Fibrosis Of Balding Skin-something That Needs To Be Addressed

[Retinoid]

I have noticed through my research and other people's observations (and my own), that the spots on the scalp that are balding/have lack of hair tend to be slightly thicker and 'tougher'. People who have done their research have undoubtedly come across this already.

It also seems to be less sensitive to things such as---topicals that may burn (for example applying pure peppermint oil or limonene may create a burning sensation where your scalp is sprouting hair but on your bald spot you feel nothing) and also you may have less 'feeling' on the bald spot---such as if you gently make circular motions on your scalp without pressing hard, it has a ticklish massage like feeling in the spots with hair but on the bald spot it is feelingness.

I think this simple observation backs up that without fibrosis of the skin, there is no balding. We can assume DHT and PGD2 and TGF, TNF, bla bla bla all contribute, form or are increased due to this change of the skin that turns your scalp into skin resembling an extension of your forehead eventually. We can also assume that without reversing this fibrosis we will not regrow hair very well.

I am making this thread to ask 1) if their observations are in line with mine about balding skin and 2) if stretching the skin/massaging over many many days eventually restores 'feeling' into the skin. I have noticed at first the stretching is hard and you cannot feel it but over time you begin to 'feel' the stretch which restores some feeling into these spots.

 

[Arrade]

I have noticed through my research and other people's observations (and my own), that the spots on the scalp that are balding/have lack of hair tend to be slightly thicker and 'tougher'. People who have done their research have undoubtedly come across this already.

It also seems to be less sensitive to things such as---topicals that may burn (for example applying pure peppermint oil or limonene may create a burning sensation where your scalp is sprouting hair but on your bald spot you feel nothing) and also you may have less 'feeling' on the bald spot---such as if you gently make circular motions on your scalp without pressing hard, it has a ticklish massage like feeling in the spots with hair but on the bald spot it is feelingness.

I think this simple observation backs up that without fibrosis of the skin, there is no balding. We can assume DHT and PGD2 and TGF, TNF, bla bla bla all contribute, form or are increased due to this change of the skin that turns your scalp into skin resembling an extension of your forehead eventually. We can also assume that without reversing this fibrosis we will not regrow hair very well.

I am making this thread to ask 1) if their observations are in line with mine about balding skin and 2) if stretching the skin/massaging over many many days eventually restores 'feeling' into the skin. I have noticed at first the stretching is hard and you cannot feel it but over time you begin to 'feel' the stretch which restores some feeling into these spots.

Perfect hair health.com is pretty much dedicated to this, I plan on buying the ebook and doing ebook massage protocol

 

[Retinoid]

Perfect hair health.com is pretty much dedicated to this, I plan on buying the ebook and doing ebook massage protocol

I have read his work and find it very interesting. While I do not discount targeting the causes of inflammation (dht and prostaglandins and what not) we cannot deny there is a fundamental change in the actual skin of the scalp that goes beyond these things which is probably why treatments rarely stay effective for more than 5-10yrs. I feel the more I have been stretching and rubbing the bald skin it feels more healthy and I can actually feel sensation on it. Before it almost felt dead.

 

[alebaba]

Perfect hair health.com is pretty much dedicated to this, I plan on buying the ebook and doing ebook massage protocol

Pointless, I did this awhile back for 2 years. I might still have his ebook somewhere, not sure. Hes just another hair like a fox dude.

 

[Retinoid]

Pointless, I did this awhile back for 2 years. I might still have his ebook somewhere, not sure. Hes just another hair like a fox dude.

There is pretty strong anecdotal evidence and a couple of studies that show strong massage and stretching (the stretching seems to be most important) helps with hair loss. Combining this with a dermaroller and a couple of topicals could be very helpful.

While the guy who runs the perfect hair health site does sell an E Book, he also puts all the info for free in his articles on the site. The people touting massage are not pushing a product, just saying to use your hands.

I think it is a mistake to ignore that the scalp skin CHANGES and merely blocking DHT will not change it back once the hair is gone.

 

[Arrade]

I think the whole massage process it to loosen the scalp muscles that get inflamed, which I believe is because of a skull that continues to grow larger in a life time. I've noticed people with small, square foreheads rarely bald.
Small top of head:

Big *** top of head:

 

[Arrade]

Basically from my understanding, the bald spots are calcified skin. I've heard some people taking steps to reduce calcification of arteries and soft tissue managed to regrow hair.
And the reason finasteride may not reverse balding is because it simply stops the calcification (caused by DHT) cascade, it doesn't reverse calcification or increase blood flow bad to the follicles.

 

[Arrade]

Pointless, I did this awhile back for 2 years. I might still have his ebook somewhere, not sure. Hes just another hair like a fox dude.

