GreenTea and SawPalmetto : Compelling effectiveness studies!

psych721027

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Saw Palmetto

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/Che ... lmetto.pdf

Saw palmetto is known to exhibit an antiandrogenic action (experimental model not specified), although the compound responsible for this action has not been identified (Tyler, 1993; cited by Mendosa, 1997).
The cause of the antiandrogenic effects of saw palmetto extracts are debated. The effects are thought to be caused by a direct action on the androgen receptor (Briley et al., 1983; Carilla et al., 1984; both cited by Champault et al., 1984; Ravenna et al., 1996), the inhibition of the enzyme testosterone-5--reductase (Sultan et al., 1984; cited by
Champault et al., 1984), and/or competitive inhibition of hydrotestosterone (DHT) binding to both cytosolic and nuclear receptors (Sultan et al.,1984; cited by Lowe and Ku, 1996). However, studies by Rhodes et al. (1993; cited by Lowe and Ku, 1996) found that saw palmetto berry extract (Permixon) did not demonstrate any inhibition of DHT binding or inhibition of 5--reductase activity. Strauch et al. (1994) also did not observe inhibition of 5--reductase activity when determined by measuring serum DHT levels. Délos et al. (1995) found that Permixoninhibited the formation of all the testosterone metabolites studied (DHT; androst-4-ene-3,17-dione; and 5-androstane-3,17-dione) in
both epithelial and fibroblast cells from BPH and prostate cancer tissues. Lehle et al. (1995) also found that the saw palmetto extract markedly inhibited both isoforms of human 5--reductase in the baculovirus-directed insect cell expression system, but the inhibition was noncompetitive. Permixoninhibited DHT and testosterone binding in 11
different human tissue specimens (el-Sheikh et al., 1988). In humans, the antiandrogenic effect is achieved without significantly influencing systemic hormone levels, including testosterone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and luteinizing hormone (Casarosa et al., 1988).


The most interesting thing about this article is the localized DHT inhibiting of the prostrate. Suggesting that topically applied Saw Palmetto may indeed do the same thing on the scalp. Judging from the anecdotal effectiveness of Revivogen and other topicals high in Saw Palmetto, my inference into the above cited study may just be correct.



Green Tea


http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb ... 7/_article

Enzymatic Hydrolysis of Green Tea Seed Extract and Its Activity on 5α-Reductase Inhibition


Jun-Seong PARK1), Myeong-Hoon YEOM1), Won-Seok PARK1), Kyung-Mi JOO1), Ho-Sik RHO1), Duck Hee KIM1) and Ih Seop CHANG1)

1) Skin Research Institute, AMOREPACIFIC R&D Center

(Received June 21, 2005)
(Accepted November 4, 2005)

Two kaempferol glycosides were isolated from green tea seed extract (GTSE). After conducting a structure analysis, these two compounds were identified as kaempferol-3-O-[2-O-β-D-galactopyranosyl-6-O-α-L-rhamnopyranosyl]-β-D-glucopyranoside (compound 1) and kaempferol-3-O-[2-O-β-D-xylopyranosyl-6-O-α-L-rhanmopyranosyl]-β-D-glucopyranoside (compound 2). These two compounds were hydrolysed by o-glycolytic enzymes for the production of kaempferol. After performing several reactions, we found the optimum enzyme combination, a reaction with β-galactosidase and hesperidinase. Finally, we produced kaempferol of above 95% purity. The 5α-reductase inhibition activities of GTSE hydrolysate (GTSE-H) containing kaempferol were evaluated by the contact cell-based metabolic method using a stable HEK 293 cell line. GTSE-H showed a good inhibition effect on HEK 293 cell lines both type 1 and type 2 on 5α-reductase. Especially, GTSE-H inhibited type 2 with kaempferol content dependency. The results indicate that the inhibition activity of hydrolysate on 5α-reductase type 2 increases in accordance with kaempferol content.


No two ways about this study I believe. Topically applied, green tea is very effective in inhibiting DHT levels, specifically both type 1 and type 2 5α-reductase. Read the whole article. It shows a very interesting graph on page 7 comparing the active components of Green Tea to Finasteride.
 

WorldofWarcraft

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1. How do you get green tea on your head? Boil a pot of tea and pour it over yourself?

2. The first study clearly sights how saw palmetto is useless when taken internally to ward off DHT. Are you going to stop eating saw palmetto now?
 

michael barry

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Its probably the beta sitosterol content in saw palmetto that blocks androgen receptors by competitively binding with them and being recognized as an estrogen. The problem is that taking a great deal of beta sis gives you side effects along the lines of flutamide.

Topically, I think beta sis could be very effective. I tested pine oil (highest naturally occuring amounts of beta sis in nature) on the back of one of my hands to see if it would inhibit hair growth there. It certainly did slow it down relative to the other hand.


