Fine tuning the regimen applications and schedule

[chromedomefear]

Reading and participating in these threads I've seen people post how they use one product in the AM, then another in the PM.....then one after a shower, and then something ten minutes later. I'm now wondering....does the method that certain products are applied, and the chronology or time of day they are applied vary the results? I have the following questions:

Propecia/dutasteride:
Does it matter when I take it?
Does it matter what else I consume in proximity to taking it (ie. foods, drinks, or vitamins)?

Minoxidil:
Does it matter how I apply it? I've been massaging it in side to side over the thin/bald areas with a comb for about 30 seconds (in an attempt to stimulate the area simultaneously).
Does it matter when I apply it (ie. 10 minutes after a shower, 2 hours after a shower, what if I've been sweating profusely or working out)?
What affect, if any, will it have if I get in on existing hair?

Folligen/Prox-n/Tricomin:
What is the recommended technique for application?
With regard to the other products, when should they be applied?


If there is anyone that's got info, and not just some quirky notion or superstition, that can rationalize and recommend a program for my regimen, I would be most gracious...and further educated.

My regimen:
Propecia (soon to be dutasteride) daily in the AM (PM if I forget or skip breakfast)
5% minoxidil once a day before bed (sometimes additionally after an AM shower)
Folligen
Prox-n
Revivogen Shampoo and Conditioner
Nizoral every 3rd day
T-gel every other day


CDF

 

[ANDREW_J_I]

Propecia/dutasteride:
Does it matter when I take it? NO, TAKE SAME TIME EACH DAY THOUGH IS THE BEST WAY MATE.
Does it matter what else I consume in proximity to taking it (ie. foods, drinks, or vitamins)? NO

Minoxidil:
Does it matter how I apply it? I've been massaging it in side to side over the thin/bald areas with a comb for about 30 seconds (in an attempt to stimulate the area simultaneously). SOUNDS OK, JUS MAKE SURE UR WHOLE THINNING AREA SCALP GETS WET WITH IT AND MASSAGE IT IN.
Does it matter when I apply it (ie. 10 minutes after a shower, 2 hours after a shower, what if I've been sweating profusely or working out)?
What affect, if any, will it have if I get in on existing hair? UM, TAKE IT WHEN U WAKE UP ONTO UR SCALP, AND THEN DONT SHOWER FOR 4 HOURS, THATS UR BEST BET. I ALSO WONDER BOUT THE WORKING OUT BIT, AS I WORK OUT 5 TIMES A WEEK HEAVY.

i think u got too much in ur regime. id just stick to the big 3 personally.

 

[chromedomefear]

Thanks for the info. I was just using the big three for about three years now...and I think the effects are fading, so I'm switching to dutasteride, and just adding SODs.....I didn't think it was going too overboard....no?

 

[CCS]

if revivogen shampoo has saw palmetto in it, it might have a slight effect. you might as well buy some saw palmetto capsules for $10 for 60 and squirt one in your folligen, along with a borage seed oil capsule.

unless minoxidil is giving you an inflamed scalp, i'd drop the revivogen and tgel, unless they add body and you think you need it. spend the money on eucapil or buy glutamine capsules or save the money. the nizoral is good.

as for the folligen, use it every other day or every third day.

as for the dutasteride, if you miss a day you can take two the next day, though it is not really needed. i know the label says you can't but that is not true, just like it is not true that minoxidil only works on the back of your head. doctors just like to baby sit people so they don't swallow all 30 at once each month. the main reason for taking it at the same time each day is so you can remember if you took it, and not wonder, "should I take it now or did I already take it earlier today?".

 

[Bryan]

Propecia/dutasteride:
Does it matter when I take it? NO, TAKE SAME TIME EACH DAY THOUGH IS THE BEST WAY MATE.

Shouldn't make the slightest bit of difference whether or not you take it at the same time of day, considering dutasteride's long half-life.

