Estrogen and DHT in the Prostate and ...the Scalp?

[SuperMeh]

..personal experience? Yikes.

Mister E, could I ask your opinion on http://www.dimfaq.com/site/toc.htm#chap4 for balancing out estrogen dominance? Just out of curiosity.

Could finasteride raise testosterone levels abnormally high? I know it gives them a boost when you take it, or is the increase nothing to be worried about?

It was my understanding that the T increase was the body trying to compensate for lower DHT no? And DHT does the same as T but attaches to receptors for a much longer time, so if this was the case T levels would have to multiply by many many times to cause any issues. Maybe someone would like to correct me though.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

..personal experience? Yikes.

Mister E, could I ask your opinion on http://www.dimfaq.com/site/toc.htm#chap4 for balancing out estrogen dominance? Just out of curiosity.

Could finasteride raise testosterone levels abnormally high? I know it gives them a boost when you take it, or is the increase nothing to be worried about?

It was my understanding that the T increase was the body trying to compensate for lower DHT no? And DHT does the same as T but attaches to receptors for a much longer time, so if this was the case T levels would have to multiply by many many times to cause any issues. Maybe someone would like to correct me though.

Try and bare with me here...Testosterone is converted into estrogen. Estrogen then inhibits testosterone production. So since estrogen inhibits testosterone production, then you will produce more D.H.T. D.H.T. is what you call a estrogen antagonist, meaning D.H.T. is anti-estrogenic. Removing D.H.T. would be devestating to manhood because you need D.H.T. to properly fuction sexually. The secret is removing estrogen!!!!

 

[barcafan]

How do you (Safely) remove estrogen then? And we're talking about the 'bad' estrogen, too.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

How do you (Safely) remove estrogen then? And we're talking about the 'bad' estrogen, too.

Yes...The bad estrogen. One of the most beneficial things you can do for your health is manipulate estrogen in favor of testosterone...let me explain. Estrogen is eventually and simply put, metabolized either one of two ways, either 2-Hyrdoxyestrogen or 16-hydroxyestrogen. There is very little research available on either one of these metabolites but from what I gathered, I will tell you my view.

D.H.T. is an estrogen antagonist, in other words, it reacts to estrogen. When estrogen is metabolized into 16-hydroxyestrogen, it causes D.H.T. to increase its effects. While 2-hydroxyestrogen actually "knocks off" testosterone from S.H.B.G. making testosterone more "bio-available", making itself "bound" to the S.H.B.G. protein. 16-hydroxyestrogen causes inflammation and inhibits growth hormone. It increases cortisol. It decreases muscle, and most importantly it inhibits testosterone production.

How to avoid this?

Well, Flaxseed is shown to increase the ratio of "good protective estrogens" such as 2-hydroxyestrogen to "bad inflammatory estrogens" such as 16-hydroxyestrogen. D.I.M. also increases estrogen into 2-hydroxyestrogen in favor of 16-hydroxyestrogen.
Flaxseed is what you call a phytoestrogen. In other words a plant estrogen. Understand? A chemical that is shown to not only balance estrogen levels but also androgen levels. The effects are great: strong sexual endurance and lean muscle. Flaxseed is one of the healthiest things you can consume.
D.I.M however is not a phytoestrogen, just a phytonutrient known to inhibit aromatase and alpha-5-reductase enzymes, just like flaxseed. Also flaxseed is known to have extremely strong anti-oxidant properties that propect against diabetes/insulin resistance and atherosclerosis, both major factors in M.P.B.

What increases estrogen?

1. Dairy products are known to be a source of xenoestrogens. Milk is the "big offender"!
2. Plastic water bottles are a strong source of xenoestrogens.
3. Canned food is also a very strong source of xenoestrogens.
4. And sadly baby bottles and canned infant formula, especially when microwaved.
For more information on this please check out the documentary called: The Disappearing Male.

 

[barcafan]

I do not believe these external factors you mentioned contribute in any significant way to our 'problems'

Stress and High GI carbs on the other hand.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

I do not believe these external factors you mentioned contribute in any significant way to our 'problems'

.

Yea, most people don't...Anyway, time will tell.

 

[Bryan]

Try and bare with me here...Testosterone is converted into estrogen. Estrogen then inhibits testosterone production. So since estrogen inhibits testosterone production, then you will produce more D.H.T.

How many times do I have to explain this to you, misterE? Since estrogen inhibits testosterone production, you will produce less DHT, not more. Testosterone and DHT production roughly parallel each other. It's high time that you get that straight!

 

[hairrific]

..personal experience? Yikes.

