Hair loss in aging men-conumdrum??

[Guest]

So this is what I am puzzling out--

As men age, overall their Testosterone levels drop markedly. I assume that DHT levels also drop (I will do a search to verify this assumption). Yet, many men either start to (or continue to) lose hair.

What is at play here? If DHT is the major culprit in hair loss, why wouldn't hair loss abate or remain a non issue as T and DHT levels plummet?

Posit--could be that test/estrogen level? Could be that aging cells are simply more easily overcome by the impacts of DHT?

Point is that I haven't seen this set of circumstances addressed so far. Is hair loss in aging males fundamentaly different that male pattern baldness in a 25 yr old and IF SO, what are the implications for our treatment protocols?

Any facts/thoughts to add to this??

 

[pharoh]

I read about this somewhere during my months or research on the internet before I started treatment...

I read that old men that go bald (the same goes for old women that start losing hair) isn't to do with male pattern baldness but just due to the fact that nutrients etc don't reach the hair etc due to ageing. For exactly the reason old peroples bones, skin get brittle/worse etc just because the obdy starts to slow down in its efficiency...

Sorry can't really explain it much better at the mo, due to drinking and having read about it sevral months ago...I may be wrong but it seems pretty logical, hance the reason why baldness is generally associated with old age.

 

[morpheus]

i can agree with what pharoh says, also, mens testosterone level dont significently drop, they dont have a menopause like women do, they may drop a bit but not much, thats why old men are still able to perform sexually,
also as far as i know, when womengo through the menopause, their endorinological profile becomes more masculine, in that oestrogen and progesterone levels drop, and testosterone levels, remain the same, androgenic alopecia becomes a greater possibilty

 

[Bob Booley]

When men get older, most will lose a certain amount of hair. It's male pattern baldness and it's happening at a later age for them. Why? I have no idea, I didn't study science in college. It can start at 25, or it can start at 55. It's DHT and that's it.

Whatever the reason is, assure yourself that scientists have covered your question LONG before you thought of it and if the answer has been found, then consult an expert who knows why.

Other than that, we'll leave it up to the scientists and experts to deliver us a miracle cure, which will probably never happen anyway

BOOLEY

 

[Guest]

i can agree with what pharoh says, also, mens testosterone level dont significently drop, they dont have a menopause like women do, they may drop a bit but not much, thats why old men are still able to perform sexually,
also as far as i know, when womengo through the menopause, their endorinological profile becomes more masculine, in that oestrogen and progesterone levels drop, and testosterone levels, remain the same, androgenic alopecia becomes a greater possibilty

Actually there are a number of studies that contadict your statement about men's testosterone levels and age. In fact, they do drop and drop quite sharply from say age 25 to age 65.

And, well older men MAY be able to be sexually active, the data suggests it is MUCH less active, again the frequency of sex is inverse proportion to their age and in direct proportion to their test levels, ie as the test drops, so does mr wood.

:freaked2:

 

[Guest]

One of those studies!

Muller M, den Tonkelaar I, Thijssen JH, Grobbee DE, van der Schouw YT.

Julius Center for Health Sciences and Primary Care, University Medical Center Utrecht, The Netherlands.

OBJECTIVE: To determine the relationship between aging, life-style factors and health-related factors and endogenous sex hormone levels. DESIGN: Cross-sectional study of 400 independently living men between 40 and 80 Years of age. METHODS: After exclusion of subjects who were not physically or mentally able to visit the study center, 400 men were randomly selected from a population-based sample. Total testosterone (TT), bioavailable testosterone (BT) (i.e. not bound to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG)), SHBG, estradiol (E(2)) and dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate (DHEA-S) were investigated for their relationship with age, body mass index (BMI), waist circumference, smoking, physical activity and general health status. Multivariate models using ANCOVA analyses were used to examine the contribution of life-style factors to sex hormone variability. RESULTS: TT, BT and DHEA-S decreased with age; 0.2, 0.7 and 1.2%/Year respectively. SHBG showed an increase with age of 1.1%/Year. No changes with age were found for E(2). General health status modified the association of TT and SHBG with age (P interaction 0.10 and 0.002 respectively). Increased BMI and waist circumference were associated with decreased TT, BT, SHBG and DHEA-S and increased E(2) (all P<0.01). Current smoking, lower alcohol intake and a higher physical activity score were associated with higher TT and SHBG levels. CONCLUSION: This study showed the important determinants of sex hormones were age, BMI, waist circumference, smoking, general health status and physical activity. Furthermore, it can be concluded that general health status modified the effect between sex hormones and age. For future observational studies it should be taken into account that the above-mentioned determinants may alter the association between sex hormones and diseases and related conditions.

PMID: 14641001 [PubMed - in process]

 

[Bob Booley]

Bruce are you kidding me

reading that message is like trying to find your way out of the world's largest maze in the dark

 

[Guest]

J Clin Psychiatry. 2003; 64 Suppl 10: 31-7. Related Articles, Links


The aging male: androgens, erectile dysfunction, and depression.

