Dr. Lee CHANGED his mind about topical finasteride?

[Cassin]

There are three big hair loss doctors on these forums

Dr Lee
Dr Pickart
Dr Proctor

they all have their fans & critics. Personally I like them all altho I haven't tried any of Proctors products yet since they seem so pricey. If he ever gave out a free sample I would love to try his stuff.

 

[moxsom]

Bryan,

Could you please provide full citation information for that Rushton and Ramsay study? I would like to read it.

 

[rcom440]

Ok err before you go slagging him, i think he is really honourable.

Oh and bryan, why don't you go release a hairloss product since you've done so so much research on the topic.

I also think that Bryan should develop his own hair loss product line. He's been studying the subject for years... why not?

 

[timbo]

I haven't read the study in a while but i believe 2 mg of topical finasteride daily was enough to lower the serum dht by 40%. Am I the only person that sees how this could be beneficial to hairloss? I don't think Dr. Lee got out of control here.

 

[cateyes81]

so i guess no one had the balls to contfont him eh

 

[cateyes81]

anyways i think he meant that the way the guy was planning on putting finn on his head would not work as u cant just try and turn ur own finn into liquid solution im sure the scalp wont absorbe it the way dr lee did it makes sure our scalp absorbs the finn

 

[beaner]

anyways i think he meant that the way the guy was planning on putting finn on his head would not work as u cant just try and turn ur own finn into liquid solution im sure the scalp wont absorbe it the way dr lee did it makes sure our scalp absorbs the finn

If you read what he wrote again you'll find that it's pretty clear that he thinks topical finasteride does not work.

 

[jbhkhc]

Does anyone have a pdf or url to the Rushton and Ramsay study? I'd like to read it before making my own decisions.

Thanks :hump: :innocent:

 

[Risugo]

Bryan,

I have learned a lot while reading your posts but one thing always puzzled me, why you do not present your treatment regimen.
And by the way please advice me on mine, I am 37 years old and in the past 4/5 years my male pattern baldness as not changed much meaning almost no hair lost and no hair regained. 5 years on finasteride, 2 years on Minoxidil 5% and almost 2 years on Nizoral. What shall I do to try improve things?
Add Dutas, increase minoxidil concentration from 5% to 15%, add something new to my hair like Hair Signals or something else?

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

Could you please provide full citation information for that Rushton and Ramsay study? I would like to read it.

I read it as one of the chapters in a medical book, and I'm not sure if it's been published separately as a study in a medical journal. But here are the particulars: Rushton DH, Norris MJ, Ramsay ID. 1996. "Topical 0.05% finasteride significantly reduces serum DHT concentrations, but had no effect in preventing the expression of genetic hair loss in men." In: D. Van Neste and V. Randall. Hair Research for the Next Millenium, Amsterdam: Elsevier. p. 359-362.

Here's a copy of a post I made a few years ago about this very same study, over on HLH:

We have to keep in mind that doctors and scientists are regular people just like the rest of us, and sometimes jump to conclusions and make errors, also just like the rest of us. I was amused by something written in the following study from 1996, which certainly doesn't seem that long ago: "Topical 0.05% finasteride significantly reduced serum DHT concentrations, but had no effect in preventing the expression of genetic hair loss in men", D.H. Rushton, M.J. Norris, and I.D. Ramsay. From the book "Hair Research for the Next Millenium", 1996.

I don't recall the names Norris and Ramsay, but Rushton is DEFINITELY well-known as a hairloss researcher. I've seen him and his articles/studies referenced many times. However, in the one above, they unsuccessfully tried topical finasteride (the title pretty much says it all), and they made the following amusing statement at the very end of their paper (added emphasis is my own):

"...These findings suggest that in individuals in whom hair follicles have little or no type-II 5a-reductase activity, topically applied inhibitors like finasteride are unlikely to be effective. Oral Proscar (5 mg finasteride) is also unlikely to be effective unless metabolites with different specificity to 5a-reductase isozymes are produced. We therefore eagerly await the arrival of a type-I or mixed 5a-reductase inhibitor."

Ok, now I know that hindsight is always 20-20, and it's not nice to poke fun at what was said a few years ago when there was less information available than there is today. But I think those guys deserve at least a LITTLE ribbing, because there was a study with stumptailed macaques published as early as 1992 (four years BEFORE this one) which successfully tested finasteride for hairloss. I find it amusing that just because of the failure of their little topical experiment, they conclude that Proscar isn't going to work for male pattern baldness, and they're "eagerly awaiting" the arrival of a type 1 inhibitor, which they think is going to do a slam-bam job against hairloss!

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

I have learned a lot while reading your posts but one thing always puzzled me, why you do not present your treatment regimen.

