Exploring The Hormonal Route. Hair=life.

[Ikarus]

I could be wrong, but you probably didn't stay on bicalutamide for long enough (1-2 years to see results). A lady who was balding on 50mg cpa + ethinyl estradiol, and finasteride, but she stopped balding with flutamide 250mg and regrew 21% of her hair.

see study: https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(02)04551-X/fulltext

she was a cpa/finasteride non responder like yourself, "Flutamide resulted in a reduction of 21% in Ludwig scores (2.3 ± 0.2 to 1.8 ± 0.1). The other treatment effects were not statistically significant."

the conclusion of the study was that "Flutamide at a dose of 250 mg daily induced a modest improvement in alopecia after 1 year, whereas cyproterone acetate and finasteride were not effective. Treatment for more than 1 year may be required for better results."

this tells us that treatment with AR blockers like flutamine/bicalutamide may take up to 1-2 years to show results.

remember(750mg flutamide=50mg bicalutamide) so 250mg flutamide=16mg bicalutamide and you said you were using up to 200mg bicalutamide. Thats more than 10x the relative dose she was using. Again I could be wrong but Im just trying to give some hope

He has hyperandrogenicity...

Although, I don't think you should use a woman as an example for results. It's a different situation, since women are significantly more sensitive to the effects of androgens. On the other hand, men are significantly more sensitive to the effects of estrogen which could explain why biological men notice faster results.

 

[DHTcel]

I wouldn’t recommend 12.5MG/day to anyone unless they are using it in combination with a viable amount of estradiol. Within a woman, that could be a great dose for treating acne but within men it’s a different situation. I believe the minimum dose for treating androgenic alopecia would be 25MG/day...

Bicalutamide does lead to feminisation; that increase in T is blocked, which makes it irrelevant. T is just recognised by the brain, which lessens the potential for sexual side effects, etc. It’s just that the feminisation isn’t significant enough, it’s minor.

Something I have been wondering about is: since I have been taking E months prior to bicalutamide, would my E levels further increase? (Due to bicalutamide increasing E)

bicalutamide doesn't block T from bones or muscle mass, that is why generally they are maintained after monotherapy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20950306 it also doesn't lower libido in most people

 

[Capone]

wrinkles from E?

I don’t know, maybe because whenever I block 5ar and dht my lines look a lot worse.

 

[Capone]

Best of luck with the e-gel. Give it a shot. Although the last 6 months have had ups and downs, all in all estrogel has not delivered the results I had hoped for. Probably bc I'm not using oral AA in combo.

What about in combo with minoxidil and dermapen?

 

[DHTcel]

I'm not going to because i just finished $9,000 of laser hair removal on my body, and i already have unwanted hair on my head from topical minoxidil (under the eyes, on the nose, on the ears, forehead) so that + vision loss + rapid aging of the skin and heart pains that feel like heart attacks. are why i hope to never touch minoxidil again. i'm hoping to get results without it just like @Ikarus is doing, after 2.5 months of HRT alone it's looking really good, at 6 months i bet there will be no visible hair loss.

anddddd thats why I never decided to use oral minoxidil. hair loss is dictated by androgens and the androgen receptor

 

[Yar]

[QUOTE = "LastHope123, сообщение: 1805895, участник: 141452"] Я не знаю, что вы имеете в виду. Дутастерид / финастерид только ингибирует превращение тестостерона в дигидротестостерон и не влияет на тестостерон. Любой андроген вреден для волосяных фолликулов на коже головы, как для тестостерона, так и для DHT. DHT является более андрогенным и оказывает большее влияние на состояние головы и простаты по сравнению с тестостероном. Тестостерон более важен для половых желез (яичек) и анаболизма (рост / восстановление мышц). Это связано с тем, что большинству людей не нужны лекарства или гормоны, которые влияют на тестостерон. Это имеет хоть какой-то эффект побочных эффектов. Вы сами выбираете, сколько хотите пожертвовать ради выпадения волос.