You did the massaging for two years? What's your hairloss pattern? I.e. thinning, excess sebum, hairline recession

 

[Retinoid]

I think the whole massage process it to loosen the scalp muscles that get inflamed, which I believe is because of a skull that continues to grow larger in a life time. I've noticed people with small, square foreheads rarely bald.
Small top of head:
View attachment 88235
Big *** top of head:
View attachment 88236

I have heard this theory however I guarantee you that if you shaved that guy's head it would look more 'egg' shaped. The hair makes it look more square as you say. I think the balding comes from the actual scalp skin becoming riddled with fibrosis due to various factors. Head development may play a part in the initial cascade of events in some people but I think it is safe to say at this time nobody knows what causes male pattern baldness (initially).

 

[Mykonas]

Most people seem to deny this factor while it's been proven but not investigated enough, if treatments like rch-01 and tsuji or any other cell based therapy fail to deliver in the long run it's going to be because of calcification and fibrosis only trials can affirm or deny this.

 

[Arrade]

I have heard this theory however I guarantee you that if you shaved that guy's head it would look more 'egg' shaped. The hair makes it look more square as you say. I think the balding comes from the actual scalp skin becoming riddled with fibrosis due to various factors. Head development may play a part in the initial cascade of events in some people but I think it is safe to say at this time nobody knows what causes male pattern baldness (initially).

I think inflammation has to be the cause.
Stress increases inflammation. Most balding occurs in the 30s or 40s, when test goes down and estrogen goes up. Estrogen is a stressor in men. I also think sebum production plays a role, sebum clogs the pores and attracts bacteria that eat at the skin.
I do think skull size matters, consider why transgender women gain so much hair? Don't their headshapes drastically change?

 

[Retinoid]

Don't you have a gut feeling that the topical cure will be some simple ingredient derived from some foreign piece of fruit that nobody's ever heard of in the Amazon jungle?

I do not think there is really a cure as there are multiple factors. Right now treatment is fully

I think inflammation has to be the cause.
Stress increases inflammation. Most balding occurs in the 30s or 40s, when test goes down and estrogen goes up. Estrogen is a stressor in men. I also think sebum production plays a role, sebum clogs the pores and attracts bacteria that eat at the skin.
I do think skull size matters, consider why transgender women gain so much hair? Don't their headshapes drastically change?

Everyone has stress. A lot of people who are very healthy bald and very unhealthy people don't. Also a lot of dirty people don't bald.

You cannot say--aha, THIS is what starts the hair loss. It may be different for multiple people. We just do not know.

We know there are certain variables that are related to the balding process.

 

[sunchyme1]

does fibrosis become more difficult to reverse the longer its been going on?

or simply takes longer to get rid of?

 

[Arrade]

does fibrosis become more difficult to reverse the longer its been going on?

or simply takes longer to get rid of?

I think over time it gets thicker, at least that would coincide with the vellus hairs completely disappearing.

 

[sunchyme1]

I think over time it gets thicker, at least that would coincide with the vellus hairs completely disappearing.

but from what youve researched, does this make it more difficult to get rid of? or it just takes longer to get rid of?

 

[sktboiboi]

I have noticed through my research and other people's observations (and my own), that the spots on the scalp that are balding/have lack of hair tend to be slightly thicker and 'tougher'. People who have done their research have undoubtedly come across this already.

It also seems to be less sensitive to things such as---topicals that may burn (for example applying pure peppermint oil or limonene may create a burning sensation where your scalp is sprouting hair but on your bald spot you feel nothing) and also you may have less 'feeling' on the bald spot---such as if you gently make circular motions on your scalp without pressing hard, it has a ticklish massage like feeling in the spots with hair but on the bald spot it is feelingness.

I think this simple observation backs up that without fibrosis of the skin, there is no balding. We can assume DHT and PGD2 and TGF, TNF, bla bla bla all contribute, form or are increased due to this change of the skin that turns your scalp into skin resembling an extension of your forehead eventually. We can also assume that without reversing this fibrosis we will not regrow hair very well.

I am making this thread to ask 1) if their observations are in line with mine about balding skin and 2) if stretching the skin/massaging over many many days eventually restores 'feeling' into the skin. I have noticed at first the stretching is hard and you cannot feel it but over time you begin to 'feel' the stretch which restores some feeling into these spots.

u r right that there is indeed noticeable less sensation in slick bald scalps- and that's because there are no nerve-innervation attached to a growing hair follicle there.

 

[Btg]

I ve seen that UVA-1 phototherapy tends to reverse skin fibrosis , it was also tried for alopecia areata.
curious if anyone tried for Androgenetic Alopecia

 

[Arrade]

I ve seen that UVA-1 phototherapy tends to reverse skin fibrosis , it was also tried for alopecia areata.
curious if anyone tried for Androgenetic Alopecia

I think peeps use a lot of red light therapy over at the ray peat forum, they say it reduces hairloss but increases acne

 

[sunchyme1]

but from what youve researched, does this make it more difficult to get rid of? or it just takes longer to get rid of?

yo @Arrade dont leave me hanging brother!

 

[Arrade]

but from what youve researched, does this make it more difficult to get rid of? or it just takes longer to get rid of?

Probably both