Have I reached NW3 ? 25y

[MrKmass]

Hello I would like to know your opinion !

Have I reached NW3 ? I have been receding for some time already. I don't know if I should take the risk of trying a heavier diet.

My crown is still OK and I can still hide my receding hairline when they are long.

 

[BurningCoals]

Nah, that's more of a NW2, (arguably even lower if you were to go very technical). A true NW3 is when your recession stretches all the way back to your ears, which is a bit rare.

 

[MrKmass]

Nah, that's more of a NW2, (arguably even lower if you were to go very technical). A true NW3 is when your recession stretches all the way back to your ears, which is a bit rare.

Thanks for your answer !
NW2 or less seems very far from my situation ...

I think the NW3 to the ears is not in all cases. There are lots of people who don't back down so far but who only have a small piece of hair on their foreheads. Mine is shrinking, my temples are gone.

But if you think i'm nw2 or less I take it pleasantly. I am so focused on my hair taking dozens of photos to see that I have no perspective on the situation. I feel like I am becoming more and more catastrophic day by day, I can no longer judge my progress in hair loss.

If I am still only NW2 I will avoid taking a heavier treatment !

 

[BurningCoals]

Thanks for your answer !
NW2 or less seems very far from my situation ...

I think the NW3 to the ears is not in all cases. There are lots of people who don't back down so far but who only have a small piece of hair on their foreheads. Mine is shrinking, my temples are gone.

But if you think i'm nw2 or less I take it pleasantly. I am so focused on my hair taking dozens of photos to see that I have no perspective on the situation. I feel like I am becoming more and more catastrophic day by day, I can no longer judge my progress in hair loss.

If I am still only NW2 I will avoid taking a heavier treatment !

The Norwood scale:

I really don't see any way you're beyond NW2. People tend to underexaggerate hair loss per Norwood.

Even if we are to go by layman norwoods used in the hair loss community (ie. minor recession = NW2, significant recession = NW3, terms like "NW2.5", "NW0" etc) I still see no way you're beyond NW2.

 

[MrKmass]

Maybe you are right ! Based on your photo I am a norwood 2 seen from top but on the side my temples look more like the Norwood 3.

And seeing the other forum posts, most people rated as "NW2" are not far like me in recession. But maybe it comes as you say from a misinterpretation of the norwood scale for most people !

 

[Diffused_confidence]

Nah, that's more of a NW2, (arguably even lower if you were to go very technical). A true NW3 is when your recession stretches all the way back to your ears, which is a bit rare.

I did a ton of research on norwood patterns and it turns out norwood 3 is not necessarily receding to the ears. It's more about volume of recession. It turns out the norwood scale is used by patients but surgeons have a more advanced

This is Tom hanks in Forest Gump. Normally I would classify this as norwood 2.5 since recession isn't as steep but this is actually a type of norwood 3 due to the volume of the corners that have hair loss. It's more about how the hair loss is starting to bleed into the frontal forelock.

Norwood 3 is basically the first sign people notice you are receding. Looking at the photo, I know his hairline is high.

Norwood 2 is more like the end result of a mature hairline. Looking at OP he definitely is not norwood 3. However, looking at his temple region you can see some thinning. In a year he could definitely lose some ground and his wide U shape hairline could turn V and that V will turn back to a narrow U over a few years depending on how aggressive it is.

So, my advice is to look at his family history. If there is no balding then he should be ok. If there is, ask when it started and how it progressed.

 

[BurningCoals]

I did a ton of research on norwood patterns and it turns out norwood 3 is not necessarily receding to the ears. It's more about volume of recession. It turns out the norwood scale is used by patients but surgeons have a more advanced

View attachment 164810

This is Tom hanks in Forest Gump. Normally I would classify this as norwood 2.5 since recession isn't as steep but this is actually a type of norwood 3 due to the volume of the corners that have hair loss. It's more about how the hair loss is starting to bleed into the frontal forelock.

Norwood 3 is basically the first sign people notice you are receding. Looking at the photo, I know his hairline is high.

Norwood 2 is more like the end result of a mature hairline. Looking at OP he definitely is not norwood 3. However, looking at his temple region you can see some thinning. In a year he could definitely lose some ground and his wide U shape hairline could turn V and that V will turn back to a narrow U over a few years depending on how aggressive it is.

