How does finasteride (or duta) stop working? (or be less effective?)

[goulou]

Hello.
I've heard quite a few times the "finasteride becomes less effective after some time".
I'm having myself some trouble lately as my regimen which stopped totally my hairloss for 15 years doesn't seem to work anymore...

I see 3 options for this "finasteride becomes less effective" : it looses effectiveness because :
- DHT levels rise up
- DHT levels stay low but hair follicles become more fragile (or sensitive to DHT)
- none of these. Finasteride loosing effectiveness is bro science and isn't real.

Which of these do you think is right?
Is there a fourth option?

Thanks

 

[Selb]

I think people lean towards sensitivity going up as we age. Counteracted by upping your treatment with topical AR blockers or using dutasteride (which might hurt your hairline)

 

[Wisemiller]

The vast, VAST majority of guys with male pattern baldness will begin noticing their hair loss in their early-mid 30s. So what commonly happens is scared young guys jump on finasteride when they develop a mature hairline in their early 20s and then, right on cue, about 10 years later they begin losing hair like they were supposed to.

However, since they were on finasteride for the last 10 years, they believe that finasteride 'stopped' working when in reality it never worked to begin with. That is all.

 

[Selb]

The vast, VAST majority of guys with male pattern baldness will begin noticing their hair loss in their early-mid 30s. So what commonly happens is scared young guys jump on finasteride when they develop a mature hairline in their early 20s and then, right on cue, about 10 years later they begin losing hair like they were supposed to.

However, since they were on finasteride for the last 10 years, they believe that finasteride 'stopped' working when in reality it never worked to begin with. That is all.

I don’t buy that tbh. It’s a chemical that inhibit dht, and dht hurts hair. It’s as simple as that. Why wouldn’t it at least slow down hair loss?

 

[Wisemiller]

I don’t buy that tbh. It’s a chemical that inhibit dht, and dht hurts hair. It’s as simple as that. Why wouldn’t it at least slow down hair loss?

Studies have indicated that its better than nothing, but are largely inconclusive. Remember, there is no way of knowing when hair loss would stop without the drug so its hard to study. A lot of guys just stop at NW3/4 and can stay there for decades without medication.

In short, there is no such thing as a pill or lotion that prevents male pattern baldness.

 

[sonictemples]

Studies have indicated that its better than nothing, but are largely inconclusive. Remember, there is no way of knowing when hair loss would stop without the drug so its hard to study. A lot of guys just stop at NW3/4 and can stay there for decades without medication.

In short, there is no such thing as a pill or lotion that prevents male pattern baldness.

Finasteride and dutasteride are proven to stop and even slightly reverse hair loss in the majority of people.

 

[Selb]

Studies have indicated that its better than nothing, but are largely inconclusive. Remember, there is no way of knowing when hair loss would stop without the drug so its hard to study. A lot of guys just stop at NW3/4 and can stay there for decades without medication.

In short, there is no such thing as a pill or lotion that prevents male pattern baldness.

It might not be effective for everyone, especially in especially androgen sensitive areas like the temples, but you can take a look at twin studies where one twin takes finasteride for year vs the other who didn’t. It’s a huge difference. Of course the effectiveness varies

 

[crikey1980]

i agree with sonictemples,
DHT inhibitors like finesteride and dutasteride are not what they are made out to be, noticed hair loss at 27 got on dutasteride for 18 months no change still kept losing hair then changed to finesteride for 4 years again still losing, decided that finasteride and dutasteride pretty much didn't do anything so was on nothing for about 4 years... Kept losing hair but if anything at a slower rate, now back on finasteride for the last 7 years and I m still losing.
Ive still got a fullish head of hair and am Norwood 2.5 and my loss as been relatively slow but I honestly think if I'd not toached finasteride or dutasteride I would still have the same hair, in other words they have had no affect. Positive or negative

 

[sonictemples]

i agree with sonictemples,
DHT inhibitors like finesteride and dutasteride are not what they are made out to be, noticed hair loss at 27 got on dutasteride for 18 months no change still kept losing hair then changed to finesteride for 4 years again still losing, decided that finasteride and dutasteride pretty much didn't do anything so was on nothing for about 4 years... Kept losing hair but if anything at a slower rate, now back on finasteride for the last 7 years and I m still losing.
Ive still got a fullish head of hair and am Norwood 2.5 and my loss as been relatively slow but I honestly think if I'd not toached finasteride or dutasteride I would still have the same hair, in other words they have had no affect. Positive or negative

You would have less hair imo unless you are more sensitive to testosterone than DHT which I have never heard happening

 

[Selb]

i agree with sonictemples,
DHT inhibitors like finesteride and dutasteride are not what they are made out to be, noticed hair loss at 27 got on dutasteride for 18 months no change still kept losing hair then changed to finesteride for 4 years again still losing, decided that finasteride and dutasteride pretty much didn't do anything so was on nothing for about 4 years... Kept losing hair but if anything at a slower rate, now back on finasteride for the last 7 years and I m still losing.
Ive still got a fullish head of hair and am Norwood 2.5 and my loss as been relatively slow but I honestly think if I'd not toached finasteride or dutasteride I would still have the same hair, in other words they have had no affect. Positive or negative

When did your father bald? How bald is he and at what age did he get to that point? If you didn’t inherit from your dad, what about your maternal grandfather?

