Green tea elevates DHT and testosterone levels?

[HLTguest]

Is this for real? Scary stuff if it is. No more green tea I guess.

Here are some quotes from the study.

"Green tea did not reduce final tumor weight, although it tended to elevate (P = 0.14) the serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentration. "

"Green tea tended to increase serum testosterone and DHT levels by 73.8% (P = 0.14) and 194% (P = 0.076), respectively"

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/133/2/516#SEC2

I'm totally freaked out after reading this because I have been drinking lots of green tea. Now I find out this whole time its only hurting my hair..... :cry:

 

[docj077]

"The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo."

:lol:

That's why you eat your soy products kids.

 

[HLTguest]

"The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo."

:lol:

That's why you eat your soy products kids.

I thought soy was really bad for your hair...? Also, this whole time many people including myself were under the impression that green tea might help your hair ever so slightly (obviously proven meds are better), but now it looks like it can really hurt your hair, at least by itself?

 

[docj077]

"The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo."

:lol:

That's why you eat your soy products kids.

I thought soy was really bad for your hair...? Also, this whole time many people including myself were under the impression that green tea might help your hair ever so slightly (obviously proven meds are better), but now it looks like it can really hurt your hair, at least by itself?

That's a good point. That study is really vague and really doesn't help us out scientifically. I didn't read it very close, but it doesn't really mention if the increase in testosterone and DHT was free hormone, protein bound hormone, or both. If it's either of the second two, then there are no worries. Only free hormone has any opportunity for biological activity.

Also, Green Tea is believe to help hair loss a couple of different mechanisms. I've heard that it increases SHBG, which would mean that DHT and testosterone production would increase as the levels of those hormones fell due to SHBG production and removal of hormone from the general circulation. I've also read that Green Tea is believed to have effects that are removed from androgens and androgen receptors.

I'll have to look into this some more. Either way, Green Tea is good for your health and it seems as though Black Tea is even better.

As for the soy being bad for your hair, I've never heard that. In fact, I've heard the exact opposite.

 

[HLTguest]

"The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo."

:lol:

That's why you eat your soy products kids.

I thought soy was really bad for your hair...? Also, this whole time many people including myself were under the impression that green tea might help your hair ever so slightly (obviously proven meds are better), but now it looks like it can really hurt your hair, at least by itself?

That's a good point. That study is really vague and really doesn't help us out scientifically. I didn't read it very close, but it doesn't really mention if the increase in testosterone and DHT was free hormone, protein bound hormone, or both. If it's either of the second two, then there are no worries. Only free hormone has any opportunity for biological activity.

Also, Green Tea is believe to help hair loss a couple of different mechanisms. I've heard that it increases SHBG, which would mean that DHT and testosterone production would increase as the levels of those hormones fell due to SHBG production and removal of hormone from the general circulation. I've also read that Green Tea is believed to have effects that are removed from androgens and androgen receptors.

I'll have to look into this some more. Either way, Green Tea is good for your health and it seems as though Black Tea is even better.

As for the soy being bad for your hair, I've never heard that. In fact, I've heard the exact opposite.

I found this article, its dated 2004 though, so nothing new here I guess.

Nonetheless, the headline says

Soy 'stops cancer and baldness'

"Researchers believe the molecule could help treat baldness
Scientists have claimed that eating soy could help prevent men from developing prostate cancer and from going bald. "


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3607815.stm

Of course, many people brush this off by saying only 30% of the US population has makes equol in their bodies naturally...

But still, it seems interesting. However I have read a few people on here that after a few years of having soy milk, their hairloss started. Would this be due to an increase in estrogen? I have read here that too much estrogen is responsible for male pattern baldness as well...I think I read that anyway.

Also, do you think I should stop green tea completely? Or perhaps combine it with a little soy milk (everything in moderation right?)? Just asking your personal advice, don't worry, I won't blame you if things get even worse for me (my choices, my consequences :wink: ).

 

[nawlins99]

ok..when someone can speak in lehmans terms and just say" such and such is good, such snd such is bad"...let us know...we will all appreciate it immensly!
if soy is good...where can we get it from? what foods??
thanks!

 

[Fat-Elvis]

ok..when someone can speak in lehmans terms and just say" such and such is good, such snd such is bad"...let us know...we will all appreciate it immensly!
if soy is good...where can we get it from? what foods??
thanks!

Yeah seriously.

And this article is kinda of interesting, since I noticed my hairloss months after I started taking green tea pills regularly, and still do. ugh...

 

[IDOASIS]

I've heard that it increases SHBG, which would mean that DHT and testosterone production would increase as the levels of those hormones fell due to SHBG production and removal of hormone from the general circulation.

SBHG is a molecule that binds with high affinity to testosterone.
Testosterone bound to SBHG is not bioactive and cannot bind to androgen receptors or be converted into dihydrotestosterone.
So it does not explain the increase of serum DHT level.

 

[docj077]

I've heard that it increases SHBG, which would mean that DHT and testosterone production would increase as the levels of those hormones fell due to SHBG production and removal of hormone from the general circulation.

SBHG is a molecule that binds with high affinity to testosterone.
Testosterone bound to SBHG is not bioactive and cannot bind to androgen receptors or be converted into dihydrotestosterone.
So it does not explain the increase of serum DHT level.

