Dispensing with old-fashioned male pattern baldness theories, and one NEW one!

[Bryan]

malnutrition, cancer treatment? The androgen theory is getting old Bryan. It probably contributes to hairloss but it is not the main factor. Yes there is EDEMA on top..

Edema is swelling resulting from the building up of excessive fluids in the tissue. The skin in the affected area will become stretched and appear shiny. Stephen is bang on.

Can you do any better than Stephen Foote did at trying to explain why androgens suppress the growth of scalp hair at the same time that they stimulate the growth of body hair, and they do that in vitro, complete away from any areas with fluid build-up or edema? His feeble efforts to try to explain that were simply laughable. Very embarrassing.

 

[squeegee]

malnutrition, cancer treatment? The androgen theory is getting old Bryan. It probably contributes to hairloss but it is not the main factor. Yes there is EDEMA on top..

Edema is swelling resulting from the building up of excessive fluids in the tissue. The skin in the affected area will become stretched and appear shiny. Stephen is bang on.

Can you do any better than Stephen Foote did at trying to explain why androgens suppress the growth of scalp hair at the same time that they stimulate the growth of body hair, and they do that in vitro, complete away from any areas with fluid build-up or edema? His feeble efforts to try to explain that were simply laughable. Very embarrassing.

Bryan, Even if I took heavy dose of dutasteride which is a strong DHT Killer, I was still loosing ground then got worst. Like I said, DHT is not the culprit. That theory in the real world barely work . This is very embarrassing. How long you been saying the same old story on every forums? Why there is still people loosing hair? Do you have a head full of hair Bryan? Yes there is Edema, inflammation and Fibrosis in a bald scalp. The androgen is just a factor. Malnutrition Bryan?I went to Afghanistan a couple times.. A lot of old damn locals have a full head of hairs.. they are skinny like zombies and eat sh*t all the time. They smoke opium and they smell so hard core that makes your eyes leaking just like you peeling a f*****g onion. They also wear f*****g turbans at melting temperature..The androgen always have an effect on body fluid. Body Builders suffers from water retention from steroids. The lymphatic system and sex hormones have something in common.. Watch the bald people.. they have f*****g edema.. YOU cannot deny it. The extra sebum is caused by oxidation at the area.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, Even if I took heavy dose of dutasteride which is a strong DHT Killer, I was still loosing ground then got worst. Like I said, DHT is not the culprit. {snip}

I agree with you to a certain limited extent: DHT is waaay over-emphasized on hairloss forums! Haven't you ever noticed that _I_ pretty seldom even mention it, except on fairly rare occasions when somebody mentions it to me or asks me about it specifically? DHT is the most potent androgen in our bodies, but it's certainly not the ONLY androgen. I feel all of them contribute to balding. Just because YOU didn't do so well on dutasteride certainly doesn't disprove the standard medical view that androgens are very important in balding, and certainly isn't a good reason to start entertaining weird theories that other things like "edema" are what cause it.

So I guess the answer to the question I asked you earlier is NO, you can't explain the "edema theory" any better than Stephen Foote can?

 

[squeegee]

Bryan, Even if I took heavy dose of dutasteride which is a strong DHT Killer, I was still loosing ground then got worst. Like I said, DHT is not the culprit. {snip}

I agree with you to a certain limited extent: DHT is waaay over-emphasized on hairloss forums! Haven't you ever noticed that _I_ pretty seldom even mention it, except on fairly rare occasions when somebody mentions it to me or asks me about it specifically? DHT is the most potent androgen in our bodies, but it's certainly not the ONLY androgen. I feel all of them contribute to balding. Just because YOU didn't do so well on dutasteride certainly doesn't disprove the standard medical view that androgens are very important in balding, and certainly isn't a good reason to start entertaining weird theories that other things like "edema" are what cause it.

So I guess the answer to the question I asked you earlier is NO, you can't explain the "edema theory" any better than Stephen Foote can?

