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Has Anyone Questioned Androgenetic Factors

Discussion in 'Men's General Hair Loss Discussions' started by bobmer, Feb 23, 2007.

  1. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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  2. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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  3. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Genetic Traits Direct?

    Genetic Traits Direct?
    Like black and white, true genetic defects exhibit clearly distinguishable irregularities on its host either you have it or you don’t. But there are arguments that somehow contradict the unequivocal influence of genes on some progressive disorders because many are found to involve environmental factors. There are more ways genetic traits can affect the follicles indirectly.

    Check this book
    http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
     
  4. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Goodbye Testosterone and Dihydrotestosterone

    asdf
     
  5. SkylineGTR

    SkylineGTR Experienced Member

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    to bad the link doesnt work
     
  6. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Goodbye Genetic Traits

    asdf
     
  7. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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  8. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    male pattern baldness Patients had the inkling, yet the experts don't say

    asdf
     
  9. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    How does one delete a post
     
  10. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Can physical excises help?

    asdf
     
  11. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    The Unknown

    We know that pattern hair loss is associated with a number of cardiovascular diseases but we also know that many men are free from these diseases.

    Logically, and for the sake of argument, the causes of pattern hair loss could be something that affects the cardiovascular system but something that is too subtle to cause cardiovascular diseases but enough to affect the follicles or is something that is yet to be associated with pattern hair loss. It can also be argued that this unknown is environmental in nature because most cardiovascular diseases are induced by environmental factors.

    Check this book
    http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
     
  12. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Lifestyle we can't see as hostile

    Non-pharmacological therapies that lower the risk factors of mental stress, heart ischemia and coronary artery disease are a change in lifestyle. If we plot the changes required to lower the risk factors, they lead to a lifestyle closer to what would have been the lifestyle of our prehistoric ancestors who instinctively interact with the primal environment - a lifestyle and environment from whence our physiological adaptation is taken.

    Our lifestyle has changed drastically in the last few centuries in the West and the last few decades elsewhere in the planet as to cause adverse effects.

    Bringing these lost instincts back as habits will prevent a host of diseases. There are only four of these in the author's manuscript but only two are critical in the prevention of pattern hair loss.

    Check this book
    http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
     
  13. michael barry

    michael barry Senior Member

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    Bob,

    Your information is WRONG.


    Castration stops further baldness.

    People who get castrated before they start to lose hair, DONT LOSE HAIR. That website, like alot of bullshiit websites, is WRONG.


    Women who get testosterone injections to be "like men" end up going male pattern bald about as often as men do. 50% of women who got testosterone injections were at various states of Norwood level 2-5 at 13 years of testosterone treatment.



    Finasteride, the weakest internal anti-androgen we have, only stops 90% of type 2 created DHT, and leads to increased hair counts that peak at year 2, and slowly decline thereafter. A person does not get back to baseline until roughly years 12-14 on finasteride alone according to Ken Washenik, a relatively famous hair researcher. Dutasteride is roughly 22% more effective than finasteride is, so the curve to get back to baseline would be longer, probably a good 20 years or so.


    I get sick and tired of people who read some bullshiit website coming in here and declaring that all science has discovered about baldness is wrong and that there is "something in the air" or some such horseshit that causes baldness, that shampoo causes baldness (then everybody would be bald---beacause we all wash our hair), big pillows cause baldness, cell phones cause baldness.


    Roman emporers (Julius Ceasar) went bald. Ive seen a Cretian vase depicting a bald (Norwood 6-7) fisherman from 1500 BC. Thats a long time before power lines. Ancient Egyptians attempted to fight baldness with crocidile fat and hippo dung, Ancient greeks had their own concoctions and Hippocrates used pigeon shiit to fight his own baldness (didn't work either). Male horomone, espeically DHT, made right there in the outer rootsheath of the hair follicles where the type two alpha five reductase enzymes are located get uptaken by androgen receptors, and the DNA instructs in the dermal papilla submit growth inhibitors like thrombospondin, fiberbalst growth factor five, tgf-beta, interleuikin 1, and some others yet to be discovered to the rest of the follicle. Follicle cells in the root sheath, kerationocytes, epilitheal cells, etc. slow down production and slow hair growth. At some point, the immune system (probably sensing more growth inhibitors being active in a mini-organ than growth factors) senses the follicle is a foreign body and begins to attack it. Excessive collagen gets deposited around the follicle by the dermal fibrobalsts (probably as a result of tgf-beta whcih you can counteract with apple proanthocyandins, green tea extract, or curcumin, or bromelain) which constrict the microcapillaries that feed the follicle, the immune system sends superoxides at the follicle which age it, and inflammatory cytokines like TNF-alpha, protien kinease C, and IL-1 and the ageing and damage begins.