Bryan

 

[CCS]

let me re-iterate:

if you are buying revivogen for the saw palmetto (which stinks and tastes worse), you might as well buy capsules and squirt them in your folligen, because you will save money. I don't know if saw palmetto does work. I doubt it affects DHT, but if you skin lacks certain oils, normally or because of alcohol, it might help restore them, along with borage seed and flax oil, or at least make the alcohol not extract as much from your skin.

and I'm taking a lot of people's word on these SOD's working.

I used to think fluridil is powerful because it looks like flutamide. now that I know how week flutamide is (or so says one study and the fact it has no local effect), I'm thinking maybe spironolactone is better. i can make a good spironolactone cream for $3 per month if I can just be confident it is not fake. But for $3 per month, perhaps i should take that risk until I prove otherwise.

 

[chromedomefear]

Thanks. I already consume flax oil in my foods, and my scalp is resilient to almost anything; never gets red or irritated from anything I've ever used. I guess I'll ditch the revivogen and just go with nano and nizoral for showering, folligen every other day, prox-n on the alternate days, and the dutasteride. Anyone think I'm going overboard, or underboard?

 

[CCS]

I'm sure the nano helps, but it is no where nearly as good a deal as the prox-N. The only reason to buy it is to give your entire scalp a little extra protection, though if it is thick, I think propecia and diluted folligen will keep it there, and you should save your money and use most of your topicals on your thinning areas. But if you only use a little, it might be worth the cost.

I've been recommending elitenetpharmacy to people, but now I'm wondering if http://www.unitedpharmacies.com and http://www.inhousepharmacy.com are better. I'm still interviewing techprofessor and looking at the evidence hairwegoagain has been showing me. I advise buying proscar from a united states pharmacy with a prescription and cutting it in 8 peices and taking one every other day for 0.3mg/day as a precaution while getting your finasteride or dutasteride overseas. 0.2 mg regrows 82% as much hair as 1mg, and 0.3 costs $6 per month full price. Take the overseas stuff simultaneously if you want. I hope they don't mess up the synthesis and make DHT instead of finasteride, since they are similar molecules.

 

[chromedomefear]

I'm sure the nano helps, but it is no where nearly as good a deal as the prox-N.

I'm confused...nano is a shampoo, prox-n is a SOD. You said ditch the revivogen, and I need to wash my hair...so.....what exactly are you saying to do....skip washing my hair and just use prox-n?

I think propecia and diluted folligen will keep it there

How much do you dilute, and why?

I advise buying proscar from a united states pharmacy with a prescription and cutting it in 8 peices and taking one every other day for 0.3mg/day as a precaution while getting your finasteride or dutasteride overseas.

Now I'm really confused dude.....above u said to use propecia and diluted folligen, now here you are saying to get proscar and finasteride, or proscar and dutasteride.....wtf?!?!?! Why would I use proscar with finasteride (or dutasteride)?

Somebody help. Just when I thought I had a good understanding of SOME of this, I find myself confused here again.

 

[Felk]

He is saying ditch the revivogen, as not many people have faith in it. However if you think its working for you, i definately wouldn't ditch it.

Diluting folligen can be helpful, as the stuff is so concentrated. Even Dr Pickart (folligen's inventor) has recommended to use it only every second day.

When you say "use proscar with finasteride?" and are confused, there's an easy explanation. Proscar and propecia are just brand names for finasteride (finasteride). Proscar is 5mg, so if you cut it up its cheaper than Propecia (1mg). Essentially they are the same thing

Ps don't use dutasteride was well as finasteride....

 

[CCS]

you don't need a hair loss shampoo. you can use any shampoo you want. if you get irritation from minoxidil, you might want to pick more carefully. but nizoral 1% is the only shampoo you need to use every 3 days since it may have a chemical in it you need, and will help with minoxidil irritation.

1/8 proscar from a US pharmacy is a back up in case the drugs you buy overseas are fake. Beaner says you can full trust http://www.unitedpharmacies.com. i personally am skeptical of them all until I get the samples mailed to me to test. 1/8 proscar a day will keep you hair with 85% the strength of propecia, and for $6 per month. This is reasonable insureance. i still recommend buying either proscar or dutasteride from united for the chance of a higher dose, but not to depend on it being real. For safety and price concerns, i recommend finasteride 1.25 mg/day or dutasteride 0.5 mg twice a week. And it is safe to take that dutasteride with the finasteride.

