Hello Old Friends. Embarking On Another Hairloss Journey...

[The Gardener]

Hey everyone!

I'm actually a long time member here who hasn't posted in like forever. But, given my situation I thought that I would post, and share my experience.

About a decade ago when I was in my mid 30's, my "normal" hairline started to take a hit to hair loss, as it rapidly receded to a "widow's peak" Norwood 3+. I combatted it with nizoral and Rogaine, which saved lots of hair and allowed me to retain a relatively full "widow's peak" look, and regained thickness in that area that allowed my hair to remain style-able and age-approproate.

After years, I kind of got lazy with the Rogaine... my hair got thinner, but luckily my hairline didn't recede much more. For someone in their late 30's, I had kind of readjusted my expectations, and my hair was still very stylable, and as someone a little bit older I had become more accepting of hair recession as it was a bit more age-appropriate now that I was older. I still had very good overall scalp coverage, and still was able to style my hair to look somewhat normal.

I'm now in my late 40s. And, in the past six months, male pattern baldness started to strike again. It had all the same symptoms as it did back in the day... burning itchy scalp, hair coming out by the handful, and the hairs on my "widows peak" vertex were becoming increasingly thin and curly. They were under hormonal attack.

So, six months ago, I got back on Rogaine and Nizoral seriously. BUT, even more distressingly, I noticed that itwas not only my frontal hair that was thinning, it was the entire crown area of my scalp. I was terrified to look in the mirror, and discovered that I was clearly seeing scalp through the thinner hairs on very top of my head. So, two months ago after noticing this I took the plunge and finally added Finsteride to my regime. I was scared to do this, because of the talk of the side effects.

After starting the Rogaine, I shedded like a mother f****r. I swear I shedded for an entire month, and my hairline looked totally ruined. It was really terrifying. I didn't know if it was the inevitable continuation of my male pattern baldness, or if it was a Rogaine shed.

I can say now after six months that it was a Rogaine shed... my frontal hair has come roaring back. Instead of growing an inch or so long, and then getting curly like pubic hair, it's now growing inches long. The corners of my forehead have kind of rounded out with some new growth.... the quality of this hair is still somewhat suspect, but cosmetically its a HUGE confidence booster in the regimen.

I'm only two months into finasteride, but I am hoping that it improves the quality of my hair in the crown and minimizes some of the "bare scalp poking through thin hair" look up there and also helps improve my crown look overall. At the very least, I hope the combination of the Big Three preserves my acceptable NW3 hairline, and prevents me from becoming a chrome dome.

Finasteride did give me some side effects... I swear from about after the first week, I did suffer a little less sensitivity with the pecker between my legs. I could still get hard, but there was a little more effort required to get there. At about the start of the second month I SWEAR it was a complete 180... I was getting hard just rubbing against my pants, and had HUGE discharge when I pleasured myself. Now, it seems that it's kind of rebalanced and things are back to normal. This is reassuring!

Anyways, if anyone has any questions or wants to hear any more, shoot me a message. The journey begins again! Stay strong everyone!

 

[Alphalete]

Hello. Thanks for sharing Mind posting pictures?
Also, where do you purchase your Finasteride?

 

[UncleMort]

I know what you mean about getting blase about keeping up the fight

There is a part of all of us that wants to give up and live in a van

Actually, i DID that myself for awhile

 

[The Gardener]

Alphalete, I'll try to take some pics and post as soon as I can.

I got my finasteride here from the HairLossTalk.com shop, Finpecia. If anyone has any advice in this regard I'd like to hear... despite it being a generic, the fact that I had some side effects was somewhat encouraging as it lead me to think that its having the desired chemical reaction in my blood.

 

[Alphalete]

Alphalete, I'll try to take some pics and post as soon as I can.

I got my finasteride here from the HairLossTalk.com shop, Finpecia. If anyone has any advice in this regard I'd like to hear... despite it being a generic, the fact that I had some side effects was somewhat encouraging as it lead me to think that its having the desired chemical reaction in my blood.

Thanks a lot for the answer. I tried checking out the HairLossTalk shop, but all that showed up was error when I clicked on Generic Propecia. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[abovedagame]

Hey gardener. I'm an old timer too and remember many of your posts. Your humor and stories were always a very good read. I pictured u as a younger Charlie sheen from the show two and a half men lol.

Back then I think u were using topical spironolactone and Xandrox correct? Did u drop those in favor of rogaine and nizoral once dr lee was shut down? Also u were a big proponent of folligen and copper peptides no?