Try and bare with me here...Testosterone is converted into estrogen. Estrogen then inhibits testosterone production. So since estrogen inhibits testosterone production, then you will produce more D.H.T. D.H.T. is what you call a estrogen antagonist, meaning D.H.T. is anti-estrogenic. Removing D.H.T. would be devestating to manhood because you need D.H.T. to properly fuction sexually. The secret is removing estrogen!!!!

misterE have you gone space case or what? If you inhibit testosterone then you are surley going to have less DHT as a result because DHT is formed from testosterone being converted by the 5ar enzyme to DHT.

 

[Bryan]

misterE have you gone space case or what? If you inhibit testosterone then you are surley going to have less DHT as a result because DHT is formed from testosterone being converted by the 5ar enzyme to DHT.

He's stuck on the idea that the body supposedly produces DHT as a "response" to estrogen, but I've repeatedly pointed out to him that he's wrong. He just won't listen.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

..personal experience? Yikes.

misterE have you gone space case or what? If you inhibit testosterone then you are surley going to have less DHT as a result because DHT is formed from testosterone being converted by the 5ar enzyme to DHT.

What I believe happens is that estrogen suppresses testosterone. As a result D.H.T. becomes the dominant androgen, which is when hair loss occurs. Testosterone is not the enemy. High testosterone is what men are supposed to have. D.H.T. only becomes damaging in response to estrogen. The key is to not inhibit D.H.T. but to attack and destroy estrogen. Your body needs D.H.T. because D.H.T. is the main androgen in every tissue except the muscle. So if you have low testosterone, you are going to have low muscle mass and low aggressiveness.

 

[s.a.f]

Someone get Bryan on here to clear this sh*t up. :shakehead:

 

[Bryan]

What I believe happens is that estrogen suppresses testosterone. As a result D.H.T. becomes the dominant androgen, which is when hair loss occurs.

Why do you have so much trouble understanding all this? :stupid:

Hey numbnuts, DHT roughly parallels testosterone, because DHT is made from testosterone. If you interfere with the production of testosterone in some way (like taking estrogen, for example), DHT will go down IN ADDITION to testosterone. Conversely, if you reduce estrogen by taking an aromatase inhibitor, DHT and testosterone will BOTH go up, not just testosterone.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

What I believe happens is that estrogen suppresses testosterone. As a result D.H.T. becomes the dominant androgen, which is when hair loss occurs.

If you interfere with the production of testosterone in some way , DHT will go down IN ADDITION to testosterone. Conversely, if you reduce estrogen by taking an aromatase inhibitor, DHT and testosterone will BOTH go up, not just testosterone.

Beta sitosterol interferes with the production of testosterone by inhibiting cholesterol absorption. It also is an aromatase and alpha-5-reductase inhibitor; leading to high testosterone, low estrogen, and low D.H.T. Also beta sitosterol is a powerful anti-inflammatory..

 

[Bryan]

Beta sitosterol interferes with the production of testosterone by inhibiting cholesterol absorption. It also is an aromatase and alpha-5-reductase inhibitor; leading to high testosterone, low estrogen, and low D.H.T. Also beta sitosterol is a powerful anti-inflammatory..

Even in the (unlikely?) event that all that happens to be true (I'm not making any assumptions at all about the accuracy of what you say about beta sitosterol, for very good and obvious reasons), so what? What's your point?

I don't care at all if you like beta sitosterol, and want to recommend it to everybody on this forum. But I want you to stop making up this stupid sh*t about how you think the body responds (in general) to estrogen, DHT, etc. You don't know what you're talking about! :smack:

 

[vauxall]

Beta sitosterol [...] is and alpha-5-reductase inhibitor

yes

and an aromatase inhibitor

Not really, unless you have valid sources to prove that, and I am talikng of valid sources, not other crap posted on similar hairloss/bodybuilding forums!

 

[Fam_1st]

No they're caused by the unbalance in Estrogen to Testosterone ratio which the body reacts by producing more DHT.

 

[Bryan]

No they're caused by the unbalance in Estrogen to Testosterone ratio which the body reacts by producing more DHT.

Did you and misterE go to the same kindergarten?

 

[OverMachoGrande]

No they're caused by the unbalance in Estrogen to Testosterone ratio which the body reacts by producing more DHT.

Exactly! When estrogen is more dominate over testosterone; therefore your body produces D.H.T. (which is five times as strong as testosterone) to try to compensate.

 

[Bryan]

Exactly! When estrogen is more dominate over testosterone; therefore your body produces D.H.T. (which is five times as strong as testosterone) to try to compensate.

No, stupid, it doesn't do that.

 

[patagonia]

Exactly! When estrogen is more dominate over testosterone; therefore your body produces D.H.T. (which is five times as strong as testosterone) to try to compensate.

No, stupid, it doesn't do that.

...lol...