fluridil

[waynakyo]

Has this been posted before ?
If Fluridil is 100% safe and there are studies backing its efficiency how come not everyone is buying it ? Anything I need to know - very low success rate or unmentioned side effects (irritation for example ? )


Dermatol Surg. 2002 Aug;28(8):678-85.Click here to read Links


Fluridil, a rationally designed topical agent for androgenetic alopecia: first clinical experience.
Sovak M, Seligson AL, Kucerova R, Bienova M, Hajduch M, Bucek M.

Radiology Research, University of California, San Diego, California, USA. msovak@ucsd.edu

BACKGROUND: Fluridil, a novel topical antiandrogen, suppresses the human androgen receptor. While highly hydrophobic and hydrolytically degradable, it is systemically nonresorbable. In animals, fluridil demonstrated high local and general tolerance. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the safety and efficacy of a topical anti- androgen, fluridil, in male androgenetic alopecia. METHODS: In 20 men, for 21 days, occlusive forearm patches with 2, 4, and 6% fluridil, isopropanol, and/or vaseline were applied. In 43 men with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia), Norwood grade II-Va, 2% fluridil was evaluated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study after 3 months clinically by phototrichograms, hematology, and blood chemistry including analysis for fluridil, and at 9 months by phototrichograms. RESULTS: Neither fluridil nor isopropanol showed sensitization/irritation potential, unlike vaseline. In all Androgenetic Alopecia subjects, baseline anagen/telogen counts were equal. After 3 months, the average anagen percentage did not change in placebo subjects, but increased in fluridil subjects from 76% to 85%, and at 9 months to 87%. In former placebo subjects, fluridil increased the anagen percentage after 6 months from 76% to 85%. Sexual functions, libido, hematology, and blood chemistry values were normal throughout, except that at 3 months, in the spring, serum testosterone increased within the normal range equally in placebo and fluridil groups. No fluridil or its decomposition product, BP-34, was detectable in the serum at 0, 3, or 90 days. CONCLUSION: Topical fluridil is nonirritating, nonsensitizing, nonresorbable, devoid of systemic activity, and anagen promoting after daily use in most Androgenetic Alopecia males.

 

[kento]

It's in my list to try it with RU these two will be my only weapons to block dht. I hope that they will keep my hair until something new comes on the market

 

[SoThatsLife]

Im still waiting on them to start the trials they said they were going to to. Eucapil is supposed to be effective for maintenance.

If you want to read more, read this http://hairsite2.com/flu.pdf

 

[CCS]

Has this been posted before ?
If Fluridil is 100% safe and there are studies backing its efficiency how come not everyone is buying it ? Anything I need to know - very low success rate or unmentioned side effects (irritation for example ? )


Dermatol Surg. 2002 Aug;28(8):678-85.Click here to read Links


Fluridil, a rationally designed topical agent for androgenetic alopecia: first clinical experience.
Sovak M, Seligson AL, Kucerova R, Bienova M, Hajduch M, Bucek M.

Radiology Research, University of California, San Diego, California, USA. msovak@ucsd.edu

BACKGROUND: Fluridil, a novel topical antiandrogen, suppresses the human androgen receptor. While highly hydrophobic and hydrolytically degradable, it is systemically nonresorbable. In animals, fluridil demonstrated high local and general tolerance. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the safety and efficacy of a topical anti- androgen, fluridil, in male androgenetic alopecia. METHODS: In 20 men, for 21 days, occlusive forearm patches with 2, 4, and 6% fluridil, isopropanol, and/or vaseline were applied. In 43 men with androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia), Norwood grade II-Va, 2% fluridil was evaluated in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study after 3 months clinically by phototrichograms, hematology, and blood chemistry including analysis for fluridil, and at 9 months by phototrichograms. RESULTS: Neither fluridil nor isopropanol showed sensitization/irritation potential, unlike vaseline. In all Androgenetic Alopecia subjects, baseline anagen/telogen counts were equal. After 3 months, the average anagen percentage did not change in placebo subjects, but increased in fluridil subjects from 76% to 85%, and at 9 months to 87%. In former placebo subjects, fluridil increased the anagen percentage after 6 months from 76% to 85%. Sexual functions, libido, hematology, and blood chemistry values were normal throughout, except that at 3 months, in the spring, serum testosterone increased within the normal range equally in placebo and fluridil groups. No fluridil or its decomposition product, BP-34, was detectable in the serum at 0, 3, or 90 days. CONCLUSION: Topical fluridil is nonirritating, nonsensitizing, nonresorbable, devoid of systemic activity, and anagen promoting after daily use in most Androgenetic Alopecia males.