So, my advice is to look at his family history. If there is no balding then he should be ok. If there is, ask when it started and how it progressed.

Well the NW3 in the Norwood scale does stretch all the way back to the ears, so if it does then that's what NW3 is.

But I do think it is fair to use the norwoods as more "layman terms", ie. NW2 = minor recession, NW3 = major recession, like I wrote above, so it just doesn't become a bunch of technical jumble (I mean just look at the NW7 in the chart, I hardly ever see people where the horseshoe stretches that far down). Either way, OP is definitely not a NW3.

 

[Diffused_confidence]

Well the NW3 in the Norwood scale does stretch all the way back to the ears, so if it does then that's what NW3 is.

But I do think it is fair to use the norwoods as more "layman terms", ie. NW2 = minor recession, NW3 = major recession, like I wrote above, so it just doesn't become a bunch of technical jumble (I mean just look at the NW7 in the chart, I hardly ever see people where the horseshoe stretches that far down). Either way, OP is definitely not a NW3.

The way I view it now after a ton of research is the norwood level depends on volume of hair loss.

Norwood 0 is a real thing. It's this

Most people aren't even born with such a hairline.

Norwood 1 is average hairline as a child that can extend into teens and young adults.

Norwood 2 has a variety of forms. It can be a mature hairline or mild recession.

The big picture is no one will say you are balding.

Norwood 3 is the first sign of balding due to sheer volume of recession and/or thinning at the vertex. Tom hanks is a sample most would call a norwood 2.5 mainly because it isn't far back. Using the ears can be a decent rule of thumb.. HOWEVER, head shape can be deceptive when doing this.

As you can see even after the results his hairline does still dip toward the ears. The important thing is the recession on the interior part of the temples.

Norwood 4 is severe hairline recession mixed with clear loss at vertex/crown.
Normally both temple recession merge like here

This is usually paired with crown balding.

Norwood 5 is very sparse hair in front and large balding in the back and a bridge of hair at midscalp.

Norwood 6 is sparse hair on scalp, hair on sides is about 3 inches high. A lot of men stop here for awhile.

Prince Williams is a prime example and for the life of me I have no clue why he isn't getting a hair transplant. Norwood 6 can be salvaged with a really good surgeon that I'm sure the royal family could afford. Also note the height of the hair on the sides.

But some men as they get older the donor area starts to die and you fall to
Norwood 7. Balding dips into the donor region and sides of your head are 2 inches high.

Notice how there is another inch down the sides. Most balding men ultimately end up in stage 6 or 7 before stabilizing. Another subgroup is the A class, which is for anterior. These balding patterns are horrible in the early stages but ironically they are the best long term. A norwood 5A can get full recovery with the right surgeon.

All of this is going to vary based on head shape, progression, etc. But the key concept is volume of loss.

To some, I am a norwood 2, to others I'm a norwood 3. I choose 2.5 to give everyone an idea of the level.

I'd say once you hit 2.5 you notice the hair loss happening and other people don't notice it until you hit 3 or 3.5 if you are lucky. Unfortunately once you hit that point a handful of women will turn you down.

 

[BurningCoals]

The way I view it now after a ton of research is the norwood level depends on volume of hair loss.

Norwood 0 is a real thing. It's this
View attachment 164817

Most people aren't even born with such a hairline.

Norwood 1 is average hairline as a child that can extend into teens and young adults.

Norwood 2 has a variety of forms. It can be a mature hairline or mild recession.
View attachment 164818
The big picture is no one will say you are balding.

Norwood 3 is the first sign of balding due to sheer volume of recession and/or thinning at the vertex. Tom hanks is a sample most would call a norwood 2.5 mainly because it isn't far back. Using the ears can be a decent rule of thumb.. HOWEVER, head shape can be deceptive when doing this.
View attachment 164819
As you can see even after the results his hairline does still dip toward the ears. The important thing is the recession on the interior part of the temples.

Norwood 4 is severe hairline recession mixed with clear loss at vertex/crown.
Normally both temple recession merge like here
View attachment 164820
This is usually paired with crown balding.

Norwood 5 is very sparse hair in front and large balding in the back and a bridge of hair at midscalp. View attachment 164821

Norwood 6 is sparse hair on scalp, hair on sides is about 3 inches high. A lot of men stop here for awhile.
View attachment 164822
Prince Williams is a prime example and for the life of me I have no clue why he isn't getting a hair transplant. Norwood 6 can be salvaged with a really good surgeon that I'm sure the royal family could afford. Also note the height of the hair on the sides.

