Cut and grow at the same time?

[mulder]

I know most people say you can't lose weight and get real muscle gains at the same time. Is this actually true?

Basically I'm already pretty muscular and not looking to add any more 'bulk' but I'd like to add some muscle to specific areas- upper chest, lower-mid back, lower thighs, calves, forearms- as well as getting 'hard'. Is it possible top eat more on say one or two days surrounding 'mass building' workouts, while eating less the rest of the time, thereby gaining muscle when working those specific regions while losing mostly fat the rest of the week??

 

[Prada1]

Depending on your caloric intake you will either gain weight or lose weight. If there is a deficit, meaning you are consuming less then you need, you will lose weight. In order to lead to hypertrophy you need to consume more then your base daily needs. Its a very implicit explanation but it all has to do with your macronutrient consumption. Cut your calories on off days since you will be spending less calories.

 

[CCS]

it is sort of true: not in the same workout. you can cut and bulk at different times during the same day though.

 

[Harie]

If you are overly fat, you can cut and also gain muscle (not as much as if you were maintaining an anabolic state). Otherwise, no, you can't be in calorie deficit and expect to gain muscle mass unless you're geared up.

Your body will burn muscle for energy before it'll burn fat unless you trick it. Even then, you'll still have muscle loss on a cutting diet...Just not as much.

 

[CCS]

and you use carb cycling to trick it? My abs are looking a LOT better. I've been using gear to cut though.

 

[Harie]

and you use carb cycling to trick it? My abs are looking a LOT better. I've been using gear to cut though.

Yup, carb cycling, fasted cardio, cardio after lifting weights etc.

I thought you gave up on Epistane? I've been reading about Anavar and Turinabol (OT) lately. Both seem to be easy on the ol' hairline. From what I was reading, it seems that Halodrol is decently similar to OT.

 

[CCS]

I do fasted cardio. On some days when I don't eat much, I live on fish and yogart, so maybe that is carb cycling, though it is not deliborate.
Nice thing about cardio after a workout is your testosterone levels are high and should save some muscle. I don't do it though. I'd rather use that time to build while my muscles are so willing to grow. That method is better for guys who have a lot to lose.

Still losing Epstane. I do 9 sets of chest/tri, and 9 sets of back/bi, and Epistane lests me fully recover from that in 3 days. I take 3 pills, spread throughout the day on the workout and a day after, then a day off. Getting better at squats too, and chin ups are a lot easier. Going to start adding weight.

 

[CCS]

and you use carb cycling to trick it? My abs are looking a LOT better. I've been using gear to cut though.

Yup, carb cycling, fasted cardio, cardio after lifting weights etc.

I thought you gave up on Epistane? I've been reading about Anavar and Turinabol (OT) lately. Both seem to be easy on the ol' hairline. From what I was reading, it seems that Halodrol is decently similar to OT.

I think my RU will take care of my hair. I'll look into those later after I finish my epsitane. I'm not getting any acne, and I'm not even taking B5. Just GTE in my body wash. Considering the price of this stuff, I should be fine to wait.

 

[mulder]

If you are overly fat, you can cut and also gain muscle (not as much as if you were maintaining an anabolic state). Otherwise, no, you can't be in calorie deficit and expect to gain muscle mass unless you're geared up.

Your body will burn muscle for energy before it'll burn fat unless you trick it. Even then, you'll still have muscle loss on a cutting diet...Just not as much.

Well I have a layer of flub on me now so there is calories to work with. What do you think about the idea of having one or two growth lifting days for muscle growth and focusing on fat burning/muscle preservation the rest of the week?

 

[mulder]

If you are overly fat, you can cut and also gain muscle (not as much as if you were maintaining an anabolic state). Otherwise, no, you can't be in calorie deficit and expect to gain muscle mass unless you're geared up.

Your body will burn muscle for energy before it'll burn fat unless you trick it. Even then, you'll still have muscle loss on a cutting diet...Just not as much.

Just out of curiousity what would be the ideal 'gear' for someone trying to cut (mostly cut) and build at the same time?

 

[CCS]

If you are overly fat, you can cut and also gain muscle (not as much as if you were maintaining an anabolic state). Otherwise, no, you can't be in calorie deficit and expect to gain muscle mass unless you're geared up.