You're actually the one that turned me to copper peptides for facial care. Still using those?

Hope the finasteride turns things around for u. Please share pics when you get a chance.

Btw do u have any recommendations for itchy scalp? Already using nizoral.

 

[DoctorHouse]

Hey everyone!

I'm actually a long time member here who hasn't posted in like forever. But, given my situation I thought that I would post, and share my experience.

About a decade ago when I was in my mid 30's, my "normal" hairline started to take a hit to hair loss, as it rapidly receded to a "widow's peak" Norwood 3+. I combatted it with nizoral and Rogaine, which saved lots of hair and allowed me to retain a relatively full "widow's peak" look, and regained thickness in that area that allowed my hair to remain style-able and age-approproate.

After years, I kind of got lazy with the Rogaine... my hair got thinner, but luckily my hairline didn't recede much more. For someone in their late 30's, I had kind of readjusted my expectations, and my hair was still very stylable, and as someone a little bit older I had become more accepting of hair recession as it was a bit more age-appropriate now that I was older. I still had very good overall scalp coverage, and still was able to style my hair to look somewhat normal.

I'm now in my late 40s. And, in the past six months, male pattern baldness started to strike again. It had all the same symptoms as it did back in the day... burning itchy scalp, hair coming out by the handful, and the hairs on my "widows peak" vertex were becoming increasingly thin and curly. They were under hormonal attack.

So, six months ago, I got back on Rogaine and Nizoral seriously. BUT, even more distressingly, I noticed that itwas not only my frontal hair that was thinning, it was the entire crown area of my scalp. I was terrified to look in the mirror, and discovered that I was clearly seeing scalp through the thinner hairs on very top of my head. So, two months ago after noticing this I took the plunge and finally added Finsteride to my regime. I was scared to do this, because of the talk of the side effects.

After starting the Rogaine, I shedded like a mother f****r. I swear I shedded for an entire month, and my hairline looked totally ruined. It was really terrifying. I didn't know if it was the inevitable continuation of my male pattern baldness, or if it was a Rogaine shed.

I can say now after six months that it was a Rogaine shed... my frontal hair has come roaring back. Instead of growing an inch or so long, and then getting curly like pubic hair, it's now growing inches long. The corners of my forehead have kind of rounded out with some new growth.... the quality of this hair is still somewhat suspect, but cosmetically its a HUGE confidence booster in the regimen.

I'm only two months into finasteride, but I am hoping that it improves the quality of my hair in the crown and minimizes some of the "bare scalp poking through thin hair" look up there and also helps improve my crown look overall. At the very least, I hope the combination of the Big Three preserves my acceptable NW3 hairline, and prevents me from becoming a chrome dome.

Finasteride did give me some side effects... I swear from about after the first week, I did suffer a little less sensitivity with the pecker between my legs. I could still get hard, but there was a little more effort required to get there. At about the start of the second month I SWEAR it was a complete 180... I was getting hard just rubbing against my pants, and had HUGE discharge when I pleasured myself. Now, it seems that it's kind of rebalanced and things are back to normal. This is reassuring!

Anyways, if anyone has any questions or wants to hear any more, shoot me a message. The journey begins again! Stay strong everyone!

I remember you back in the day. Welcome back. Fighting hair loss is a never ending battle.

 

[Alphalete]

Hello. How's it going? Update us

 

[Alphalete]

Guys!! Instead of taking these supplements that only work in waves and gives you side effects, think about taking the natural approach! My names Ashley Luden and I'm a market partner with an amazing hair care company that specializes in anti aging hair care, and major regrowth! Our products were devolped by two Princeton students who had a plan to help their loved onces grow back there hair they lost in chemo! AND THEY SUCCEEDED! All my products are clinically tested, scientifically proven, all natural treatments to bring your hair back and keep it coming in just as thick as you'd like!

PLEASE REACH OUT TO ME AND LET ME HELP YOU!!
DM : AshleyLuden
email: ashleyluden@gmail.com

LUL nice one

 

[abovedagame]

Whered this guy go? Too cool for ur HairLossTalk.com brethren?

 

[The Gardener]

Hey man, abovedogame...

Sorry, been slow to post as I've been prepping to move, doing a search of new flats, and will be moving to a new neighborhood in LA next week.

I'll write an updated status and my thoughts of the treatments in the next week as soon as I get settled.

 

[abovedagame]

Thanks looking forward to it

 

[The Gardener]

Update... Month 7 of Rogaine, month 3 of Finasteride.

The first little nugget of experience I need to impart is... the Rogaine Shed... it's for real.