But some men as they get older the donor area starts to die and you fall to
Norwood 7. Balding dips into the donor region and sides of your head are 2 inches high.
View attachment 164823
Notice how there is another inch down the sides. Most balding men ultimately end up in stage 6 or 7 before stabilizing. Another subgroup is the A class, which is for anterior. These balding patterns are horrible in the early stages but ironically they are the best long term. A norwood 5A can get full recovery with the right surgeon.
View attachment 164824

All of this is going to vary based on head shape, progression, etc. But the key concept is volume of loss.

To some, I am a norwood 2, to others I'm a norwood 3. I choose 2.5 to give everyone an idea of the level.

I'd say once you hit 2.5 you notice the hair loss happening and other people don't notice it until you hit 3 or 3.5 if you are lucky. Unfortunately once you hit that point a handful of women will turn you down.

Yeah I support using something like this as a general layman version of the Norwood scale, I was just talking about the very technical stuff. (Although Schwimmer is arguably a NW1 with a very low hairline, and DiCaprio is a NW1 with a widow's peak, his hairline has always looked like that).

Either way there actually aren't all that many men who go to true NW3 territory, most seem to recede to a NW2 or "NW2.5" and then the recession starts curving inwards, or they start balding on the crown, or they just start diffusing all over. In profile view I look actually more like the NW2 on the chart (head on I often look like a classic NW3) but my forelock is thinning and the recession seems to be curving inwards instead of straight back (I also have this "bridge" forming between my forelock and midscalp, like a NW4).

 

[Diffused_confidence]

That being said. Looking at your photos, I see some similarities to my situation about 2 years ago.

Photos 3-5 are what I'm going to key in on. I don't have pictures of your hairline 5 years ago or anything but I'm going to bet your temple area was about 1cm lower. You have sort of a triangle recession. Another key point are the temple points on the side of your head (the arrows in front of ears). there is thinning there.

I'd say norwood 2 is accurate here. I would advise to check family history and consult a doctor. If you have the gene then you might want to start propecia now.

 

[Diffused_confidence]

Yeah I support using something like this as a general layman version of the Norwood scale, I was just talking about the very technical stuff. (Although Schwimmer is arguably a NW1 with a very low hairline, and DiCaprio is a NW1 with a widow's peak, his hairline has always looked like that).

Either way there actually aren't all that many men who go to true NW3 territory, most seem to recede to a NW2 or "NW2.5" and then the recession starts curving inwards, or they start balding on the crown, or they just start diffusing all over. In profile view I look actually more like the NW2 on the chart (head on I often look like a classic NW3) but my forelock is thinning and the recession seems to be curving inwards instead of straight back (I also have this "bridge" forming between my forelock and midscalp, like a NW4).

Do you use finasteride? I'm in similar boat. I have 1 really bad temple and another with minor thinning. I got no major sides so far after about 6 weeks (brain fog at times) but I am slowly losing ground still. I'm told there is a shed phase that can last months and results happen at like 6 months...

When I started from the front I can style my hair to hide recession and look ok but now that temple is harder to hide. I look a lot better at night. Light is your enemy.

 

[MrKmass]

I did a ton of research on norwood patterns and it turns out norwood 3 is not necessarily receding to the ears. It's more about volume of recession. It turns out the norwood scale is used by patients but surgeons have a more advanced

View attachment 164810

This is Tom hanks in Forest Gump. Normally I would classify this as norwood 2.5 since recession isn't as steep but this is actually a type of norwood 3 due to the volume of the corners that have hair loss. It's more about how the hair loss is starting to bleed into the frontal forelock.

Norwood 3 is basically the first sign people notice you are receding. Looking at the photo, I know his hairline is high.

Norwood 2 is more like the end result of a mature hairline. Looking at OP he definitely is not norwood 3. However, looking at his temple region you can see some thinning. In a year he could definitely lose some ground and his wide U shape hairline could turn V and that V will turn back to a narrow U over a few years depending on how aggressive it is.

So, my advice is to look at his family history. If there is no balding then he should be ok. If there is, ask when it started and how it progressed.

In this image I would classify Tom Hanks NW3, he has the beautiful arc of a circle at the temples. I have about this thing there now, there is still 2 months I was good.

