Cyclodextrin complexed RU58841/Dutasteride (Localized transfolliclar delivery)

[FollicleGuardian]

Thank you a lot. I will be ordering finasteride powder and "2-hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin". I will keep you posted on the evolution of the results with photos in the next 6 months.

Last question: To avoid using too many topicals, I would like to replace my PG / WATER / ETHANOL base with a classic formulation of 5% minoxidil. But I guess it will hurt the experience?

Yes you would need this cyclo solution completely separate from all other topicals, as clean as possible

 

[MrKmass]

Yes you would need this cyclo solution completely separate from all other topicals, as clean as possible

Thank you for all those informations. I start as soon as possible.

 

[whatevr]

Depends on the compound

And there is no way to find out which ones are compatible unless someone has already done a study with the combination?

 

[FollicleGuardian]

And there is no way to find out which ones are compatible unless someone has already done a study with the combination?

That’s right you’ll need some info

 

[MrKmass]

1:1 molar concentration, so divide your cyclo’s molecular weight on the active ingredients (finasteride here) and youll get how many mg cyclo per mg active ingredient.

To be sure not to make a mistake : The molecular weight of the cyclo I am ordering is 1180.05 g / mol, finasteride is 372.549 g / mol. So I should mix around 3.16 mg cylco per mg finasteride?

 

[FollicleGuardian]

To be sure not to make a mistake : The molecular weight of the cyclo I am ordering is 1180.05 g / mol, finasteride is 372.549 g / mol. So I should mix around 3.16 mg cylco per mg finasteride?

Yes

 

[corkmeister]

And there is no way to find out which ones are compatible unless someone has already done a study with the combination?

This study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28652706/ seems to confirm that cyclodextrin beta would work with finasteride. Although based on what I've read I would expect the others to work as well.

I'm going to run my own experiment with this, starting off with minoxidil because I'm very sensitive to and experienced with minoxidil sides. So I'll be able to estimate how much of it is going systemic. I'd preferably use alpha or gamma because beta's solubility in water is much lower but I guess I'll just have to see if it works. I tried ordering from cyclodextrin-shop but it says there are no shipping options available (which is weird since they're based in the country where I live).

 

[whatevr]

Enantiodiscrimination of equol in β-cyclodextrin: an experimental and computational study - Journal of Inclusion Phenomena and Macrocyclic Chemistry

The interaction between the equol enantiomers and β -cyclodextrin is studied by molecular mechanics and molecular dynamics calculations. The chromatographic retention order is determined by these theoretical methods and compared with experimental findings. In the molecular mechanics...

link.springer.com

Equol could apparently be complexed with beta-cyclodextrin. That's something I might try because I had good results with high-dose equol, but also a lot of side effects as well. If I could contain it to the follicle... could be powerful.

 

[corkmeister]

Being able to deliver drugs like this selectively via the follicular route would be an absolute game changer. It will still go systemic obviously (seeing as how the bulb is surrounded by capillaries) but relatively speaking it should be far more effective. It might make stuff like topical finasteride much more viable.

I find it surprising that there hasn't been more research on this, especially because the idea that hair loss drugs would ideally be delivered exclusively through the follicle seems to be accepted in the literature. Let's just hope that there's some truth to this.

 

[Randomdude]

Why not just buy this. For minoxidil users.

Contre la perte des cheveux chez l’homme & la femme | ALOPEXY®

ALOPEXY® est un produit efficace contre la chute des cheveux héréditaire chez l'homme et la femme. Plus d’informations sur l'application et le mode d'action ici !

www.pierre-fabre-dermatologie.ch

There is 1 negative review by LouisSarkozy, but testing this ready product it seems more precise way to test if the chemical works (for minoxidil), compared to home brew.

 

[constrictedvoid]

Enantiodiscrimination of equol in β-cyclodextrin: an experimental and computational study - Journal of Inclusion Phenomena and Macrocyclic Chemistry

The interaction between the equol enantiomers and β -cyclodextrin is studied by molecular mechanics and molecular dynamics calculations. The chromatographic retention order is determined by these theoretical methods and compared with experimental findings. In the molecular mechanics...

link.springer.com

Equol could apparently be complexed with beta-cyclodextrin. That's something I might try because I had good results with high-dose equol, but also a lot of side effects as well. If I could contain it to the follicle... could be powerful.

What dose, what sides, what signs of efficacy?