I read the study in its entirety. Done by the people who sell it, no other studies I know of, and they gave it to the placebo group after just 3 months, so that it was not placebo controlled for the next 6 months. Are you aware that your hair gets lighter and denser throughout the year in cycles? With no placebo, they could have timed the trial during an up period, if you believe the counts at all.

Of course it is safe. Who would want to get sued? The question is whether it works. I'm still waiting for an independent, placebo controlled trial, even if it is 20 guys over 6 months. Until then, I'm not paying $45 to put isopropyl alcohol on my skin every day, or breath the fumes. And if it runs in your eyes, which it did mine when not careful, it really burns. Very low viscosity stuff. Yeah, if you can't handle propecia, and don't like a mess in your hair, then why not try? Well, your scalp has to be very very dry. In the trial, they washed with dry shampoo once a week or twice a week or something.

 

[waynakyo]

by the way, is TRICOMIN FDA approved in anyway ? I know that only finasteride and minoxidil are but some people were talking about Tricomin going through the FDA process till phase 2. I found this too:
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-remedy ... omin_1.cfm
does this mean anything ? For example, did they stopped after phase 2?

Thanks

 

[Bryan]

by the way, is TRICOMIN FDA approved in anyway ?

Tricomin isn't FDA approved. The company didn't have the vast amounts of $$$ necessary for that.

 

[waynakyo]

Economically I doubt that argument:

The company didn't have the vast amounts of $$$ necessary for that.

If a project is profitable enough (have a good risk/return profile) it will always find investors...theoretically speaking.
Now I am sure that there are problems with the market, how can an investor know about the product potential ? (moral hazard). Still people from inside the company would have borrowed to finance it.
For me, I take it that most likely it wasn't nearly as good as minoxidil.
Same thing with Intecytex unfortunately. If they knew they were sitting on a treasure they would hesitate much before selling it to someone. I could explain the logic more but I hope you understand what I mean.
Unfortunately no one is behaving like they have discovered the solution.

 

[Bryan]

Economically I doubt that argument:

The company didn't have the vast amounts of $$$ necessary for that.

If a project is profitable enough (have a good risk/return profile) it will always find investors...theoretically speaking.

That's the whole point: it ISN'T profitable enough. Even Rogaine and Propecia were big disappointments to Upjohn and Merck (respectively).

 

[CCS]

PhaseIII trials are expensive. Tricomin did regrow more hair than placebo in the phaseII trials, but the strange thing is the placebo regrew hair too.

Too much piracy out there. People get knock offs at such a low price, dodging royalties, that most companies wound build more similar products. Look at the music industry. All the downloads have dramatically eaten their proffits. Merk is losing money to Indian companies. Why make a hair loss cure that will just be stolen? If the baldies are not greatful, f*ck them.

Now hair cloning has more marketing potential since the places in India can't just mail it to you. Even then, I'm sure if their doctors found out how it works by reading FDA literature, they could pirate that too.

 

[techprof]

ccs,
While I agree in general with you, do you think Merck was right in charging propecia and proscar more or less the same cost?
Aren't they cheaping out baldies in the name of market demand?
When market demand justifies people making ludicrous selling tactics, I don't see anyting wrong in baldies choosing cheaper alternatives.


For godsake, we go to walmart to buy things cheaper eventhough local farmers or grocery shops might lose. Where does this end?

 

[CCS]

ccs,
While I agree in general with you, do you think Merck was right in charging propecia and proscar more or less the same cost?
Aren't they cheaping out baldies in the name of market demand?
When market demand justifies people making ludicurous selling tactics, I don't see anyting wrong in baldies choosing cheaper alternatives.


For godsake, we go to walmart to buy things cheaper eventhough local farmers or grocery shops might lose. Where does this end?

5mg or 1mg probably cost 5 cents to make. The FDA phaseIII trial costs tens of millions. That is the reason why Propecia and Proscar cost about the same amount.

When we buy cheaper products from China, the workers are paid less, but they want to work. No one is being stolen from. We buy Fincar from India, we are ripping off Merk's patent and royalties. If you simply don't have the money to re-imburse Merk even after declining to buy movie tickets and eat out, then obviously you should save your hair by buying from India. But if you can afford Merk, but it is just a trade off between movie tickets or Merk's royalties, pick Merk.