The fall has accelerated this year but I started my recession 8 years ago when I was 17.

In terms of "Family history", you can't do worse than my family. My dad, his brother (my uncle) and their dad (my grandpa) were all NW7 before they were 27. And at my age they were obviously a lot worse than me.

On my mother's side, my grandfather died young so I don't really know, he still had a lot of hair I was told! And his only son fell NW3 quickly and then never really moved.

 

[MrKmass]

That being said. Looking at your photos, I see some similarities to my situation about 2 years ago.

Photos 3-5 are what I'm going to key in on. I don't have pictures of your hairline 5 years ago or anything but I'm going to bet your temple area was about 1cm lower. You have sort of a triangle recession. Another key point are the temple points on the side of your head (the arrows in front of ears). there is thinning there.

I'd say norwood 2 is accurate here. I would advise to check family history and consult a doctor. If you have the gene then you might want to start propecia now.

You are quite right about the photos from 5 years ago. I attach one !

And precisely my recession which has always been triangular is less and less, it begins to form the "M".

I tried propecia but got side effects. I found my sweet spoot 0.1 mg / ml topical finasteride on the hairline. I also add 2% CB and a little spironolactone cream.

I have been on minoxidil for 8 years!

As for point temples, I think they've always been like this since I was a teenager. I have retrograde alopecia which so far is not getting worse (the second photo.)

 

[Diffused_confidence]

You are quite right about the photos from 5 years ago. I attach one !

And precisely my recession which has always been triangular is less and less, it begins to form the "M".

I tried propecia but got side effects. I found my sweet spoot 0.1 mg / ml topical finasteride on the hairline. I also add 2% CB and a little spironolactone cream.

I have been on minoxidil for 8 years!

As for point temples, I think they've always been like this since I was a teenager. I have retrograde alopecia which so far is not getting worse (the second photo.)

You have mature hairline there. I'd say norwood 1.5 it's just that the shape of the hairline just gives the illusion of norwood 2. How you recede and your head shape plays a role in at what point people think you are balding. The hair style in picture 6 is more hair in the front to hide it. It will work for awhile but eventually it will stop working.

At my point it doesn't work perfectly and I plan to do surgery after 2 years of finasteride if I am able to stabilize but experience no regrowth.

 

[MrKmass]

You have mature hairline there. I'd say norwood 1.5 it's just that the shape of the hairline just gives the illusion of norwood 2. How you recede and your head shape plays a role in at what point people think you are balding. The hair style in picture 6 is more hair in the front to hide it. It will work for awhile but eventually it will stop working.

At my point it doesn't work perfectly and I plan to do surgery after 2 years of finasteride if I am able to stabilize but experience no regrowth.

Unfortunately it was not a mature hairline but a recession. If I am 1.5 on these photos I don't see how on my current photos I can be below 2.5!

Yes I know that soon I will not be able to hide my hair anymore, I do not know what my situation is at 25, I do not know if I should get used to the idea that I will soon be bald or if I still have a little time to enjoy my hair.

I think it is the right option to wait to stabilize with finasteride for an operation. If I ever had to stabilize I would too, but that would amaze me with the low dosage I take. I'm waiting for kintor!

 

[Diffused_confidence]

Tricky thing about finasteride is that eventually you may start losing ground despite treatment years later. That's why when it comes to surgery you need a long term hair loss plan. Work on the hairline but be conservative so that it matches with long term goals and in case treatments fail. Some people go bald at oy the crown. Maybe your end game goal should be to cover the hairline and midscalp but not the crown area. This can be used to buy time with hair and by the time you run out of donor hair you might be old enough where it isn't a big deal.

 

[BurningCoals]

Do you use finasteride? I'm in similar boat. I have 1 really bad temple and another with minor thinning. I got no major sides so far after about 6 weeks (brain fog at times) but I am slowly losing ground still. I'm told there is a shed phase that can last months and results happen at like 6 months...

When I started from the front I can style my hair to hide recession and look ok but now that temple is harder to hide. I look a lot better at night. Light is your enemy.

I got hold of finasteride a few weeks ago and took 1.25 mg of it once to test it out. I got a bit of dizziness and almost nausea after taking it, however I'm not giving up on the drug by any means, I'm planning get on it on a consistent basis when I turn 20 which is in a few months. Hopefully those sides will dissipate plz. It induced a shed which is still on-going two weeks later (I can easily pull out clumps of hair from even the horseshoe area for some reason).

