Green tea inhibits angiogenesis-study

[CCS]

the warm water idea sounds good. leave it in until it dries. after it dries, it is no longer going to absorb more. Only problem with showing right away is some that went in might come back out.


as to the other finasteride vs spironolactone question, it really just depends on how much gets absorbed. finasteride and spironolactone are both steroids, so probably the sam amounts would get absorbed. Even if they do get absorbed, we need to know if enough gets absorbed. From what I've read, the octyl salicylate is really good stuff, as it increases absorption of finasteride by 10 fold. the 25% water, 50% ethanol, 25% propylene glycol mix worked well in a small study, but I think 25% water, 40% ethanol, 20% pg, 10% octyl salicylate, and 5% DMSO would be better. Just grind the finasteride and spironolactone together and extract into everclear and mix into the other stuff. Why one or the other when you can use both? Apply minoxidil 2 hours before, rinse it out, and then apply the finasteride/spironolactone mix.

 

[CCS]

micheal berry,

I just now read your question about how to separate GLA from glycerol in borageseed oil. I'm going to do that soon and will send you some free of charge since you've been a big help. It might be a month though. It is easy to do, if you have HCl (myriadic acid for pools) and lye, and a magnetic stirrer and stir bar. I have those in my lab. I'll send docj077 some to if he wants it. The expensive part is getting pure GLA, separating it from the oleic acid and linoleic acid, but we don't need to do that.

If I add an 85% saw palmetto capsule to my minoxidil, do you think it will help at all, and do you think it will stink?

 

[person_123]

i can't be bothered reading the whole thread. so is the verdict that green tea helps you grow hair? or helps stop/slow hair loss?

if so, how much is enough for a day?

 

[jakeb]

One week into GTE, it definitely soothes inflammation. I had one day off of it and really noticed the itching and soreness on the scalp.

Made my second batch tonight. In 5oz of water, the 1 teaspoon of GTE was still not fully dissolving. I added more water and propylene glycol to make it 8oz and ended up with a very muddy-looking, but fully dissolved mixture.

Definitely looking into getting some apple polyphenol caps, too.

Thanks for the advice guys. Anyone else have GTE updates?

 

[jakeb]

Just an update... I've been of finasteride for about 3 weeks now, using only green tea extract topically and minoxidil. And I've got to say, shedding has decreased in a big way.

It's completely possible that this coincided with the end of a natural big shed, but I'm feeling pretty good about the green tea extract. At least I haven't noticed any drastic fall-out due to quitting finasteride.

Next step in the experiment-- using Folligen as the vehicle for my gte.

 

[docj077]

Just an update... I've been of finasteride for about 3 weeks now, using only green tea extract topically and minoxidil. And I've got to say, shedding has decreased in a big way.

It's completely possible that this coincided with the end of a natural big shed, but I'm feeling pretty good about the green tea extract. At least I haven't noticed any drastic fall-out due to quitting finasteride.

Next step in the experiment-- using Folligen as the vehicle for my gte.

Good luck with your plan. You're walking a fine line by stopping the finasteride., but in the end you'll feel better for it. I know that I do and I haven't looked back.

I really hope the GTE works for you. Keep us updated.

No shedding is good, but no hair loss is even better.

 

[CCS]

I think of dutasteride as an anti-aging pill. I suspect that DHT is not healthy for skin. Could be wrong.

Damn, a whole tea spoon. You sure do make yours strong. My total mixture is less than 3%.

 

[Goingat20]

i havent read the whole thread, but why dont we just use green tea in a pill form , would it be better topically? Certainly easier to pop a pill

 

[shyguy]

any updates???????

 

[jakeb]

Well, it's hard to say when you don't take progress pictures, but even though the shedding has appeared to cut way down and I don't seem to be losing hair rapidly, I feel like my hairline has receded slightly.

This is a big letdown for me because I *can't* go back on Finasteride. That stuff was messing with me too much. I love having hair, but I love not being mentally retarded even more.

Looking into other topicals asap.

 

[sublime]

I think of dutasteride as an anti-aging pill. I suspect that DHT is not healthy for skin. Could be wrong.

Damn, a whole tea spoon. You sure do make yours strong. My total mixture is less than 3%.

dutasteride boosts estrogen which causes men to age and causes prostrate cancer.

 

[CCS]

does estrogen really cause aging? So estrogen hurts the prostate just like DHT does? I thought they'd have opposite effects. I know estrogen causes the body to store more fat.

 

[sublime]

Good article that touches on the topic from one of the (IMO) most honest sources.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/feb2004_cover_test_01.htm

 

[Bryan]

Oh-oh. Life-Extension Magazine promotes Super-Miraforte, a chrysin-containing supplement that's supposed to lower estrogen. I just lost a serious amount of respect for them.

Bryan

 

[sublime]

Oh-oh. Life-Extension Magazine promotes Super-Miraforte, a chrysin-containing supplement that's supposed to lower estrogen. I just lost a serious amount of respect for them.

Bryan

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16972788&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum

Now can we focus on the aticle instead of your red herring comments?