Технически, даже если вы аннигилируете как тестостероном, так и дигидротестероном, у вас все еще есть андрогены (хотя и слабее, чем тест и дхт), вырабатываемые в корейских надпочечниках. Кроме того, все женщины медленно лысеть. Клетки в теле ограничены, поэтому все клетки кожи головы медленно умирают. [/ QUOTE]

Lol don’t know about the dark side but I will use the smallest of pea amounts, along with minoxidil and dermapen. Here’s hoping. Botox sess next weekend. We only get one shot at this life. Do whatever makes you happy.

without antiandrogen does not work

 

[Capone]

[QUOTE = "LastHope123, сообщение: 1805895, участник: 141452"] Я не знаю, что вы имеете в виду. Дутастерид / финастерид только ингибирует превращение тестостерона в дигидротестостерон и не влияет на тестостерон. Любой андроген вреден для волосяных фолликулов на коже головы, как для тестостерона, так и для DHT. DHT является более андрогенным и оказывает большее влияние на состояние головы и простаты по сравнению с тестостероном. Тестостерон более важен для половых желез (яичек) и анаболизма (рост / восстановление мышц). Это связано с тем, что большинству людей не нужны лекарства или гормоны, которые влияют на тестостерон. Это имеет хоть какой-то эффект побочных эффектов. Вы сами выбираете, сколько хотите пожертвовать ради выпадения волос.

Технически, даже если вы аннигилируете как тестостероном, так и дигидротестероном, у вас все еще есть андрогены (хотя и слабее, чем тест и дхт), вырабатываемые в корейских надпочечниках. Кроме того, все женщины медленно лысеть. Клетки в теле ограничены, поэтому все клетки кожи головы медленно умирают. [/ QUOTE]

without antiandrogen does not work

Nizoral 3 times a week. Some beta sitosterol complex. Should help.

 

[Derelict]

anddddd thats why I never decided to use oral minoxidil. hair loss is dictated by androgens and the androgen receptor

Yeah i wish i tried to tackle hairloss without minoxidil at first but im stuck with it now, oh well. I don't get any side effects from it though other than bloated face which is gone now, no heart or skin aging problems.

 

[I'mme]

Yeah i wish i tried to tackle hairloss without minoxidil at first but im stuck with it now, oh well. I don't get any side effects from it though other than bloated face which is gone now, no heart or skin aging problems.

Dropping it. It's only about 5 days so should not cause be a shed.

 

[bridgeburn]

"In fact, men are at a higher risk than women when it comes to most of the top 15 contributing sources of mortality in the United States—which account for nearly 80 percent of all deaths."

"According to one 2014 study, older men taking testosterone were more likely to experience an acute, non-fatal myocardial infarction 90 days after the first prescription, as compared with prior to the treatment."

http://m.nautil.us/issue/49/the-absurd/why-men-dont-live-as-long-as-women

 

[bridgeburn]

"Women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) carry a number of cardiovascular risk factors and are considered to be at increased risk for atherosclerosis. Elevated concentrations of advanced glycation end-products (AGE), which exert their effects through interaction with specific receptors (RAGE), have been implicated in the cellular and tissue damage during atherosclerotic processes."

" Women with PCOS had higher levels of serum AGE proteins compared to healthy individuals "

"A positive correlation was observed between AGE proteins and testosterone (T) levels"

"A positive correlation was also observed between AGE proteins and the free androgen index (FAI)"

AGEs accumulate with age;

 

[Marky]

"Women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) carry a number of cardiovascular risk factors and are considered to be at increased risk for atherosclerosis. Elevated concentrations of advanced glycation end-products (AGE), which exert their effects through interaction with specific receptors (RAGE), have been implicated in the cellular and tissue damage during atherosclerotic processes."

" Women with PCOS had higher levels of serum AGE proteins compared to healthy individuals "

"A positive correlation was observed between AGE proteins and testosterone (T) levels"

"A positive correlation was also observed between AGE proteins and the free androgen index (FAI)"

AGEs accumulate with age;
View attachment 121233

Way over my head, I'm just hoping to figure out how my iphone can focus in on my tiny dormant hairs for a picture.

Have those freckles disappeared yet?

 

[LEXUS]

1 - I agree, never said otherwise.
2 - I took Dutasteride alongside Bicalutamide/Cyproterone/Lupron and it was useless.

I really don't get why you're saying all of this to me, I never asked you to explain - especially badly. I know what I'm dealing with, and I don't think you know a lot about endocrine system.

And don't forget, you're not a specialist, doctors, so don't tell people "you should take". Because you don't really know what they should take.
And what we are taking shouldn't be recommended ... especially when we don't really know the long term real issues.

you accept everything you don't need. in your case, you only need spironolactone. you say your testosterone is at zero. and what's the point? There are 4 types of androgens. TEST, DHT, ANDROSTENDION and ADNROSTERON. the other two also require baldness. You certainly did not check them. I even think you do not know what it is. you say i don't know? you know no more than me. because you have no results. if you have a high androstendion you will not see the hair. I may not know anything about drugs either. but I can read their instructions. and I know that all 4 androgens cause baldness. bicalutamide is the worst antiandrogen. he does nothing with testosterone. and still your big mistake. You said that testosterone is at zero. Every transsexual knows that feminization requires testosterone at the female level. IF HE IS ON ZERO THAT FEMINIZATION WILL NOT BE. I think that not everyone knows about it.