 

[Abomination]

You would have less hair imo unless you are more sensitive to testosterone than DHT which I have never heard happening

This guy still went bald with 0 DHT:

However I believe RU makes you go bald faster long term due increase sensitivity on androgen receptor.

 

[crikey1980]

Hi I'm not actually bald.... I'm 40 and probably have better hair than 70% of people my age but to answer your question...... Paternal side:dad Norwood 1 til his death at 61,grandad Norwood 0(ronald Reagan type hair) uncle Norwood 1.
Maternal side:grandad Norwood 4 at his death at 54
Uncle:norwood 2 til about age 50 now a diffuse 3 at 67
Great grandad, grandmother's dad Norwood 1.

 

[Abomination]

Hi I'm not actually bald.... I'm 40 and probably have better hair than 70% of people my age but to answer your question...... Paternal side:dad Norwood 1 til his death at 61,grandad Norwood 0(ronald Reagan type hair) uncle Norwood 1.
Maternal side:grandad Norwood 4 at his death at 54
Uncle:norwood 2 til about age 50 now a diffuse 3 at 67
Great grandad, grandmother's dad Norwood 1.

You didn't answer what's relevant: For how long you've been using RU and which dosage?

 

[crikey1980]

That's because I was answering selbs question and not yours.
I've been using RU58841 for 4 months along side finasteride..... First month I used anagenic pre mixed 5% at 2ml per day but got sides with nipple pain so then switched to making my own RU58841 in minoxidil at 5%,didnt get any sides with this and I believe its because regaine isn't a great carrier for RU58841.
Back on anagenic premade 5% for the last 3 weeks yes I get nipple pain but no sexual sides thank god(can still get it up for the wife).
Will get gyno surgery if it gets out of hand.

 

[Selb]

This guy still went bald with 0 DHT:

However I believe RU makes you go bald faster long term due increase sensitivity on androgen receptor.

Is there proof RU does this? It blocks the AR, so I’m not sure how that would affect sensitivity. Even if it does, maybe increasing dosage when you lose ground would counteract this.

 

[Selb]

Hi I'm not actually bald.... I'm 40 and probably have better hair than 70% of people my age but to answer your question...... Paternal side:dad Norwood 1 til his death at 61,grandad Norwood 0(ronald Reagan type hair) uncle Norwood 1.
Maternal side:grandad Norwood 4 at his death at 54
Uncle:norwood 2 til about age 50 now a diffuse 3 at 67
Great grandad, grandmother's dad Norwood 1.

Hmm so you may have inherited some balding from your maternal side. But going by the timelines, you were headed for Norwood 3ish anyways at age 50. I guess you’ll know if finasteride works if by that age you aren’t Norwood 3. Did you start finasteride when you were Norwood 1?

 

[crikey1980]

Probably a Norwood 1.5 when I started finesteride....... Yes I have baldness in the family but given my Immaculate paternal side and the fact that it could be a lot worse on the maternal side I actually think I should never go bald but who knows but I've defintley got male pattern baldness but I think 80% of men get male pattern baldness at sometime.

 

[Selb]

Probably a Norwood 1.5 when I started finesteride....... Yes I have baldness in the family but given my Immaculate paternal side and the fact that it could be a lot worse on the maternal side I actually think I should never go bald but who knows but I've defintley got male pattern baldness but I think 80% of men get male pattern baldness at sometime.

I guess at this point it’s kind of unknown how effective it’s been for you. If you did blood tests before and after finasteride maybe you can extrapolate but for now I think it’s safe to stay on your current regimen. 40 and with most of your hair = a win IMO

 

[telogen]

Is there proof RU does this? It blocks the AR, so I’m not sure how that would affect sensitivity. Even if it does, maybe increasing dosage when you lose ground would counteract this.

You can't just keep increasing the dose as the AR keeps upregulating.
You'll end up with side effects.
A possibly better way to go about it is to cycle off the use of AR antagonist for some time, and then cycle back on it.
This gives the body time to downregulate the AR.

 

[Equal Rights]

You can't just keep increasing the dose as the AR keeps upregulating.
You'll end up with side effects.
A possibly better way to go about it is to cycle off the use of AR antagonist for some time, and then cycle back on it.
This gives the body time to downregulate the AR.

The unfortunate part of AAs . We cant win boys. I imagine the loss will be ridiculous after upregulating your ARs so much and then dropping the AA. You think cycling different AAs will do anything? Or since they all do the same thing it wont matter