 

[Bryan]

Oh-oh. Life-Extension Magazine promotes Super-Miraforte, a chrysin-containing supplement that's supposed to lower estrogen. I just lost a serious amount of respect for them.

Bryan

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/..._uids=16972788&query_hl=6&itool=pubmed_docsum

Now can we focus on the aticle instead of your red herring comments?

No, I'm not ready to stop focusing on the fact that chrysin supplements are worthless!

BTW, did you even bother to READ that abstract you posted? Did you happen to notice that (1) it was just an in vitro study, and that (2) chrysin was actually found to ACTIVATE estrogen receptors?

Here's another study for you to think about. Read this one CAREFULLY, my friend:

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2001 Sep;78(3):231-9.

"No evidence for the in vivo activity of aromatase-inhibiting flavonoids." Saarinen N, Joshi SC, Ahotupa M, Li X, Ammala J, Makela S, Santti R.
Institute of Biomedicine, University of Turku, Kiinamyllynkatu 10, finasteride-20520, Turku, Finland.

Measurements of the aromatase-inhibiting and antioxidative capacities of flavonoids in vitro showed that slight changes in flavonoid structure may result in marked changes in biological activity. Several flavonoids such as 7-hydroxyflavone and chrysin (5,7-dihydroxyflavone) were shown to inhibit the formation of 3H-17beta-estradiol from 3H-androstenedione (IC(50)<1.0 microM) in human choriocarcinoma JEG-3 cells and in human embryonic kidney cells HEK 293 transfected with human aromatase gene (Arom+HEK 293). Flavone and quercetin (3,3',4',5,7-pentahydroxyflavone) showed no inhibition (IC(50)>100 microM). None of the requirements for optimal antioxidative capacity (2,3-double bond with 4'-hydroxy group, 3-hydroxyl group, 5,7-dihydroxy structure and the orthodihydroxy structure in the B-ring) is relevant for the maximum inhibition of aromatase by flavonoids. After oral administration to immature rats at a dose of 50 mg/kg body weight, which considerably exceeds amounts found in daily human diets, neither aromatase-inhibiting nonestrogenic flavonoids, such as chrysin, nor estrogenic flavonoids, such as naringenin and apigenin, induced uterine growth or reduced estrogen- or androgen-induced uterine growth. The inability of flavonoids to inhibit aromatase and, consequently, uterine growth in short-term tests may be due to their relatively poor absorption and/or bioavailability.

 

[Bryan]

Hey, let's talk some more about how chrysin doesn't work! Here's an old post by my friend Dave on alt.baldspot:

From: Dave
Date: Tues, Nov 20 2001 9:29 pm
Email: Dave <d...@nospam.com>
Groups: alt.baldspot

Bryan Shelton wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:41:53 -0500, Dave <d...@nospam.com> wrote:

> > I have said all along that Chrysin is crap. What is my reasoning for
> > thinking that way? The chemist/researcher, Patrick Arnold, the
> > person who discovered Chrysin, chose not to market the compound
> > because further testing revealed that it had no activity in vivo.
> > He has stated that many times.

> What do *you* think about the claim that LEF has tested chrysin
> with piperine, and supposedly found that it's absorbed and utilized?

Please refer to the following URL:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hair loss=en&s ... 40ix.net...

Quote from Patrick Arnold:

"For the umpteenth time there was a rat test that showed it did not work by injection either. the low solubility in lipids probably prevents it from entering cells. the only tests that showed chrysin worked were not full cell assays but used isolated aromatase."

Some interesting other tidbits about 4H-1-benzopyran-4-one,5,7-dihydroxy 2-phenyl (Chrysin):

Chrysin may be cytotoxic and estrogenic [1,2]. What? Did someone ever think that supplements were tested for safety?

1. Nshimo CM, Pezzuto JM et al. Cytotoxic constituents of Muntingia calabura leaves and stems collected in Thailand. Int. J. Pharmacogn. 31(1), 77-81, 1993. --The flavonoids chrysin, 2,4-dihydroxychalcone, and galangin were isolated. These were active against one or more of a panel of human and murine cell lines.

2. Miksicek R. Estrogenic flavonoids: structural requirements for biological activity. Proc. Soc. Exp. Biol. Med. 208(1), 44-50, 1995. --Systematic survey of polycyclic phenols to identify those with estrogenic activity. Natural estrogens include chalcones, flavanones, flavonols, and isoflavones. Selected examples of estrogenic flavonoids were analyzed for relative affinities for binding the estrogen receptor.

Dave

 

[sublime]

Wow this is getting pointless. Thank you for focusing on the topic, I never said chrysin was useful and really do not care about it. I will let you continue your topic about chrysin with your old buddy Dave. If you would like to get back to estrogen and aging I will be here to discuss.

 

[Bryan]

Thank you for focusing on the topic, I never said chrysin was useful and really do not care about it.

Really? Then why did you post an abstract in an attempt to justify using it?

 

[sublime]

CCS - Hopefully that article helped answer some of your questions. Unless you have any other questions I am going to leave this thread as done for me.