Another thing to consider about topical saw palmetto is how long it would be biolgically active. 4 hours, 6 hours, 12 hours, etc. in order to determine how often one would have to apply it to their scalp. Interesting stuff though.
 

psych721027

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WorldofWarcraft: Don't be a retard. I'm still gonna take the Saw Palmetto for the other health promoting effects. But topically, this study does suggest saw palmetto may be effective topically due to it's active ingredient beta sitosterol. And from the amount of topicals containing it, and anecdotal evidence(non-FDA tested: like all herbs), very likely is effective.

Michael: Thanks for the intelligent response Michael. The beta sitosterol is definately the most active component in Saw Palmetto. I've been thinking of doing a similar experiment by using one of the topicals that comes with a high content of Green Tea and Saw Palmetto and see if it inhibits/slows hair growth. Perhaps on a part of my face. Likely I'll try the one I'm using now. Based on your small experiment with the pine oil, I would think that a topical containing Green Tea and Saw Palmetto would be effective. These are just my conclusions and anyone reading this can draw their own, but it seems pretty convincing. Especially since products like Revivogen generally get good anecdotal reviews from people and it contains a lot of Saw Palmetto. I'm also not naive, in thinking that all products containing these substances are created equally. However, with a properly prepared formula, as Revivogen and a few others have, that GT and SP applied topically are effective against male pattern baldness.
 

WorldofWarcraft

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psych721027 said:
WorldofWarcraft: Don't be a retard. I'm still gonna take the Saw Palmetto for the other health promoting effects. But topically, this study does suggest saw palmetto may be effective topically due to it's active ingredient beta sitosterol. And from the amount of topicals containing it, and anecdotal evidence(non-FDA tested: like all herbs), very likely is effective.

On a thread in which someone wanted to take saw palmetto to fight hairloss you told him how important the dosages were. In reality, the doses he would take didn't matter at all because ingesting saw palmetto doesn't do jack for fighting hairloss.

I do admit, that is a pretty good strategy to fall back to saying you were taking saw palmetto for its other health benefits, when in reality, we all know you wouldn't have started taking the stuff if you didn't think it would fight hairloss.

You owe me an apology.
 

psych721027

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I did, because the studies that use 320mg of Saw Palmetto internally to deal with prostate enlargement resulted in lowered DHT locally in the prostrate. This was the amount of Saw Palmetto they used. 320mg I was drawing the conclusion from even though serum DHT levels measured were not lowered, it is possible that they never checked for binding of the DHT by beta-sitosterol or whether of not androgen receptor blocking occurred in the hair follicles and scalp. So, if a guy is gonna take Saw Palmetto, they might as well take the dosage that has had a scientific study behind it. Anyway, since that time I suggested it to that guy, that was what I thought and still do. However, I believe a lot more strongly that Saw Palmetto is likely most effective used topically, due to the localised action exhibited in the prostrate study on DHT levels.

In the end, I'll admit that the studies don't show conclusively or not whether it works or it doesn't work internally for hair loss or how much it works, unless a study specific to hair loss is performed. Btw, if you read my post correctly I never said I didn't originally start taking Saw Palmetto for hair loss. However, it does say my opinion and thoughts have changed due to the studies I have found.

Here are the conclusions I have drawn due to the recent studies I have found:

Saw Palmetto Internally: Unknown Effectiveness if any for male pattern baldness
Saw Palmetto Topically: Most Likely Effective for male pattern baldness

I definately owe you no apology. You, however, might wanna go apologise to the multitude of people you've verbally abused on this board though.
 

So

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Why not topically applied WHITE TEA?

White tea is proposed to have more anti-oxidative benefits than it's Green tea counterpart so therefore I would assume it may be a better choice by way of potency in a topical concoction.

A lot of Green Tea Extract talk or Green Tea as Tea in general goes on here but seldom do I hear White Tea Extract mentioned or employed in its use.

Thoughts?
 

psych721027

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Not sure So. Perhaps it's just not as common as green is. I know that green tea is pretty easy to come by as far as suppliments go, but I've never seen a white tea suppliment.
 

abcdefg

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Possible. Why not just take propecia though? If you apply saw palmetto in large amounts topically it could cause problems of its own long term not to mention the whole problem of getting it absorbed and if enough is absorbed in large amounts you probably end up with propecia like side effects anyways.
 

wstef

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I was looking into green tea recently (because I drink LOADS, not for hair loss) and I came across an article that suggested large amounts of polyphenol, which is present in green tea and it's supplements, can be damaging to the body; especially the liver.

It's not a dodgy, random link either. It's from New Scientist (albeit from 2007)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... ities.html

I was taking Saw Palmetto for a while and didn't really notice any difference. Although I am in no doubt it helps with DHT (I believe Germany prescribes Saw Palmetto more than it does Proscar and such for prostate problems?), I don't think it's affective enough to prevent hair loss.

I think it might be a good supplement for another DHT blocker (dutasteride, finasteride etc)?

I read that Saw Palmetto can often counteract the negative effects of things like finasteride?
 
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