A decade ago during my first battle with male pattern baldness (I had a Rogaine, actually a Xandrox15, and nizoral regimen) I responded pretty well over time, but I always remember some folks here who would lament that "Rogaine DESTROYED their hairline", and thought that the drug was doing harm to their hair. At the time, I casually dismissed this as someone who was going through a Rogaine Shed and being oversensitive/overdramatic about it.

During this second round of me getting back on the regimen, I can ABSOLUTELY say that I thought that Rogaine was ruining my hairline. I restarted a regimen after several years of acceptance because I felt like the little NW3 "widows peak" area was rapidly losing hair, and quickly. Hair quality was shitty, a buzz cut was all that was starting to look good, but the buzz cut eliminated the length I used to have their to make my NW3 look age-appropriate and acceptable. I got on the Rogaine, and sh*t got really bad. I swear I shed for a month straight. That NW3 "widows peak" area was no longer a forest, instead you could literally see through it, total scalp visibility through the reed patch of hairs. The thought in my head was... "my god, I started Rogaine too late" It was SO bad I picked up some Toppik in advance of a dinner date I had with an old flame. Toppik is a pretty amazing product.

After 7 months of Rogaine, I can honestly say that the reversal of this shed has been freaking amazing. At this point, I assume that the effects of the finasteride are also probably helping, but my hairline is BACK to baseline. But what has really surprised me is the improvement in hair quality, as compared to how it was in the deep depths of my Rogaine Shed.

To anyone out there who has started Rogaine, and you are shedding, and thinking that Rogaine is actually harming your hair and not improving it... keep your nerve! Stick with it for at least 6 months before you pass judgement! Don't quit it in the middle of your shed! Give it time to do its thing.

And, for anyone going through a shed, you might want to consider picking up some Toppik. Go onto Youtube and search for it, and make sure to watch some of the numerous videos folks have posted about how they use it. It'll help you get a feel for how to best apply, and it might help you get through this initial shed.

When you use Rogaine, be prepared. Things get worse before they get better... but they DO get better, for the majority of people who use it.

 

[abovedagame]

Thanks for the update but where are the pics? Where are the answers to everyone's questions?

 

[The Gardener]

Hey, ATG... sorry, have been so busy with moving and furniture and making sh*t fit in my new place. Here are my answers to your questions...

"Back then I think u were using topical spironolactone and Xandrox correct? Did u drop those in favor of rogaine and nizoral once dr lee was shut down? Also u were a big proponent of folligen and copper peptides no?"

True... I did use spironolactone for a while. I started with just plain Rogaine, then discovered this forum and added in nizoral and Folligen. Then, was turned onto the old Dr Lee suite of products and added in spironolactone.

I HATED the spironolactone. Greasy, smelly, hard to use. (I hear that the new S5 spironolactone products are lighter and not smelly, so maybe they might be good for some). Anyways, I dropped spironolactone after about a year, and frankly it didn't set my hairline back a lick.

I think that everyone is different. And, I think the key to a good hairloss regimen isn't throwing the kitchen sink at it with every product in the arsenal. Instead, it is taking the time to hone your regimen onto the products that you are responding well to, and being really disciplined about using them. Since dropping spironolactone didn't seem to hurt me, I just took it off the list and never used it again. Instead I focused on the product that I was responding REALLY well to, minoxidil, and upped my dose on this by starting to use the Dr Lee 15% minoxidil "Xandrox" formulation. Dr Lee got closed up by the FDA, and I went back to normal 5% Rogaine, with no loss... I guess the higher dosage really didn't have that much effect... and continued with that for a few more years. At that point, I started to slide with my regimen. I slowly lost hair, going from an NW3 with thickness that allowed me to have a hairstyle that made me look more like an NW4, but at the age I was at, I was okay with this. In your early 40's, having a "widows peak" with recession in the corners of the temples is a pretty normal hair situation, and I didn't freak out about it as much as I did in my early 30s.

"You're actually the one that turned me to copper peptides for facial care. Still using those?"

I quit Folligen about the same time I quit spironolactone. And, YES, I LOVE copper peptides for facial care and continue to use SuperCop liquid on my face every night... and Dr Pickhart's salycylic acid every day. And I get compliments on my complexion! I used Folligen on my hair thinking that if it improved my complexion so much, it must have some sort of a good effect on the hair? When I went through my "narrow the regimen" phase, I dropped it. And frankly, I felt no ill effects from this... .either from the stopping spironolactone, or stopping folligen.