Your body will burn muscle for energy before it'll burn fat unless you trick it. Even then, you'll still have muscle loss on a cutting diet...Just not as much.

Well I have a layer of flub on me now so there is calories to work with. What do you think about the idea of having one or two growth lifting days for muscle growth and focusing on fat burning/muscle preservation the rest of the week?

that would work. People who are cutting had better still be lifting, so their muscles stay sensitive to testosterone and don't get catabolised as fast.

 

[mulder]

Good article on carb cycling:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783

This seems like a good approach for me...except I'll be consuming fewer calories of course. One muscle gain day and the rest moderately catabolic- aiming for fat loss and muscle preservation. Think it will work?

 

[CCS]

I think carb cycling is BS. Yes, Hairy will disagree. But here is why, in my opinion:


I think (without even having read the article) that carb cycling is done to reduce glycogen stores so you can burn fat. But basically you are just dieting.

If you eat the same number of calories, you will put those calories straight on as fat, and then burn them off again. Better to avoid putting the fat on the first place and leave it as glycogen to save muscle and give you energy.

If you actually are dieting though, so you don't put on fat, then why not eat a higher ratio of carbs? I do agree that if you diet, you need to keep your protein and essential fatty acids up, and just reduce carbs and excess fat. So having less than 50% carbs on a diet day makes sense. But I see no point in cutting out all carbs one day and replacing them with protein and fat.

As long as your body is dieting, I don't think you will trick it. Nor do I think tricking is necessary. You will always burn more fat than muscle unless you have a hormone imbalance. You also will loose some muscle when cutting, but it may be only 10-20% of the lost mass. Take HMB if you want.

Maybe ketosis will shet fat faster, but I'm not sure I want to go into ketosis much. I probably do on my own now and then though, just when opening a can of mackerel is faster than cooking some oats.

 

[CCS]

if dieting over night, take HMB. If doing a long fat burn first thing in the morning, take more HMB. I take Epistane too. Stay around 130 BPM for an hour or two (two only if on Epistane). The only reason not to go too long is when your testosterone levels drop, you burn more muscle.

Then keep working out later in the day. You'll burn 500+ calories of fat per day, and still build muscle, more than what is lost in the morning. I doubt carb cycling is good, though I don't know. I read half of one article and it did not convince me.

 

[CCS]

maybe I'm missing out by not carb cycling, but I can tell you my abs are looking good, and my system seems to work for me. If I was 50 pounds over weight, maybe I'd read the article.

 

[mulder]

If you're really focused on bulking up right now I don't think you should really carb cycle. Just eat healthy and clean, make sure to eat less carbs on off days.

Carb cycling will probably work well for me though. I'm going to try it out but will be quite moderate about it.

 

[hopewas]

to get cut,you have to eat right..mostly protein, do lots of cardio like running and superset with weights..which means you give yourself no recover time between sets or barely any recover time. there's no way around it if you want to get cut. for the last month it's what i've been doing. i used to be muscular in bulk but i hated how if i stopped it would turn to flab eventually. so i started cutting this last month. i'm a lot leaner and cut now. me and my friend use several methods in supersets that work well.. one is a bicep curl superset.

ex : i do 10 reps of a weight, pass it to him, he does 10 reps..then immediately he gives me it back and i do 9 reps, pass it to him, he does 9 reos.. then he passes it back to me and i do 8, etc..until we get down to one. this exercise will get your biceps cut in no time...as long as you don't cheat. you don't even have to use heavy weight. use light weight ..by the time you're done, it'll feel like 500 pounds

 

[mulder]

Whats fasted cardio? is this doing cardio before breakfast?

Pretty much. I started doing it.

 

[powersam]

everything you have read is bullshite basically.

muscle you are using will not be burnt for energy before fat, it is as simple as that. and it makes complete sense if you think about it for half a second also.

lift, eat, rest. rinse and repeat. everything else is window dressing.

 

[mulder]

This might sound pretty lame....but what do you guys thinking about flexing during cardio...would that make any difference while you're doing cardio? I know Arnold was big on the merits of flexing for growth, maybe it's good for muscle preservation? :lol: