finasteride better than dutasteride in some casese? BRYAN take a look

Bryan

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I've got that study on my "Get List" now, and I'll pick it up the next time I'm at the medical library. My suspicion (and that's all it really is at this point) is that the other variations in the 5a-reductase enzyme that they're talking about are just something associated specifically with prostate cancer. I doubt that this issue is really associated with normal (non-cancerous) individuals suffering from male pattern baldness, but I hope to know more about it after I read that whole study.
 

hair today gone tomorrow

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Bryan said:
I've got that study on my "Get List" now, and I'll pick it up the next time I'm at the medical library. My suspicion (and that's all it really is at this point) is that the other variations in the 5a-reductase enzyme that they're talking about are just something associated specifically with prostate cancer. I doubt that this issue is really associated with normal (non-cancerous) individuals suffering from male pattern baldness, but I hope to know more about it after I read that whole study.

ok bryan...thanks a lot!! if you can just update this thread when you get a chance to read it...Ill try to remind you in a week or so just in case you forget :D
 

hair today gone tomorrow

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Bryan said:
I've got that study on my "Get List" now, and I'll pick it up the next time I'm at the medical library. My suspicion (and that's all it really is at this point) is that the other variations in the 5a-reductase enzyme that they're talking about are just something associated specifically with prostate cancer. I doubt that this issue is really associated with normal (non-cancerous) individuals suffering from male pattern baldness, but I hope to know more about it after I read that whole study.


Bryan, have you had a chance to read that medical report yet? Im curious to hear your input.

Thanks
 

Bryan

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Namaste

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I am the person that posted the link to the full article on HLH. Following is my last HLH post on this subject, which contains my relatively uneducated analysis. I look forward to reading your and Bryan's analysis of the article.

I found the following conclusions to be interesting:

1. "[D]utasteride is a more efficient steroid 5-reductase type II inhibitor than finasteride in vitro for most of the enzyme variants."

2. "However, two of the enzyme variants do not follow this trend: the F194L variant (independently of reaction time) and the P48R variant (but only in the 10-min reaction) display lower apparent Ki (higher affinity) for finasteride than dutasteride."

3. "[T]he pharmacogenetic variation we uncovered for both finasteride and dutasteride is still very significant."

Some of my relatively uneducated thoughts are as follows:

A. This study arguably indicates that someone that has not responded well to finasteride may respond better to dutasteride because dutasteride appears to inhibit certain 5-reductase type II enzyme variants that finasteride does not inhibit. Of course, dutasteride also inhibits a significant level of the type I enzyme (which may or may not be an important factor in hair loss), while finasteride does not (unless an unreasonably high dose is taken).

B. Finasteride may work better for people that have the F194L variant of the type II enzyme (or a relatively large amount of it) but not the variants that are inhibited by dutasteride but not finasteride. I am skeptical that many people, if anyone, would fall into this category, although, I suppose it is possible that inhibiting the 194L variant could be more effective than blocking other variants for some people.

C. It may be beneficial to some people to take both finasteride and dutasteride. Of course who knows how the two drugs may interact with each other or whether taking both drugs is safe?
 

CCS

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hair today gone tomorrow said:
There Bryan posted excerpts from a study showing that some "genotypes" may responded better to finasteride (finasteride inhibits more dht in these genotypes). quote]

Maybe different parts of the scalp have different "genotypes". Why not? They go bald at different rates, don't they?

But I would not go by 5ar inhibition. I'd look at the gene expression for the androgen receptor in that area, and the relative sensitivity to testosterone vs DHT. That is why I tell people to put a topical AR blocker in their shampoo. Nizoral is a good start.
 

CCS

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who am I kidding. An androgen receptor prefering testosterone over DHT? No way. Not unless the excess testosterone were turned into something else worse than DHT. Maybe I should get on 0.1mg of dutasteride per day. Cheap enough.
 

Namaste

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Where are you getting the Piroctone Olamine? I understand that various shampoos have this ingredient, but they don't seem to be sold within the U.S. (being reviewed by the ever slow FDA).
 

CCS

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amazon.com. Free shipping, and it ships from overseas! Go on amazon and search for ginger body shop. You'll find it.
 

Namaste

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Did anyone ever find out approximately how much Piroctone Olamine is in the Body Shop Ginger shampoo?
 

CCS

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Namaste said:
Did anyone ever find out approximately how much Piroctone Olamine is in the Body Shop Ginger shampoo?

They said less than 1%. The one in that study was 0.75%. When I asked some other site how much was in there herbal shampoo, they listed every ingedient: less than 70% water, less than 30% of their detergent, less than 1% of their essential oils, less than 0.5% of some other ingredients. My point is, I think if the body shop stuff was less than 0.5%, they would have said that, instead of saying less than 1%. So it probably is 0.75%.
 

CCS

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bump

maybe take dutas 5x per week and fincar 1.25mg 2x per week, like monday Thursday, just to cover all enzyme types?
 

Nick4441

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I'm on dutasteride twice a week and now added back in 0.25mg on the off days.
6 months of finasteride then dutasteride and no results thought I would try some other variation. I can handle full dose of dutasteride with no sides but only 0.25mg finasteride as I get bad tiredness side on finasteride.
 
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Have I asked this before NIck?

Why are you not on dutasteride every day?

You are NOT on a full dose of dutasteride. The recommended dose for prostate is 0.5 mg, so that's considered a "full" dose on here for hair as well. I'm on it, you should look into it. Or did you have sides on the full dose?
 
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