 

[FollicleGuardian]

Equol would be interesting! What kind of side effects did you have? @whatevr

 

[FollicleGuardian]

The interesting this is that max 10% of the scalp area is follicular openings. We can’t stop it going systemic but 90% less. Chances are high that we wonmt get sides at such a small systemic dose.

 

[whatevr]

Equol would be interesting! What kind of side effects did you have? @whatevr

Gyno, brain fog... I used huge doses of like 60 mg / day. It was quite effective though, stopped my hair loss completely and began looking healthier very fast. I was only on for a few weeks though, couldn't take the sides.

I probably had the vast majority of that going systemic (ethanol + PG vehicle), so if cyclodextrin can help as much as claimed then I could maybe use 10 mg and have it be more effective with less sides. In theory.

 

[constrictedvoid]

Gyno, brain fog... I used huge doses of like 60 mg / day. It was quite effective though, stopped my hair loss completely and began looking healthier very fast. I was only on for a few weeks though, couldn't take the sides.

I probably had the vast majority of that going systemic (ethanol + PG vehicle), so if cyclodextrin can help as much as claimed then I could maybe use 10 mg and have it be more effective with less sides. In theory.

No sexual dysfunction?

 

[whatevr]

No sexual dysfunction?

I already had pretty severe sexual dysfunction back then since quitting F.i.n. Hard to say. But yes if that much equol went systemic you wouldn't be thinking about sex I guarantee it.


Anyway I wanted to bring up something that worries me and it is what @LouisSarkozy mentioned regarding his experience with cyclodextrin minoxidil.
He said he still had skin side effects (presumably talking about facial side effects) which implies that the stuff went systemic.

@FollicleGuardian when you say "it will prevent systemic sides, but not skin sides", I don't understand that. To me, something not being systemic means it stays in or around the follicle. If the minoxidil made it from the hair follicle all the way to his face, that means it was in the bloodstream, and once it's in the blood, it's everywhere.

I guess you can argue that a lesser percentage of the active ingredient will be distributed and maybe the concentration was too much and the hair follicle was oversaturated, by that point no more could attach to the DP and the rest just spills over systemically.

I still intend to try it, I'm just a bit wary of the hype since it sounds a little too good.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

I already had pretty severe sexual dysfunction back then since quitting F.i.n. Hard to say. But yes if that much equol went systemic you wouldn't be thinking about sex I guarantee it.


Anyway I wanted to bring up something that worries me and it is what @LouisSarkozy mentioned regarding his experience with cyclodextrin minoxidil.
He said he still had skin side effects (presumably talking about facial side effects) which implies that the stuff went systemic.

@FollicleGuardian when you say "it will prevent systemic sides, but not skin sides", I don't understand that. To me, something not being systemic means it stays in or around the follicle. If the minoxidil made it from the hair follicle all the way to his face, that means it was in the bloodstream, and once it's in the blood, it's everywhere.

I guess you can argue that a lesser percentage of the active ingredient will be distributed and maybe the concentration was too much and the hair follicle was oversaturated, by that point no more could attach to the DP and the rest just spills over systemically.

I still intend to try it, I'm just a bit wary of the hype since it sounds a little too good.

Why would cyclodextrin prevent skin sides? Even if you had the best vehicle ever made you are still applying it to the skin? Cyclodextrin is all about limiting the systemic burden.

The active ingredient will still hit the skin cells right? But not absorb further. However when affecting skin cells you should expect skin sides no?

 

[Murkey Thumb]

I would imagine E2 estrogen would be a good candidate for cyclo especially if you could get higher doses. Your scalp would think it's female but you wouldn't get the tits. The only skin side would be getting to look younger.

 

[FollicleGuardian]

I would imagine E2 estrogen would be a good candidate for cyclo especially if you could get higher doses. Your scalp would think it's female but you wouldn't get the tits. The only skin side would be getting to look younger.

If it works with less risky compounds first this is the obvious choice

 

[whatevr]

Why would cyclodextrin prevent skin sides? Even if you had the best vehicle ever made you are still applying it to the skin? Cyclodextrin is all about limiting the systemic burden.

The active ingredient will still hit the skin cells right? But not absorb further. However when affecting skin cells you should expect skin sides no?

He is applying it to the skin on the top of his scalp. How does the minoxidil end up reaching the skin on his face? Either:

a) Via the bloodstream (systemic distribution)
b) Diffusing down through the skin from the scalp to the face

In both of those cases, it shows that the molecules are not staying attached to the DP, which is how I understood this compound was supposed to help.