Bryan! Not really but I can say is Edema= big time inflammation. You totally right about DHT as the strongest androgen. What about others factors like Lipoprotein A, DKkK-1 or hypercoagulability??? What about HOMEOSTATIC IMBALANCE? It feels like something is creating an hypoxia environment at the scalp..

 

[DarkDays]

The reason you are all men is thanks to DHT. Those who lack DHT tend to become pseudohermaphrodites.

Now, the thing is, I know of people who have become eunuchs(through orchi or SRS) and still tend to lose hair, albeit much more slowly than before which shows that there is more to it(or just that testosterone will always affect it no matter how low it is).

 

[abcdefg]

As usual in issues like male pattern baldness there are too many questions and not enough definitive answers. Men when injected with large amounts of testosterone lose hair so it just makes sense that low amounts of testosterone over time would slowly cause a little hair loss. Let me say this Every man I have have ever seen that is over 30 and has a Norwood 0 teenage hairline has no facial hair at all. Most women I know have 0 hair loss and no facial hair. There must be some connection and androgens or just hormones seem like a very very good fit. It might be just as simple as all androgens is the solution but science has not made anything able to safely to do that yet.

 

[armandein]

Interesting your comment, but clearly you don't live in Australia

I would say: people without male pattern baldness has scarcy body hair mainly if are genetically prone to hair thiner and not ondulate

 

[abcdefg]

I will say this I have most of my hair with very slow minor loss. My hair loss on my head correlates back to growth of facial hair, and body hair like chest hair almost exactly slowly over the years. I have little doubt androgens might be the sole cause of male pattern baldness we just need more powerful androgen inhibitors to see if its true for sure. I want to see CB 03 01 and how that works out especially even on body hair or facial hair to see if it can actually stop it or reverse it. Many important questions in hair loss still to be answered

 

[NotEnough]

Re: hypoxia

Bryan! Not really but I can say is Edema= big time inflammation. You totally right about DHT as the strongest androgen. What about others factors like Lipoprotein A, DKkK-1 or hypercoagulability??? What about HOMEOSTATIC IMBALANCE? It feels like something is creating an hypoxia environment at the scalp..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_preservation
Simple, common sense deduction in plain sight. Read the section "artificial food additives" and you have your indisputable answer to what is causing hypoxia in the scalp. The pattern is created simply by commonly shared blood flow patterns. The more sulfites and dioxides in the blood, the quicker you achieve hypoxia. Don't worry about the finer mysteries of why the back and sides of scalp aren't effected. Jus be concerned about the fact you are killing yourself. The key is to stop ingesting preservatives that kill living cells. And you all are so confused about the root cause of inflammation? It's our poor bodies struggling to survive and trying to revive what we're killing/preserving. Embark on a preservative, dioxide, paraben, sulfite, etc. free diet and see if you don't experience the blessings of a lifetime.

 

[Armando Jose]

You are right about artificial food additives, but,... I want to know why the back and sides aren`t affected by common hairloss

 

[NotEnough]

That's like a triple bypass patient asking the surgeon why he didn't require a quad. Why didn't the other artery get clogged? At some point, when there is an obvious "pattern" of dietary toxicity and abuse, one can continue down the path of asking questions pertaining to healthy hair, or begin focusing on the hair they are losing - and why.
Perhaps the toxic additives are bathing the scalp more heavily based on blood flow. Perhaps the vasorestriction is more prominent at the top of the skull based on vessel size in comparison. My assertions stand firm and the science and research relating to the specific damage of specific preservatives should be enough for at lease one of you to enjoy the eureka moment and go save your hair, your health and your future. My advice: Live in the truth. Enough said. (And that goes for the ingredients in your vitamin supplements with cyanide and even more sulfites in the gel caps and dioxides)

 

[BlackSheep]

As usual in issues like male pattern baldness there are too many questions and not enough definitive answers. Men when injected with large amounts of testosterone lose hair so it just makes sense that low amounts of testosterone over time would slowly cause a little hair loss. Let me say this Every man I have have ever seen that is over 30 and has a Norwood 0 teenage hairline has no facial hair at all. Most women I know have 0 hair loss and no facial hair. There must be some connection and androgens or just hormones seem like a very very good fit. It might be just as simple as all androgens is the solution but science has not made anything able to safely to do that yet.

