Do androgens DIRECTLY affect the hair follicles?

[Boba155]

Can anyone provide me a study of this? I.e. Something that proves that androgens from the blood stream have a DIRECT effect on the hair follicles, such as entering the follicles and binding with enzymes there to produce growth inhibitors.

Thanks.

 

[Boba155]

Nope, not what I was looking for. Anyone else?

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

Yes.

 

[Bryan]

Nope, not what I was looking for. Anyone else?

What exactly are you looking for?

Yes, androgens affect hair follicles directly.

 

[freakout]

Do androgens DIRECTLY affect the hair follicles?

Adversly? Of course NOT!

If that's the case, all men will begin balding right after puberty. While genetics has been 50 years of junk science.

 

[John979]

I think what the OP means is does circulating DHT contribute to male pattern baldness?

I have not found a study which ever quantify the effect of circulating DHT vs. Scalp DHT. Certainly Scalp DHT is the primary problem, with circulating DHT being secondary, which is the reason why Dutasteride is more effective than Finasteride.

 

[Bryan]

Do androgens DIRECTLY affect the hair follicles?

Adversly? Of course NOT!

If that's the case, all men will begin balding right after puberty.

I've already explained that to you several times, but you just keep turning a deaf ear to me. If you're not going to listen to any of this and you're simply going to ignore serious scientific discussions and explanations, then JUST GO AWAY.

 

[freakout]

How many times will I tell you that there are studies that point otherwise.

Unlike the other sites you frequent, Hair Loss Talk is a BONAFIDE hair loss site.

Unless you keep AN OPEN MIND and stop behaving like a Terminator T-1000, YOU GO AWAY, BRYAN, because it's becoming too obvious that I'm touching on a precarious belief.

 

[balder]

Androgens appear to act directly on scalp hair follicles in the male pattern baldness regions of scalp, causing miniaturization. I suspect that the evolutionary reasons why this is true is due to some very ancient genes of an early monkey ancestor of both modern apes and humans. Those genes became relics that were passed on similar to vestigial organs like the human appendix and tonsils that have no role or a very reduced role.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9496234

Balding hair follicle dermal papilla cells contain higher levels of androgen receptors than those from non-balding scalp.

Hibberts NA, Howell AE, Randall VA.


Department of Biomedical Sciences, University of Bradford, UK.
Abstract

Androgens can gradually transform large scalp hair follicles to smaller vellus ones, causing balding. The mechanisms involved are unclear, although androgens are believed to act on the epithelial hair follicle via the mesenchyme-derived dermal papilla. This study investigates whether the levels and type of androgen receptors in primary lines of cultured dermal papilla cells derived from balding scalp hair follicles differ from those of follicles from non-balding scalp. Androgen receptor content was measured by saturation analysis using the non-metabolisable androgen, [3H]mibolerone (0.05-10 nM) in a 9-10 point assay. Pubic dermal fibroblasts and Shionogi cells were examined as positive controls. Repetitive assays of Shionogi cells showed good precision in the levels of androgen receptor content (coefficient of variation = 3.7%). Specific, high affinity, low capacity androgen receptors were detected in dermal papilla cells from both balding and non-balding follicles. Balding cells contained significantly (P < 0.01) greater levels of androgen receptors (Bmax = 0.06 +/- 0.01 fmol/10(4) cells (mean +/- S.E.M.)) than those from non-balding scalp (0.04 +/- 0.001). Competition studies with a range of steroids showed no differences in receptor binding specificity in the two cell types. The higher levels of androgen receptors in cells from balding scalp hair follicles with similar properties to those from non-balding scalp concur with the expectations from their in vivo responses to androgens. This supports the hypothesis that androgens act via the dermal papilla and suggests that cultured dermal papilla cells may offer a model system for studying androgen action in androgenetic alopecia.

 

[Bryan]

I have not found a study which ever quantify the effect of circulating DHT vs. Scalp DHT. Certainly Scalp DHT is the primary problem, with circulating DHT being secondary...

I think you're overlooking a third category, which is the most important of all for healthy hair growth: follicular DHT. Don't worry so much about circulating DHT or "scalp DHT", worry about DHT inside the hair follicle itself.

...which is the reason why Dutasteride is more effective than Finasteride.