Huh?? I've presented and discussed my treatment regimen a whole bunch of times, over the years! The reason I haven't done it much lately is for a couple of reasons: I've already talked about it so much, I assume that everybody already knows all about it; and secondly, I don't really do much anymore in the way of treating my own hair, anyway. I continue to be very interested in the science of hairloss, even if I'm finding it to be too much trouble to apply topicals every day, as I get older and older.

The foundation of my treatment (when I was bothering to do it every day) was Dr. Proctor's products, which included Prox-N, NANO Shampoo, and Proxiphen. I consider them to be probably the best treatments available.

Other things I've experimented with over the years were my own topical concoctions which included spironolactone, phenytoin, green tea extracts, Retin-A, linoleic acid, 11a-hdroxyprogesterone, and probably other substances which I'm forgetting at the moment.

And by the way please advice me on mine, I am 37 years old and in the past 4/5 years my male pattern baldness as not changed much meaning almost no hair lost and no hair regained. 5 years on finasteride, 2 years on Minoxidil 5% and almost 2 years on Nizoral. What shall I do to try improve things?
Add Dutas, increase minoxidil concentration from 5% to 15%, add something new to my hair like Hair Signals or something else

I'm certainly not a big fan of using increased minoxidil concentrations! I strongly suggest that you add other substances which are currently completely MISSING from your regimen; something like copper-peptides would be an obvious choice (Hair Signals or Tricomin or Folligen or Dr. Proctor's products). You might also consider Dr. Proctor's products for all the other things they contain, which are exclusively associated with him; for example, phenytoin, NANO, and the powerful "turbocharged" SODs like TEMPO/TEMPOL and PBN. He seems to think the latter ingredients are the most important ones of all.

 

[cateyes81]

so all this ranting and raving the forum has come to the conclusion that xandrox plus is fake without even talking to 2 dr lee lol


was my slight improved results placebo? :woot:

 

[Cassin]

good to read you like Hair Signals Bryan!

 

[rcom440]

Bryan seems to like product with copper peptides therefore he likes Hair Signals, but what about beta-sitosterol?

I wouldn't dismiss Dr. Lee's Xandrox 15 Plus and 6% Minoxidil Plus without seeing what he has to say about his statements. I've read some positive reviews from people who used topical finasteride but who's knows..

 

[timbo]

Xandrox has produced great results for my hair, so naturally I giggle inside when people dismiss its efficacy.

 

[cateyes81]

actually the more i think about it the more it hink the e mail is probably made up because just last year dr lee personally told me if i went on xandrox plus i could probably save money and stop taking my proscar pills alltogether


why on earth would he tell his own paitent to stop taking propecia and conintue with topical finn if he did not believe in it?


I still kept taking proscar cause i dont care about money when it comes to my hair i will pay anything or do anything for the best results but just goes to show dr lee was willing to inform me he blieves if i quit proscar and stayed on topical finn i would still maintain the hair i have


whoever did that e mail is probably faking it or something cause it makes no sense, probably a poster out to ruin dr lee cause they are mad at him or something

 

[rcom440]

why on earth would he tell his own paitent to stop taking propecia and conintue with topical finn if he did not believe in it?

exactly

 

[JWM]

whoever did that e mail is probably faking it or something cause it makes no sense, probably a poster out to ruin dr lee cause they are mad at him or something

The person who posted that back in 2007 was KielMck, who just happens to be the biggest fan of Xandrox and Dr. Lee's products on this board. He has a 40-something-page thread on how well Xandrox is working for him. He posted that reply from Dr. Lee BEFORE he started using Xandrox. It is NOT a "made up" reply.

 

[ryan r]

actually the more i think about it the more it hink the e mail is probably made up because just last year dr lee personally told me if i went on xandrox plus i could probably save money and stop taking my proscar pills alltogether


why on earth would he tell his own paitent to stop taking propecia and conintue with topical finn if he did not believe in it?


I still kept taking proscar cause i dont care about money when it comes to my hair i will pay anything or do anything for the best results but just goes to show dr lee was willing to inform me he blieves if i quit proscar and stayed on topical finn i would still maintain the hair i have


whoever did that e mail is probably faking it or something cause it makes no sense, probably a poster out to ruin dr lee cause they are mad at him or something

So, you still have all your hair?

 

[timbo]

actually the more i think about it the more it hink the e mail is probably made up because just last year dr lee personally told me if i went on xandrox plus i could probably save money and stop taking my proscar pills alltogether


why on earth would he tell his own paitent to stop taking propecia and conintue with topical finn if he did not believe in it?


I still kept taking proscar cause i dont care about money when it comes to my hair i will pay anything or do anything for the best results but just goes to show dr lee was willing to inform me he blieves if i quit proscar and stayed on topical finn i would still maintain the hair i have


whoever did that e mail is probably faking it or something cause it makes no sense, probably a poster out to ruin dr lee cause they are mad at him or something

So, you still have all your hair?

Re-read his post. He said he stayed on proscar, so how would that prove anything?