I just concentrated on minoxidil, and concentrated on being disciplined about it... until I reached an age when I stopped being disciplined, hehe... but I was okay with that at the time. Being older, my expectations of my hairline had lowered, and my recession, even after stopping my regimen and losing my NW4 and becoming a real NW3, it was nice to live without a regimen. Until six months ago, as I describe at the top of this thread.

"Btw do u have any recommendations for itchy scalp? Already using nizoral."

Now THIS is a very interesting question. Itchy scalp is a multifaceted issue. It can be caused by "Seb Derm", which is, in effect, a dandruff-like irritation of the scalp that has nothing to do with male pattern baldness... but I personally, STRONGLY believe that Seb Derm and male pattern baldness are synergistic. From my own personal experience, I get itchy dandruffy scalp when I have gotten paranoid and started using TOO MUCH minoxidil on my hair. In fact I had a terribly dandruffy scalp when I restarted minoxidil six months ago... until I realized that in my zeal to save my hair, I was probably putting 3ml on my hair for each application. Rogaine has a chemical called PPG in it that is an irritant... I cut my usage back to a strict no more than 2ml per usage, and the dandruff subsided.

However, itchy scalp, for me, has also ALWAYS been a sign that I am going through a hairloss event. Not sure if this is the case for everyone, but for me, my male pattern baldness has taken place in stages. I had a period of mild recession and loss in high school... accompanied by itchy scalp. Then it seemed to stabilize on its own without meds. Another period of recession, hair shed, hair loss, and itchiness during the college-to-full time job period of my life. Then it stabilized, without meds. Then another period of recession and shedding and loss, and itchiness in my early 30s... this is when I started a regimen.

So, for me, hair itchiness is a sign that my hair is under an active DHT attack. During my recent regimen restart my hair was an itchy mess, started the Rogaine, and overused it, and the itchiness got worse, with dandruff mixed in.

With all this being said, here are my ideas for combating itchiness:
- Pick up some Head and Shoulders anti-dandruff shampoo. You are using Nizoral, which has Ketoconazole as its active ingredient, but there was a piece of research cited here years ago back in my Regimen 1.0 days that said that the fungus that causes Seb Derm can become tolerant to Ketoconazole. H&S uses a different active ingredient, I believe it is Pyrothine or something like that. You don't need to use the H&S as a permanent part of your shampoo cycle, but just use it once every two weeks or so, just to scoop up any Seb Derm bugs that might be on your scalp that are tolerant to the Nizoral.
- Check your minoxidil dosage. Are you using it excessively? The dosage recommendation is 1ml. Are you using more? In my opinion, the dosage recommendation is for a patient who is treating male pattern baldness on the crown area, as the minoxidil trials were modeled. Since I am treating male pattern baldness on my crown AND my vertex, I use 2ml per treatment. 1ml on the crown, and 1ml on the vertex. This, IMHO, is a max effective dose. Maybe see if you can be a little more judicious in your application, which exposes your scalp to less of the irritant PPG ingredient, which might help calm the itching.
- As I mentioned above, itchy scalp, for me, has always been an indicator of DHT attack. Not sure if this is medically viable terminology, but this is just how it has "felt" to me. Although I don't think that spironolactone did anything to help my hairline, I do recall it having a sort of "cooling" effect on a hot, itchy scalp. Maybe you should consider seeing if a little dab of this new S5 spironolactone might really help with this?
- Continuing on this area of thought, the itchiness and dandruff I experienced when starting my new, most recent, regimen was COMPLETELY obliterated when I started finasteride. I think that this, at least from the perspective of my own body and how it reacts to things, kind of validated my "feeling" that the itchiness was an indicator of hormonal attack on the follicles. Ever since I started finasteride, the itchiness and dandruff have been COMPLETELY halted. Then again, if this is the potential root of your hair itchiness issue, perhaps finasteride might not be necessary. Maybe just topical spironolactone might provide some calming, as an antiandrogen to fight this?
- My last suggestion... Time. During the hairloss "events" I had when I was younger, they were all accompanied by itching. But, in the course of months, even without meds or a regimen back then, the hairloss and the itchiness eventually subsided.

Hope this gives you some food for thought. I am NOT a doctor. But, I am someone who has a decade of hairloss regimen experience, but, what works for me, and what doesn't work for me, might manifest itself in a completely different way for you. I think the best thing is to be mindful of your own body as you take on a hairloss regimen. I think, over time, you get a gut feel over the components of the regimen that are helping, and the components that are superfluous. Let me know if you have any more specific questions!