Seidman SN.

Department of Psychiatry, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University and the New York State Psychiatric Institute, New York, NY 10032, USA. sns5@columbia.edu

In contrast to women, men do not experience a sudden cessation of gonadal function comparable to menopause. However, there is a progressive reduction in hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal (HPG) axis activity in aging men: testosterone levels decline and there is a loss of the circadian rhythm of testosterone secretion. Such progressive HPG-axis hypofunctioning is thought to be responsible for some signs and symptoms that are common in elderly men such as fatigue, reduced muscle and bone mass, sexual dysfunction, and depression. Yet, such presumed hypogonadal sequelae have not been correlated with testosterone levels. Unlike the profound effects of replacement therapy in young men with frank hypogonadism, testosterone replacement in men with age-related mild hypogonadism is not apparently effective in reversing these symptoms. This article reviews the relationship between androgens, sexual function, and depression in aging men.

 

[Guest]

Bruce are you kidding me

reading that message is like trying to find your way out of the world's largest maze in the dark

Sorry Bob, I just find them, I don't write them! :lol:

 

[Pete]

You tend to notice when T levels start to decline around 25 onwards, hairloss and DHT levels starts to increase.

 

[Bob Booley]

i know bruce, but it looks like aliens wrote that stuff

well, either that or it's an ancient egyptian's heiroglyphics

regardless of what it is, if it's from earth, it doesn't look like it's from our time period

 

[Bob Booley]

basically Bruce, don't post that jibberish to all of us, because, as the general population around here, we don't waste our time reading up on sientific information that will take all of our yearly vacation time to figure out... just treat us like every day Joe-Flows, like we are, and all will be good with the hairloss talk.

 

[Bob Booley]

my post was deleted.. fair enough, i probably would have done the same ,moderator, but hey, on a personal note- you understand what i'm saying, hairloss talk, i know you do

 

[morpheus]

fair play to you bruce, but i did say that men dont go thru a menopause like women do, ie they dont suffer from the same drastic hormone changes, at a certain time of life like women do, and i did say their testosterone levels drop , your research states they they drop more than i implied doesnt it? thats what this place is for, a pool of knowledge

 

[Pete]

You raise some interesting points:

From my own research - T levels are said to start to decline around 25 onwards, at the same time hairloss and DHT levels are said to start to increase.

 

[Guest]

fair play to you bruce, but i did say that men dont go thru a menopause like women do, ie they dont suffer from the same drastic hormone changes, at a certain time of life like women do, and i did say their testosterone levels drop , your research states they they drop more than i implied doesnt it? thats what this place is for, a pool of knowledge

For sure, men don't get hammered with a drop off of T the way that women get their hormones altered during memopause.

Ours is rather a long slow decline that one could argue, is more problematic, because it is less noticable. We just feel like perhaps the batteries are slowly draining, which I believe they are, from a T point of view.

Intriguing to deal with, and combat this. And I am in the middle of it right now.

Now, off to take my creatine and lift weights. I do what I can!!!!!!!!

:hairy:

PS- Booley, was that better?

:lol:

 

[cyberprimate]

I read that old men that go bald (the same goes for old women that start losing hair) isn't to do with male pattern baldness but just due to the fact that nutrients etc don't reach the hair etc due to ageing. For exactly the reason old peroples bones, skin get brittle/worse etc just because the obdy starts to slow down in its efficiency...

That's probably true. But i've noticed that old men lose their hair in the same horseshoe pattern

 

[pharoh]

That's probably true. But i've noticed that old men lose their hair in the same horseshoe pattern

Yeh for the same reason that men suffering from DHT get the horse shoe shape - because hair on the scalp of the head is more susceptible to loss. I assume that the same goes for old men, it is the hair on the top of the head that first feels the effects of lack of nutrients. I guess that makes more sense than the entire head of hair just suddenly stopping getting what it needs, is going to be a gradual thing

 

[Bryan]

If DHT is the major culprit in hair loss, why wouldn't hair loss abate or remain a non issue as T and DHT levels plummet?

Questions like that can be really difficult to answer, and I don't think anyone knows for sure. However, the most reasonable explanation to me is simply that damage to hair follicles by androgens is a CUMULATIVE phenomenon. It slowly builds up as the years and decades go by, even as androgen levels are starting to decline gradually.

Bryan

 

[Guest]

If DHT is the major culprit in hair loss, why wouldn't hair loss abate or remain a non issue as T and DHT levels plummet?

Questions like that can be really difficult to answer, and I don't think anyone knows for sure. However, the most reasonable explanation to me is simply that damage to hair follicles by androgens is a CUMULATIVE phenomenon. It slowly builds up as the years and decades go by, even as androgen levels are starting to decline gradually.

Bryan

I think this is a reasonable hypothesis. Moreover, aging cells of ALL types are less robust than younger ones. This MIGHT be one of the reasons why folligen and other similar substances may have better applicability for male pattern baldness as we age. This is as opposed to straight DHT fighers such as propecia.

I would be interested in Dr. Pickarts take on this.