Now if you have some other cosmetic condition you are treating, and can't afford to pay for both, then that is where it gets tricky. If you have some expensive acne prevention treatment, for example, and must chose between it and Propecia, and can't get the acne treatment from India, I'd say go ahead and get the Indian Proscar.

The main thing is, if you are going to buy stuff from India, get Fincar or another 5mg pill and cut it in 4ths. If you are evading Merk to save money, then make sure you really save money.

 

[techprof]

CCS,
FDA phase 3 might cost a lot money. Let me ask you this, let us assume that Merck made significant profit (say 1000 billion dollars), do you think they will cut down the cost of propecia or give it free of cost? No. Because market or economics does not work like that.

Rember Intel used to improve processors from 100 to 133 mhz, (minimal growth) so that they could make a lot of money in the 90s. When AMD came along, the game changed for ever and processor speed increased by an order of magnitude within few months.

It is perfectly acceptable for companies to make profits. Similarly it is perfectly justifiable for any one to find the cheapest source.

Though I was born in India and I am in the US, I buy genuine Avodart from the Glaxo.... This is because I want to be doubly sure.

 

[CCS]

Well, I guess if you buy name brand and someone else buys knock off, the fact is your one purchase won't affect Merk by much, but you will put yourself at an economic disadvantage to the people who get the cheap stuff. So it seems an ethical person would draft up a way to stop all knock offs, not just buy from the inventor. So maybe it is OK for people to pirate then, as long as they are not one of the ones doing the heavy thinking to make the piracy possible.

If you get the 5mg stuff, you benefit yourself but help Merk's competition less. As for being completely sure, I understand. I'm tempted to do straight propecia for that reason too.

Doctors are not supposed to give people Proscar because it violates patent rules, not because of medical reasons. So if you got turned down for proscar, that is why.

 

[Bryan]

Doctors are not supposed to give people Proscar because it violates patent rules, not because of medical reasons.

I've never heard THAT claim before! I'd be curious to hear what a patent attorney has to say about that.

 

[CCS]

Doctors are not supposed to give people Proscar because it violates patent rules, not because of medical reasons.

I've never heard THAT claim before! I'd be curious to hear what a patent attorney has to say about that.

If they can prescribe it off label, I wonder how Merk does their marketing. What is to stop doctors from giving everyone proscar to cut in 4ths? Most people to lazy to cut it to save $60 per month? Does Merk pay doctors to give people propecia instead of proscar?

 

[chore boy]

Bryan,

What makes you think that Propecia was/is viewed as unsuccessful? Surely they turned a profit... same with Rogaine if I had to have my guess.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

What makes you think that Propecia was/is viewed as unsuccessful? Surely they turned a profit... same with Rogaine if I had to have my guess.

They _may_ have turned a profit (it would be interesting to see if they really did recoup the large amount of $$$ that they had to invest in finasteride and minoxidil, to get the extra indication for hairloss), but the point is that they certainly didn't make as MUCH profit as they were hoping for, and expecting. Big Pharma needs to make large profits on a new drug, before it's ever considered successful.

 

[SoThatsLife]

I have read only around 500 000 men use Propecia world wide. So I guess a lot of people have other sources of finasteride, therefor Propecia isn't a pharmaceutical success.

 

[abcdefg]

The whole problem with our 2 current treatments is the target market for male pattern baldness treatments is mainly middle aged men who are in advanced stages of hairloss. Our current treatments are a complete joke in terms of regrowing significant amounts of hair. If science shows us FDA approved amazing results I promise they will see amazing amounts of money its really just that simple. Most men are not worried about male pattern baldness until it becomes obvious which it is then to late to reverse.
Bryan you always seem to preach proxiphen or however its spelled, but what real science is behind that?

 

[Bryan]

Most men are not worried about male pattern baldness until it becomes obvious which it is then to late to reverse.

Which is why I've preached that the earlier you start using finasteride (or some similar related treatment), the better. Hairloss is a perfect example of something where an ounce of prevention is worth a TON of cure!

Bryan you always seem to preach proxiphen or however its spelled, but what real science is behind that?

There's not that much in the way of published studies. It's mainly a matter of trust: I've met Dr. Proctor and shaken hands with him, looked around his office, and talked to him at some length about his experiences and ideas with regard to the medical treatment of balding. He is a very serious medical professional. I have no reason to doubt his judgement when he says, for example, that Proxiphen is more effective than Propecia.