.

SBO is the way to go...and not probiotics.

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/regrowing-real-hair.7916/

Why Soil-Based Probiotics Are Best for SIBO

One of the most common questions I’m asked is “what are the best probiotics for SIBO?” You might be surprised to learn that if you have SIBO (Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth), your regular probiotic for gut health could actually exacerbate

www.amymyersmd.com

Here is something about Parkinsons, but what happened about a decade ago is developing the symptoms they have today.

Gut microbiota, 1013 new pieces in the Parkinson's disease puzzle - PubMed

Current evidence suggests that there are alterations of gut microbiota in Parkinson's disease, but the exact nature of these changes is not established. Future larger studies should assess gut microbiota in Parkinson's disease covering diverse geographical regions, ethnicities, disease stages...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gastrointestinal dysfunction is highly prevalent in Parkinson's disease and may precede motor symptoms by more than a decade. It has been proposed that the neurodegenerative cascade may actually be initiated in the gut with subsequent spreading to the brain and that gut microbiota could be involved in this process


Women and men's gut microbiomes diverge at puberty and women develop a more adolescent microbiome which is probably alot less inflammatory.

Sex, Microbes, and Polycystic Ovary Syndrome - PubMed

Recent studies have shown that sex and sex steroids influence the composition of the gut microbiome. These studies also indicate that steroid regulation of the gut microbiome may play a role in pathological situations of hormonal excess, such as PCOS. Indeed, studies demonstrated that PCOS is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's all interesting, thank you, but I find it a bit complicated. What's the takeaway? I need to detox and be healthier and take a probiotic?

 

[OtyMac]

That's all interesting, thank you, but I find it a bit complicated. What's the takeaway? I need to detox and be healthier and take a probiotic?

Take a SBO especially with bacillus subtillus in it or take poly glutamic acid(which is the active in bacillus subtillus) directly at about 600 mg per day as in the sleep study.

 

[OtyMac]

This is interesting too about how a digestive order looks like on the surface to be causing his Androgenetic Alopecia. His identical twin does not have Crohn's and is not balding. I knew a guy also who had Crohn's and it absolutely looked like male pattern baldness. Could gut problems be driving Androgenetic Alopecia?

IBD and Male Pattern Baldness?

Hi. I have Crohns Disease and in the last few months I have experienced very rapid hair loss. The hair around my hairline has got shorter, thinner and isn't growing at all. A hair expert told me that it is the early stages of male pattern baldness and said the causes are normally genetic...

crohnsforum.com

 

[jjuliajul11]

Improving your diet will make you healthier, that's for sure

 

[mariawotters]

The appearance of your hair will change for sure if you eat right. Isn't that also good? I take care of my health and hair, so when I read https://doordash.pissedconsumer.com/review.html , I often order delivery of tasty but healthy food. Because I spend a lot of time at work, I don't have time to cook haha

 

[Capone]

A legume based diet will make your hair better but won’t stop hairloss.