I think Felk was concerned about you taking 1.25mg finasteride with 0.5mg dutasteride every day.

Nano should help some, but I doubt it will help much, and it costs a lot. At least it does get your whole head. I would use a small amount of both each twice a week, after a pre-wash with cheap shampoo.

As for the revivogen, you can save money by squirting saw palmetto tablets into your folligen. They stink just as much as the shampoo.

 

[jc444]

Propecia/dutasteride:
Does it matter what else I consume in proximity to taking it (ie. foods, drinks, or vitamins)?

I have read a few articles suggesting that if you drink grapefruit juice with your propecia, it might lead to a higher concentration of the drug being processed by the body, or something like that. This may not help much as a propecia pill will supposedly will give you an optimal dosage of finasteride without the grapefruit juice enhancement. But its just something to be aware of.

 

[Bryan]

I have read a few articles suggesting that if you drink grapefruit juice with your propecia, it might lead to a higher concentration of the drug being processed by the body, or something like that. This may not help much as a propecia pill will supposedly will give you an optimal dosage of finasteride without the grapefruit juice enhancement. But its just something to be aware of.

It comes down to this: which costs more, the grapefruit juice that you have to drink, or the amount of drug that it saves when you drink it?

Bryan

 

[CCS]

I think i'll buy more grapefruit and eat one half of one and when I take my finasteride/dutasteride with water. I'll just chew the fruit really good. thanks for the info.

 

[chromedomefear]

College,

Thanks for the info...but I need a reiteration.

Nano should help some, but I doubt it will help much, and it costs a lot. At least it does get your whole head. I would use a small amount of both each twice a week, after a pre-wash with cheap shampoo.

You wrote 'both'......what is both? You only mentioned Nano. So I can use ABC brand shampoo and conditioner with nizoral evert 3rd day, and that's good as anything else?

So taking 1/8 of a proscar every day, and in addition, .5 of dutasteride twice a week. That is what is recommended? I suppose if my Doctor writes me a script for propecia, he would write me up for proscar also.

And this squirting saw palmetto into folligen....is it really worth all that hassle?

When are you running these tests on the samples from the overseas pharmacies?

CDF

 

[CCS]

no, saw palmetto is not worth the hassle, though I may do it now that i bought it. i only suggested it since you considered spending money on revivogen.

By both, I mean nizoral and Nano shampoo. I'm buying mine at lef.org, but will support dr. proctor by buying proxiphen for my hair line.

I am doing the tests as soon as people send me samples to test.

the 1/8 proscar is what i recommend while using dutasteride from possibly questionable sources, until i do tests. it is still advisable for anyone wondering if the products change after i do the tests. Since i will test one out of every box of 30 when i stock up, i'm not worried, and will stop taking the 1/8 proscar after that.

your doctor will not prescribe both avodart and propecia. just get a prescription for proscar and say you will cut it in 4ths and that dose does not matter much near 1mg. Also, you don't need the same amount each day because with finasteride's short half life, finasteride blood levels vary dramatically throughout the day even with even doses. If you want, you can instead ask for an avodart prescription, but I doubt you will get it unless you ask for one for 1 capsule per week. That is $12 per month for the strength of propecia, but generic proscar is now $30 per month, so it is pointless to get the dutasteride from your doctor unless you plan to get a higher dose from overseas or your doctor will give you a prescription for twice a week.

 

[chromedomefear]

As long as I submit to a blood test every 6 months, my Doctor will prescribe anything I ask him to...within reason. He won't write me up for vicadin just because I want it, but he knows why I'm taking propecia...he thinks I'm silly to be so concerned about losing my hair, yet he has a full mop, but honors my wishes and writes it up every time. He's written me stuff up without seeing me when I'm traveling around the world, and just trusts me in general since I've never abused his casualness with his pen. So I'm confident I will get whatever dosage of Avodart I ask for, but not two different scripts at the same time (ie. propecia/proscar and avodart)

So what should I ask for? How do I take it? And will it cost me a bundle more than getting it from overseas?
------------------------------------------------------
I already bought the revivogen a few weeks back...so that's why I'm using it. I'm sure it can't hurt, so I'd rather not toss it and go buy Nano.
------------------------------------------------------
I'm about to run out of my month's supply of propecia. I still have 3 months of refills left on the script, but I'd rather get moving on making the switch (and my wallet is getting tired of the $65/month propecia casualty).