Best,
TG

 

[abovedagame]

Thanks for the detailed response, I really appreciate it. You make some really good points. I have a few follow up questions if u don't mind:

1. Why don't u use foam minoxidil? It has helped address inflammation and allergic reactions to ppg for many. It also adds a bit of volume to the hair once it's applied.
2. Do u use brand name Rogaine or generic? Used twice or once a day?
3. I love pickarts products and am using lacsal cream frequently. I used to use his cp serum on my face but I thought it was making my face more hairy, have u experienced this?
4. I've tried head and shoulders b4 and get a burning allergic reaction every time. Do u think tgel extra strength will be enough?
5. Do u notice scalp inflammation increases when u r stressed, don't sleep enough, drink heavily, or experience high levels of anxiety?
6. Do u recommend any vitamins or supplements for hair?

Thanks again

 

[Johnmpb]

The gardener,
What do u think of selsun blue shampoo for scalp issues?

Also, do u have pics of ur hair as promised?

 

[The Gardener]

Good questions, ATG. Here are my answers....

"1. Why don't u use foam minoxidil? It has helped address inflammation and allergic reactions to ppg for many. It also adds a bit of volume to the hair once it's applied."
Hehe, good question. I have no good answer to this other than when I started Rogaine, there was no "foam". Back in the Regimen 1.0 days, I heard a few folks who started trying the foam, and liked it... but for some reason I just stuck with what I was used to. I think, in the back of my mind, I have this feeling that I want the Rogaine to directly hit the scalp as much as possible, and not have to pay for Rogaine that is lost, sitting there, doing nothing, coating my hair strands.

"2. Do u use brand name Rogaine or generic? Used twice or once a day?"
I use brand name Rogaine. The generics I tried, it seemed to me, left too much white powder on my hair. And, it just "felt" different on my scalp. This is no swipe at generics... hell, I use generic Finasteride and it's working very well. But for some reason, just using the old school brand name, liquid dropper Rogaine just feels better, for me.

I use TWICE a day, and I do so f*****g religiously.

Find what works for you, and be disciplined about it.

"3. I love pickarts products and am using lacsal cream frequently. I used to use his cp serum on my face but I thought it was making my face more hairy, have u experienced this?"
Not at all. But I tell you what I did think was making my face more hairy... overdosing Minoxidil. Like I had mentioned earlier, there were times early in my regimen starts when I, out of pure emotion, drowned my hair in Minoxidil every night. It definitely thickened my beard, and resolved and went back to normal when I cut my dosage back to something more in line with the medically prescribed dosages.

"4. I've tried head and shoulders b4 and get a burning allergic reaction every time. Do u think tgel extra strength will be enough?"
Yeah, I can understand that. Scalp is sensitive, and every person probably has their own sensitivity to one chemical or another. Especially when DHT is providing this constant background assault on the scalp that can create an irritative environment. If H&S makes your scalp burn, then drop it. Yeah, absolutely, TGel is a good alternative... the key is just to mix up the anti-fungal, and TGel does just that. Everyone's scalp is different, the key is finding what works for you, and being disciplined about it.

"5. Do u notice scalp inflammation increases when u r stressed, don't sleep enough, drink heavily, or experience high levels of anxiety?"
No, not for me, BUT... I can say that I have had hair shed events when I've been in periods of high stress. And its not an male pattern baldness shed, but more of what the old school members of this forum years ago in my Regimen 1.0 days referred to as a "synchronized shed". It's not a permanent shed, but rather, an event where a seemingly larger than normal number of hairs just all seemed to go into resting mode all at once, and all soon found their way onto my bathtub floor over the course of 3-4 weeks. They regrew... these were just "sheds", very similar to the "minoxidil shed", but it was terrifying.

"6. Do u recommend any vitamins or supplements for hair?"
YES. Take a quality b-complex supplement. Especially if you are an alcohol drinker.

 

[The Gardener]

"The gardener,
What do u think of selsun blue shampoo for scalp issues?

Also, do u have pics of ur hair as promised?"

Selsun Blue uses Selenium Sulfide as an anti-fungal. Good, this as I mentioned above "mixes the anti-fungals up".

I'll take pictures when I can. I've been really busy lately trying to move, and don't have the time to find cables to hook a phone up to my laptop, etc. at the moment.

 

[abovedagame]

Would u ever consider a hair transplant?

What made u go for finasteride over topical spironolactone? Lack of results previously?

How many women have u banged in the last year and has it helped ur hair?

Do u want to take a trip to tj?