    Its easy to stop this however, just block receptor sites on the follicle, as the follicles on your head need no male hormone at all. If you are interested in regrowing some hair, block receptor sites and use growth stimulants and tissue remodellers to repair cellular damage and attempt to break up the collagen. Thats it. Not goddammned light poles.
     
  14. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Hello Michael,
    I hope you're right. The androgenetic equation is probably right but not in all cases - FDA approved drugs work on a small number of patients. Propecia works for some but after 2 years of using it, they start losing hair again, albeit, at a slower rate. (found in propecia site).

    The androgenetic theory does not answer the correlation of pattern hair loss with:
    ischemic heart disease
    hypertension
    coronary artery disease
    obesity, high cholesterol

    All of these are supported by credible research materials and all have something to do with blood supply.

    I'm just helping this author sell his book because his methods are working at least for me. It's all non-pharmacological so no side effect can ever be expected.

    Let me post a little of that again: "Greek doctors observed that male pattern baldness can develop in men of any age after puberty. They recorded that young boys castrated before puberty did not develop pattern hair loss. However, boys castrated during or after puberty could develop pattern baldness" I difference is semantics, i guess. But I found the same wordings from another site keratin.com

    Androgenetics does not explain why male pattern baldness is rising in industrializing countries.
    Androgenetics implies that men are inherently flawed? :)
     
  15. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Testesterone anyone?

    Also, the level of testosterone circulating in the system of bald and non-bald men in the same age group are nearly the same and the slight differences do not correspond with the extent of hair loss. This means that testosterone does not initiate hair loss.

    There is another side of the equation and the question is - why don't all men go bald?

    Androgenetics if missing that other side of the equation.
     
  16. wookster

    wookster Experienced Member

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    :eek:nfire: :spam: :diespam: :eek:nfire:
     
  17. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    Caucasians are more prone to hair loss

    In Japan, incidents of pattern hair loss increased when the Americans ruled after World War II. The US forces instituted wholesale changes on Japanese society in a level unheard of in modern times. It was theorized that Western food contributed to pattern hair loss but further studies negated the theory.


    Check this book
    http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
     
  18. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    spam?

    :lol:

    SPAM??

    Spam is machine posted thrash. This is manually posted.

    errr.. manually posted spam oopss. :band:
     
  19. bobmer

    bobmer Established Member

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    phytoestrogen and MBP

    Let me just post another excerpt from the book and show how this author thinks and analyses:

    Enlarged prostate glands have been associated with pattern hair loss(16). But male populations who consume high phytoestrogen diets have a reduced risk of prostate cancer development and progression(14). Inductive reasoning indicates that phytoestrogen counters the supposed ‘adverse’ effects of male hormones.

    The consumption of foods that improve dynamism and blood circulation will help negate the effects of testosterone. But this countermeasure will generally not prevent hair loss without Countermeasures B and C although it may be effective for a handful of men. It is imperative the Countermeasure B and C are applied.

    14. Effects of a diet rich in phytoestrogens on prostate-specific antigen and sex hormones in men diagnosed with prostate cancer.
    Dalais FS, Meliala A, Wattanapenpaiboon N, Frydenberg M, Suter DA, Thomson WK, Wahlqvist ML.

    16. Androgenetic alopecia and prostate cancer: findings from an Australian case-control study. Giles GG, Severi G, Sinclair R, English DR, McCredie MR, Johnson W, Boyle P, Hopper JL.

    All I can say is Androgenetics is more of a hype than an unequivocal truth.

    Check this book
    http://unraveled.bravehost.com/
     
  20. Strange Days

    Strange Days Member

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    Well I'm convinced! I guess what swung it for me was the fact that this guy's website is setup on the free service, Bravehost.

    Always a sure sign of credibility. :shock:
     

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