I don't think you know how these assays work and we can't really jump to any conclusion regarding their results. Many assays will see bound and free hormone, especially if they use specific kits. Not all kits only see "bioactive" hormone. They don't specify, so we can't assume anything from their results. If someone wants to look up the kit that they used, then we can make better conclusions from the results.

 

[Bryan]

I've heard that it increases SHBG, which would mean that DHT and testosterone production would increase as the levels of those hormones fell due to SHBG production and removal of hormone from the general circulation.

SBHG is a molecule that binds with high affinity to testosterone.
Testosterone bound to SBHG is not bioactive and cannot bind to androgen receptors or be converted into dihydrotestosterone.
So it does not explain the increase of serum DHT level.

Sure it does. Well, theoretically, at least. A decline in bioactive androgens (by way of binding to SHBG) should lead to a reflexive increase in androgen production thanks to the ever-watchful eye of the HPTA.

Bryan

 

[IDOASIS]

Sure it does. Well, theoretically, at least. A decline in bioactive androgens (by way of binding to SHBG) should lead to a reflexive increase in androgen production thanks to the ever-watchful eye of the HPTA.

Bryan

SBHG binds to testosterone but not to DHT ,
so that might explain the higher T levels (if indeed T and bound T were measured together) but it doesnt explain the increase DHT levels by 194%.

 

[IDOASIS]

I don't think you know how these assays work and we can't really jump to any conclusion regarding their results. Many assays will see bound and free hormone, especially if they use specific kits. Not all kits only see "bioactive" hormone. They don't specify, so we can't assume anything from their results. If someone wants to look up the kit that they used, then we can make better conclusions from the results.

No we can't ,but I would think twice before using oral green tea for male pattern baldness.
I intend to ask them some questions regarding their method and kit.

 

[So]

LoL...

So green tea is now bad for your hair? Are you sure about that?

 

[docj077]

Sure it does. Well, theoretically, at least. A decline in bioactive androgens (by way of binding to SHBG) should lead to a reflexive increase in androgen production thanks to the ever-watchful eye of the HPTA.

Bryan

SBHG binds to testosterone but not to DHT ,
so that might explain the higher T levels (if indeed T and bound T were measured together) but it doesnt explain the increase DHT levels by 194%.

That statement is B.S. Of course DHT binds to SHBG.

 

[IDOASIS]

That statement is B.S. Of course DHT binds to SHBG.

True ,but it still doesn't explain the excessive increase of
DHT levels.
Anyway ,I have sent them some questions.

 

[docj077]

That statement is B.S. Of course DHT binds to SHBG.

True ,but it still doesn't explain the excessive increase of
DHT levels.
Anyway ,I have sent them some questions.

Yes, it does. An increase in SHBG will cause it to bind more DHT. Less DHT peripherally will be sensed centrally and there will be a corresponding increase in total DHT. Similar plasma values and elevated SHBG bound values still equals an increase in total DHT concentration.

 

[IDOASIS]

Yes, it does. An increase in SHBG will cause it to bind more DHT. Less DHT peripherally will be sensed centrally and there will be a corresponding increase in total DHT. Similar plasma values and elevated SHBG bound values still equals an increase in total DHT concentration.

That assumption can explain a lower increase of DHT ,but not 194%.
Even if all the DHT binds to SHBG (which is not true) it wont cause an increase of 194% , especially when testosterone increased by only 72%.

 

[docj077]

Yes, it does. An increase in SHBG will cause it to bind more DHT. Less DHT peripherally will be sensed centrally and there will be a corresponding increase in total DHT. Similar plasma values and elevated SHBG bound values still equals an increase in total DHT concentration.

That assumption can explain a lower increase of DHT ,but not 194%.
Even if all the DHT binds to SHBG (which is not true) it wont cause an increase of 194% , especially when testosterone increased by only 72%.

Hormone levels are so low that even the slightest change will cause large amounts of variability in any assay. You need to know the average starting levels of both hormones to even make a conclusion. Plus, is the 194% increase based upon the base level being 100% or 0%? Eitherway, in terms of hormone production 194% is not a large increase and depending upon the starting values is still likely in the normal range.

Plus, this is only one study and the mice were constantly exposed to green tea for all the study as that's all they drank. It's likely that they were toxic beyond what any human being could even achieve. 15g/L of tea leaves in water is a lot. Other concerns regarding preperation would be human error during preparation and problems with the mice and their drinking habits.

This study is incomplete, flawed, and must be duplicated using better techniques. It measured serum DHT levels, which in the grande scheme of things does not determine hair loss.

 

[IDOASIS]

Plus, is the 194% increase based upon the base level being 100% or 0%?

It means the total amount of DHT was almost tripled ,meaning the base is 0%.

Hormone levels are so low that even the slightest change will cause large amounts of variability in any assay.

This is poor speculation.

Eitherway, in terms of hormone production 194% is not a large increase and depending upon the starting values is still likely in the normal range.

So does dutasteride inhibiting 90% of DHT is still likely in the normal range ,what is your point ?

This study is incomplete, flawed, and must be duplicated using better techniques.

What make you think that ,do you know what kind of
equipment they have used?

I think something else is involved.
As we know DHT is produced by T and 5ar ,
because T was raised by only 72% it makes you think.

 

[tchehov]

For f***'s sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does any of this sh*t work? The only thing stops your hair falling out is hamburgers, lots of 'em, every day.