Help with topical finasteride side effects. with blood measurements

badnewsbearer

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So I have tried oral finasteride many times in many variations and dosages. 1.25mg, 1mg, 0.5mg, 0.25mg, 0.25mg EOD. I always got the same sexual side effects which are:
libido significantly reduced but that in itself is not the great issue, the biggest issue is the severe erectile dysfunction. not as in weaker erections but hard to even get blood in and erection subsides immediately when something is off. like an ad in the p**rn or just not being concentration is enough. no morning erections and erections without manual stimulation are impossible.


after reading some anecdotes that were quite positive I started topical finasteride. I stopped oral and switched to 0.025% topical. I was initially feeling that it might work out because while I totally agree there is systemic impact of topical finasteride, studies with this dose have suggested less DHT reduction even after a year on the drug(35% reduction with topical vs 55% with oral 1mg). however I had the exact same side effects and also in the same intensity. it is so odd to me that having less of a DHT reduction does not come with less sexual side effects.

I have to say I have not measured my DHT on the topical but will do so tomorrow morning. I did take measurements on the oral version and off of finasteride and will share them below:
reference range in brackets



oral finasteride 1mg:

DHT: 12.5 ng/dl (ref: 22-114)
total testosterone: 501ng/dl (ref: 270-1100)
free T: 11 ng/dl (ref: 6-18)
estradiol: 60ng/l (ref: 20-45)




no finasteride(baseline):

estradiol: 33 ng/l (almost doubled on oral finasteride and way out of reference range)
total testosterone: 435ng/dl
free T: 10 ng/dl
DHT: 28ng/dl (finasteride lowered DHT by 55% just like the study)

second baseline a year earlier:
total T: 580 ng/dl
free T: 20 nd/dl




I also did another one on 0.25mg oral finasteride:

estradiol: 55ng/dl
total T 580ng/dl
free T 20ng/dl

(no DHT measurement this time. but testosterone was much higher than other measurements, estradiol higher than baseline but lower than higher dose oral finasteride)



bottom line, these experiments have taught me nothing. I can kind of see why I am getting sexual side effects. my baseline DHT is at the bottom of the reference range which includes old men as well. my baseline estrogen is not as low as it should be considering my mid range total testosterone. so I am already mildly estrogenic baseline.

oral finasteride clearly reduced my DHT to levels far below the reference range. however at the same time my total testosterone is still mid range if not low. additionally my estrogen has spiked far exceeding the reference range in every test I did.



i will be interested to see the value for topical finasteride 0.025% but I already know I cannot tolerate it because I have severe sexual side effects again.


so to you, do you think there is any value in trying a different version of finasteride? sure there must be a concentration that does not kick my estrogen into total overdrive and doesnt affect DHT so much? its so unfortunate that I am balding so aggressive but everything seems to take place in the scalp, my scalp is highly androgenic but my body is extremely low in androgenicity. I am losing hope of finding a finasteride dose that does not cause any sexual side effects.

I read that some on reddit tried 0.01%, 0.005% and lower and still had sides. next idea would be a liposomal solution to minimize absorption and still do something about the obviously high scalp DHT levels. anybody had success with that and blood values to show? mazarella study has shown no serum DHT reduction however I am starting to doubt the validity of their study at this point.

thanks
 

badnewsbearer

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i lowered the dose to 0.01%, the dose from the mazarella study. still I have severe erectile dysfunction and no libido on this dose. it is beyond my understanding why the study can state "no serum DHT changes have been observed" in their study and I have such severe sides where it is obvious that finasteride must go systemic quite a lot
 

hudsonhawke

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Have you tried taking a break from finasteride and seeing if the libido gets better? Do you get any other sides like the gyno or depression?
 

badnewsbearer

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Have you tried taking a break from finasteride and seeing if the libido gets better? Do you get any other sides like the gyno or depression?
i have not done a break. I do not have any other side effects, physical or mental. just the lower libido and ED. I have lowered to 0.01% with 1-2 day breaks a week to avoid accumulation. at this point my dose is so low, I think my itch is coming back again. btw libido itself is not the problem, it is lower but still normal. the problem is that I cant keep an erection for even a few seconds without stimulation and its hard to get them too. I will do a blood test soon and then get off of finasteride and try again without having been on oral directly before. maybe there was some accumulation effect but I doubt it because it should have been replaced after 8 weeks topical
 

PRIMEN

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Because finasteride is such a poison for some people, including me.

I also tried different dosages, topical version, every other day, every third day, every fourth day, even once a week lol. Nothing works for me, I get the same side effects in the end.

You should try topical anti-androgens, Ru58841 or pyrilutamide. Your body won't tolerate finasteride and 5AR inhibition in general.
 

badnewsbearer

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Because finasteride is such a poison for some people, including me.

I also tried different dosages, topical version, every other day, every third day, every fourth day, even once a week lol. Nothing works for me, I get the same side effects in the end.

You should try topical anti-androgens, Ru58841 or pyrilutamide. Your body won't tolerate finasteride and 5AR inhibition in general.
this makes no sense biologically. finasteride is not some mysterious drug and when someone cannot tolerate it there is a biological reason for it. people just throwing out topical anti androgens as if they were products readily available on some market. you are literally putting an untested chemical from china brewed up in some shady lab in your body, every single day. people are worrying about prescription drugs made there and sold in the west but this is not that, its literally a black box.

the reason someone gets sides on finasteride is because their DHT and thus androgen estrogen balance gets out of what. there must be a dose where this does not happen. it does not make any sense to have the same side effects when your DHT is suppressed 75% vs 20% and your estrogen is up 100% vs just merely 20%. people on these forums try to make finasteride the single most mysterious drug on the planet, everything can happen, nothing makes sense
we only need to reduce it in the scalp, the delivery is the key here, no topical anti androgen will be side free for those suspeptible to it, it won't be any better with pyrilutamide for people who get sides with finasteride and not with RU either. because too much of the drug is delivered where it simply does not belong and too little to where it does.
 

hudsonhawke

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It may be that you need to fully get it out of your system, maybe a month - 6 months off finasteride to see if the erections get better.
 
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