 

[CCS]

United states Avodart is $90 for 30 capsules at the right pharmacy. Walgreens is $98 or $93. Some charge $115.

I would go with either 2 or 3 times a week. 1x per week is definitely safe for the brain because it inhibits almost no 5ar1. It is about as strong as propecia. 2x per week should reduce 5ar1 in your brain by only 5%, but will cut remaining 5ar2 DHT in follicles to half of what 1x per week would do. 2x is stronger than proscar. 3x per week will reduce 5ar1 produced DHT in the brain by 15%, and 5ar2 DHT everywhere by about 95%.

3x per week is $36 per month, and you know it is real and don't need proscar.

If you cutt up proscar to $6 per month, 3 dutas per week will run you $9 plus the $6 which gives $15 total, and you have to do two pills instead of one.

I would definitely go with the Avodart MWF if I could get a prescription.

Taking 0.5mg every day reduces brain DHT by 50%, which I think is playing with fire. It reduces 5ar2 DHT by only about 98%. I do not think the extra 3% is worth the risk.

If you have the money, you can buy RU58841. It is $400 for 6 months and at the same concentration as DHT will occupy 5.7 times as many androgen receptors as DHT and probably keep all testostosterone away from the receptors. Since the vehicle determines the concentration in the follicles, the vehicle can make RU alone stronger than proscar or weaker than spironolactone cream. Unlike proscar, RU's effects are multiplied by dutasteride, and there are no systemic effects.

 

[LookingGood!]

United states Avodart is $90 for 30 capsules at the right pharmacy. Walgreens is $98 or $93. Some charge $115.

I would go with either 2 or 3 times a week. 2x is definitely safe, and 3x should reduce 5ar1 in your brain by only 15%, but will cut remaining 5ar2 DHT in follicles to half of what 2x per week would do. 1x per week is just weaker than proscar, probably like propecia.

3x per week is $36 per month, and you know it is real and don't need proscar.

If you cutt up proscar to $6 per month, 3 dutas per week will run you $9 plus the $6 which gives $15 total, and you have to do two pills instead of one.

I would definitely go with the Avodart MWF if I could get a prescription.

Where is your evidence based research on this regimen? You are dealing with drug dosages. This sends out the wrong message to balding men that are already down. You really need to check yourself, you are not a doctor.

 

[CCS]

I am not a doctor, but I've seen graphs and research from the scientists who gave the doctors their information. Also, some doctors prescribe Avodart 0.5mg once per day. I am recommending Avodart 0.5mg MWF.
If you look at the graphs I uploaded on my URL in my signature, you will see the steady state serum dutasteride concentrations reached with each dose. If you take that dose, and look at the graph that shows how much of the DHT from each 5ar enzyme is inhibited at each blood concetration, you will see that my numbers are accurate.

The only area I could be wrong on is that perhaps 5ar1 inhibition near 20% could cause psychological changes, especially in people who are deficient, much the way that a very small percentage of men get side effects from propecia, which reduces 5ar2 produced DHT by 80%.

Since FDA deemed 50% 5ar1 produced DHT concentration safe for men with bladder problems, and they get 95+% 5ar2 produced DHT inhibited, I think this guy who is being checked by his doctor every 6 months should be just fine.

Now if Dutas has 2.5 mg per capsule, then a decent the people who are taking my advice will be in trouble, though they will still do better than the FDA phaseIII group that took that much every day.

For the record I recommend that everyone have their liver tested 6 months after taking fasteride or dutasteride. Even if you can't get a prescription, I guarantee you doctor will test you if you ask. And if you notice nerological differences and you are taking at least 2 capsules per week, it could be the dutasteride, though probably is not unless you are taking it at least EOD.