The stereotype of balding men being "stocky" and "hairy" is a popular one among older physicians in the UK. So there does seem to be some very broad general wisdom there.

I don't think that stereotype applies with men who have diffuse hair loss such as myself. On my mother's side, all the men have full-fledged male pattern baldness and aren't too hairy. My father OTOH has a relatively normal hairline for his age and is twice as hairy as any of my maternal uncles.

It's an interesting pairing of anecdotes right there, but they may not necessarily contradict one another.

 

[princessRambo]

Miniaturized Androgenetic Alopecia hair regrows on immunodeficient mice.

Bryan! Not really but I can say is Edema= big time inflammation. You totally right about DHT as the strongest androgen. What about others factors like Lipoprotein A, DKkK-1 or hypercoagulability??? What about HOMEOSTATIC IMBALANCE? It feels like something is creating an hypoxia environment at the scalp..

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I think this thread offers some of the most educative/intelligent back-and-forth I have read about hair loss. Anyhow, I came across this study that clearly debunks Bryan's theory rotest: about the problem being entirely in the hair follicle itself. If the tiny miniaturized hairs grow fully/terminal on immunodeficient mice then clearly that is strong evidence that Androgenetic Alopecia is caused by factors like inflammation as an immune response, and clearly the environment surrounding the hair is key as Foote pointed out. When I first started researching about hear loss, I kept reading people posting ad-nauseam that transplanted miniaturized hair were doomed, regardless of being transplanted in non-balding area, and it probably would on the same scalp, but that's not the whole picture, immune response is key.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12734505

This report shows that miniaturized hair follicles of pattern alopecia can quickly regenerate once removed from the human scalp and can grow as well as or better than terminal follicles from the same individual.

 

[odalbak]

If my memory serves me right this study was discussed in the past especially in 2005, including by Bryan, but the hypothesis of an immune problem at the root of male pattern baldness got out of fashion on this forum after a while. I think it's good to speak about it again. For the record, here's what Bryan said about it in 2009:

"The theory that it's the body immune system that attacks follicles causing them to shrink over time has been a controversial over the years. I don't know if there's really any truth to it. I don't see any real NEED for the immune system theory at the present time, but that certainly doesn't prove that it's absolutely incorrect. I've just seen no clear proof or even evidence that it really does do that. The closest thing that comes to that would be the much-discussed study about how balding human hair follicles transplanted onto immune-deficient mice regrow comparably well as non-balding hair follicles, but that's about it. I've never seen any other study which suggests or even hints that the immune system "attacks" hair follicles. "


Problem is nothing in this study shows us what could be the very cause of that immune response. One possibility that I think is worth considering is a systemic imbalance in androgen production that could trigger it. The response of hair follicles to androgens could be a hill shaped curve. Then what is the root cause of that androgen imbalance? But I'm digressing…

 

[abcdefg]

I just want to see a good solid study on CB 03 01 that shows us what strong competition for the androgen receptors with both T and DHT does in terms of hair loss. I am also curious to see what it does to facial hair and body hair anywhere else. The androgen route is still not fully understood. While male pattern baldness might be complicated androgens are the only theory proven to halt male pattern baldness completely so the answer might be simpler if its possible to safely stop androgens topically which might turn out to be impossible. Hopefully CB 03 01 lives up to the hype and works as well as it could.

 

[Armando Jose]

In order to understand the whole picture is better consider the "pilosebaceous unit" instad only hair follicle. Trasplanted hairs contains also sebaceous gland, bulge region etc.