Been on minoxidil since September 2019 and my hair has stayed basically the same since then (maybe there has been some small loss, hard to tell since my hair can look passable in one moment and like a rat's nest in another one). I did basically get off it from late 2020 to early 2021 due to running out of the drug and I went through a big shed however my hair appearance-wise still looks the same. Nowadays I'm trying to grow facial hair with min and since I'm gaining small but slow gains for my facial hair, and since the hair on my hands, arms, legs and feet grows longer and is thicker simply doing that might have some benefit for my head hair.

 

[MrKmass]

Tricky thing about finasteride is that eventually you may start losing ground despite treatment years later. That's why when it comes to surgery you need a long term hair loss plan. Work on the hairline but be conservative so that it matches with long term goals and in case treatments fail. Some people go bald at oy the crown. Maybe your end game goal should be to cover the hairline and midscalp but not the crown area. This can be used to buy time with hair and by the time you run out of donor hair you might be old enough where it isn't a big deal.

That's entirely the idea. I'm already in the idea of remaking a NW1.5 at the front (a line that looks like mine 5 years ago on the photo) and not a NW0 and to focus on the front and the middle. I guess I have a more limited amount of donor hair due to alopecia retrograde so I'm going to have to give up on the crown idea.

I tell myself that by then either there will be a new treatment to preserve this area of the crown. And otherwise I would try with my beard or body hair! All coupled with a little smp and topik for special occasions, my crown will suit me very well!

 

[Will Be an Egg in 5 years]

The way I view it now after a ton of research is the norwood level depends on volume of hair loss.

Norwood 0 is a real thing. It's this
View attachment 164817

Most people aren't even born with such a hairline.

Norwood 1 is average hairline as a child that can extend into teens and young adults.

Norwood 2 has a variety of forms. It can be a mature hairline or mild recession.
View attachment 164818
The big picture is no one will say you are balding.

Norwood 3 is the first sign of balding due to sheer volume of recession and/or thinning at the vertex. Tom hanks is a sample most would call a norwood 2.5 mainly because it isn't far back. Using the ears can be a decent rule of thumb.. HOWEVER, head shape can be deceptive when doing this.
View attachment 164819
As you can see even after the results his hairline does still dip toward the ears. The important thing is the recession on the interior part of the temples.

Norwood 4 is severe hairline recession mixed with clear loss at vertex/crown.
Normally both temple recession merge like here
View attachment 164820
This is usually paired with crown balding.

Norwood 5 is very sparse hair in front and large balding in the back and a bridge of hair at midscalp. View attachment 164821

Norwood 6 is sparse hair on scalp, hair on sides is about 3 inches high. A lot of men stop here for awhile.
View attachment 164822
Prince Williams is a prime example and for the life of me I have no clue why he isn't getting a hair transplant. Norwood 6 can be salvaged with a really good surgeon that I'm sure the royal family could afford. Also note the height of the hair on the sides.

But some men as they get older the donor area starts to die and you fall to
Norwood 7. Balding dips into the donor region and sides of your head are 2 inches high.
View attachment 164823
Notice how there is another inch down the sides. Most balding men ultimately end up in stage 6 or 7 before stabilizing. Another subgroup is the A class, which is for anterior. These balding patterns are horrible in the early stages but ironically they are the best long term. A norwood 5A can get full recovery with the right surgeon.
View attachment 164824

All of this is going to vary based on head shape, progression, etc. But the key concept is volume of loss.

To some, I am a norwood 2, to others I'm a norwood 3. I choose 2.5 to give everyone an idea of the level.

I'd say once you hit 2.5 you notice the hair loss happening and other people don't notice it until you hit 3 or 3.5 if you are lucky. Unfortunately once you hit that point a handful of women will turn you down.

Schwimmer is a lucky son of a b**ch. He's reaching 50 with the exact same hairline.

My father had a juvenile hairline at 70

 

[Diffused_confidence]

Schwimmer is a lucky son of a b**ch. He's reaching 50 with the exact same hairline.

Not exactly

He's now at sort of a feminine hairline which is like norwood 1-1.5.

Hair loss starts at puberty and you lose hair over time. The amount depends on aggressiveness and patterns.

Even donor hair at older ages start to thin.