 

[LEXUS]

View attachment 121234 maybe so clearer.

 

[DHTcel]

bicalutamide is the worst antiandrogen.

nope,

"bicalutamide has been found to be at least as effective as or more effective than flutamide in the treatment of prostate cancer,[38][39] and is considered to be the most potent and efficacious antiandrogen of the three first-generation NSAAs.[83] As such, although bicalutamide has not been compared head-to-head to CPA or spironolactone in the treatment of androgen-dependent conditions, flutamide has been found to be either equivalent or more effective than them in clinical studies, and the same would consequently be expected of bicalutamide. Accordingly, a study comparing the efficacy of 50 mg/day bicalutamide versus 300 mg/day CPA in preventing the PSA flare at the start of GnRH agonist therapy in men with prostate cancer found that the two regimens were equivalently effective."

just 50mg of bicalutamide is = to 300mg cyproterone acetate
considering 50mg cyproterone acetate = 200mg spironolactone
then 300mg cyproterone acetate = 1200mg spironolactone
50mg bicalutamide = 1200mg spironolactone in reducing PSA levels

 

[DHTcel]

View attachment 121234 maybe so clearer.

estradiol can't cause hair loss, try taking tamoxifen and letrozole and see what happens to your hair

 

[revivemycurls]

Hey Bridge, I first your thread from when it was like a few pages...now its a few hundred pages .

I started with finasteride and topical min, later added adenogen and stemoxydine by following el_duterino in a similar forum long ago(2015)

That lost its ground, so I went to more advanced stuff which I currently use since 2018:
0.5mg dutasteride everyday(inspired from peapoddy)
10mg lonitab eod(inspired by anxiousandy)

Now this too is losing efficacy and I have lost a lot of ground. I am desperate to gain my hair back.

I am considering to cypro and estorgen valeriate buccally- similar to you. I would want to start of with cypro, but having no sex hormones I feel would be worse than having estrogen, atleast for the bones.

Why the bones?
Coz i am recovering from an ilizarov surgery(for limb lengthening, and I am scared that estrogen might hamper my consolidation, since I am prescribed a nandrolone 25mg shot a week for callous growth)

Do you think trying one or both of these could be bad for the bones? What do you suggest I start off with to enter the hormonal route ?

 

[itchymadscalp]

you accept everything you don't need. in your case, you only need spironolactone. you say your testosterone is at zero. and what's the point? There are 4 types of androgens. TEST, DHT, ANDROSTENDION and ADNROSTERON. the other two also require baldness. You certainly did not check them. I even think you do not know what it is. you say i don't know? you know no more than me. because you have no results. if you have a high androstendion you will not see the hair. I may not know anything about drugs either. but I can read their instructions. and I know that all 4 androgens cause baldness. bicalutamide is the worst antiandrogen. he does nothing with testosterone. and still your big mistake. You said that testosterone is at zero. Every transsexual knows that feminization requires testosterone at the female level. IF HE IS ON ZERO THAT FEMINIZATION WILL NOT BE. I think that not everyone knows about it.

You're getting boring ........
I did multiple blood checks, and all my androgens were very low (even DHT without dutasteride) and estrogens were high, very high (on EE injection).
Please ignore me. I'm tired of comments like yours.

 

[Obsessive]

Way over my head, I'm just hoping to figure out how my iphone can focus in on my tiny dormant hairs for a picture.

Have those freckles disappeared yet?

Man, I'm really having a hard time understanding why my temples and hairline seem to get worse where I put the e-gel. Sometimes I think it's improving, but then pics show a little recession. Could have happened even without the e-gel but I thought at the very least saturating temples with estro would keep them stable. Could be something in the vehicle that is bad for hair growth-who knows...

 

[Marky]

Man, I'm really having a hard time understanding why my temples and hairline seem to get worse where I put the e-gel. Sometimes I think it's improving, but then pics show a little recession. Could have happened even without the e-gel but I thought at the very least saturating temples with estro would keep them stable. Could be something in the vehicle that is bad for hair growth-who knows...

Or you just have to suffer through the shed - always the hardest part. I've had some noticeable increase in my overall hair thickness last few days, plus curlyness. So fingers crossed for some progress in the temples.