Dutasteride more completely suppresses the formation of DHT in all three of the previously mentioned categories. That's why dutasteride is more effective than finasteride.

 

[freakout]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9496234

Balding hair follicle dermal papilla cells contain higher levels of androgen receptors than those from non-balding scalp.

When under stress, cells tend to produce more receptors including enzymes.

I prefer in vivo studies. We know, in vitro studies don't always translate to real life situations e.g. anti-oxidants - perfect in the lab but sucks in large scale epidemiological studies..

 

[John979]

Balder;

That study I have seen. I would like to see one separating the contribution of scalp DHT from circulating DHT.

 

[balder]

Androgen receptor blockers can regrow scalp hair, which seems to be evidence that androgens have a type of direct effect on the follicles themselves, that can be mitigated by preventing androgens from hooking up with those hair-follicle-cell receptors...

 

[freakout]

"Androgenetics" differenciates testosterone from DHT as opposed to androgens which stands for both testosterone and DHT.

So JohnNYC may have meant "circulating DHT" as opposed to circulating testosterone. Correct me if im wrong.

 

[John979]

Found soemthing:

Comparative studies on level of androgens in hair and plasma with premature male-pattern baldness

Hyo-Jung Bangab, Yoon Jung Yanga, Dong-Seok Lhoa, Won-Yong Leeb, Woo Young Simc, Bong Chul Chunga


Received 20 August 2003; received in revised form 18 November 2003; accepted 19 November 2003.

Abstract
Background: It is well known that male-pattern baldness (male pattern baldness) is not started from occipital, but frontal or scalp of head. We can assume that distribution of androgenic steroids is different for each region of the head. Objective: We hypothesize that the levels of androgenic steroids are different not only between vertex hair with male pattern baldness and controls but also between occipital hair with male pattern baldness and controls. Moreover, we want to search for the biochemical indicator in plasma and hair sample (baldness: 22, non-baldness: 13) obtained from dermatology of medical center. After then, we desire to present fundamental data regarding diagnosis, medical cure, and prevention for premature male pattern baldness. Methods: After hair and plasma were hydrolyzed, and then extracted with organic solvent. To assess androgenic steroids levels, we used gas chromatography–mass spectrometry (GC–MS) system in selected ion monitoring mode. Results: The level of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone (T/E ratio) in vertex hair from premature baldness subjects were higher than in the sample of non-baldness subjects (P<0.001, 0.001), whereas the levels of androgens in occipital hair from the same baldness group were not different. In addition, we discovered the levels of DHT, testosterone, and DHT/T ratio in plasma from premature male pattern baldness were higher than in those of control subjects (P<0.001, 0.001, 0.005). Conclusion: We verified that the distribution of androgenic steroids is unlike in various regions of individual subjects. Moreover, the increased DHT/T ratio in balding plasma indirectly confirms the high activity of 5?-reductase type II.

 

[optimus prime]

ok, so what does this mean?

 

[John979]

ok, so what does this mean?

DHT sucks.

 

[armandein]

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v116/ ... 0945a.html
Biochemical Roles of Testosterone and Epitestosterone to 5alpha-Reductase as Indicators of Male-Pattern Baldness
In establishing a theory to predict male-pattern baldness, we investigated the correlation of testosterone, epitestosterone, and dihydrotestosterone with 5alpha-reductase in hair using gas chromatography-mass spectrometry. One hundred milligram hair samples were obtained from a group of balding subjects and their sons, as well as from a corresponding aged-matched, nonbalding group. The ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone was significantly greater (mean 46.41, p <0.001; mean 35.83, p <0.001, respectively) in the hair of balding fathers (n = 19, age 28–50 y) and their sons (n = 16, age 8–16 y) than in the hair of the nonbalding control subjects (mean 9.17 and 10.47, respectively). These findings demonstrate that analysis of terminal hair may not only provide a basis for predicting baldness when the subject is still young, but also for preventing and treating male-pattern baldness by controlling the steroid hormone balance.

 

[armandein]

By the way. Hamilton said in a study in 1943
"There is no evidence that premature alopecia is caused by
excessive quantities or unusual types of androgens."
And more:
"The normal androgenic secretion of the suprarenal gland does not incite baldness."
to download the file:
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v5/n6 ... 4262a.html

I've been stone

 

[armandein]

Off the topic
Balder
your icon is an ouakari?