Current Condition 17 Months On Finasteride And 3 Months On Dutasteride

[MKP05]

Normally male pattern baldness isn't about the shedding, but 300 a day is well above normal. Something is aggravating your conditon.

I’m the exact opposite. I never see more than a few hairs in the sink or in my hands even when I shake my head vigorously. But the changes to density, thickness and recession are very evident and occurring at a rapid pace. I’ve set the bar so low that now I’m just hoping to slowly go bald. Unfortunately my hairline is where my forelock used to be and my temples are reaching my mid scalp in a matter of 20 months. What I would do for the hair I had in November. Or even early February.

 

[MKP05]

Your hair really isn't that bad yet. I'm younger than you, and I'm just hoping to get back to where you are now. When your hair is dry people probably don't even notice you're balding.

. Maybe you’re younger and have more loss but how quickly are you losing hair? I’ve lost almost 3/4 of an inch at the hairline alone in the last 18 months. 2 inches at one temple and 1.5 at the other. The top has thinned out considerably but I can still keep it covered to give the appearance of no hair loss. If you never met me before you might think “that guy’s hair isn’t bad for his age but he’s got some definite recession going on.” If you know me you’d be saying to yourself “holy sh*t he’s receding fast”. It’s all relative. I’d rather have started losing my hair 5 years ago super slowly than 2 years ago at warp speed.

 

[MKP05]

I went from fullhead to NW3 hairline with scalp visible all over even with dry hair in just one year. I lost like 75% of my density in that time. You are losing it slowly compared to some of us, so I guess you should be happy.

That sucks man. I looked a little bit at your history and saw that you were on finasteride for a bit, got off and then got back on. And that you were making some progress. What happened?

 

[MKP05]

I went from fullhead to NW3 hairline with scalp visible all over even with dry hair in just one year. I lost like 75% of my density in that time. You are losing it slowly compared to some of us, so I guess you should be happy.

That sucks man. I looked a little bit at your history and saw that you were on finasteride for a bit, got off and then got back on. And that you were making some progress. What happened?

never mind. I think I pieced it together. You jumped on finasteride only after you had reached a certain point which was pretty bad. I guess what has me frustrated is that I didn’t wait. I jumped on finasteride as soon as my temples started receding rapidly over the course of 2 months. Never got any sides but the hair loss just accelerated to my forelock and mid scalp before stabilizing at 6 months in those areas. But my temples and hairline never stabilized and have been receding from the beginning. I would’ve done anything just to maintain what i had or at least lose it more slowly.

 

[MKP05]

I know I’m not gonna get much sympathy being that I’m an old f*** but I’ve had areata since I was 25. So I know a thing or two about dealing with disfiguring hair loss at a young age. By the time I made it to my mid 40s I figured that I could deal with the areata episodes but thankfully I had good hair otherwise. Now I have both and the male pattern baldness is aggressive if finasteride and dutasteride can’t slow it down. I don’t feel very lucky.

 

[MKP05]

Yeah, I bought into the fear around it. I wish I had started it when I first started losing. If finasteride doesn't stop your hair loss the next step is dutasteride, then you can get into other things like PGD2 blockers. There's always more options, it just depends on your risk tolerance. I don't think it matters much how old you are, hair loss sucks no matter what.

I don’t know much about PGD2 blockers. I’ve seen some discussion around them on these forums but haven’t paid too much attention because I tend to be on the cautious side (to a degree. After all I did jump on dutasteride).

At this point I’d probably try just about anything to simply slow the rate of loss. It’s not the fear of going bald that terrifies me as much as the rate at which I’m losing. Going bald sucks but at least Id like to go out with a more gradual decline.

 

[justbeconfident]

Yeah, I bought into the fear around it. I wish I had started it when I first started losing. If finasteride doesn't stop your hair loss the next step is dutasteride, then you can get into other things like PGD2 blockers. There's always more options, it just depends on your risk tolerance. I don't think it matters much how old you are, hair loss sucks no matter what.

I guess we have same hair loss, i went from thick full head, to nw2.5 and diffused all over with scalp visible in like 2 years, which is f*****g mad sh*t.
Did u hop on dutasteride urself?
I think its time for me to get on duta, ive been on finasteride for 5 months and i see no results, same rate of losing 250-300 hairs per day. Duta sides are scary *** sh*t tho

 

[justbeconfident]

Yes, I'm on dutasteride now. It's great. Side effects are really no different than finasteride. If you're good on finasteride you'll be good on dutasteride.

how long r u on duta comparede to finasteride? see any results so far? what sides u got? same as on finasteride, but exacerbated?

 

[bluecyclone]

I guess we have same hair loss, i went from thick full head, to nw2.5 and diffused all over with scalp visible in like 2 years, which is f*****g mad sh*t.
Did u hop on dutasteride urself?
I think its time for me to get on duta, ive been on finasteride for 5 months and i see no results, same rate of losing 250-300 hairs per day. Duta sides are scary *** sh*t tho

Did you rework Finasteride? I know that has been the ‘logical’ progression Finasteride to Dutasteride but if Finasteride didn’t help or perhaps hurt won’t the Dutasteride do the same thing such as in the case of the OP?

 

[DoctorHouse]

Let's get back to talking about your identical twin brother. So you are saying he has no hair loss at all? I think he is the key to figuring out what went wrong for you. Do you have any photos of his hair versus your hair now?

 

[justbeconfident]

Did you rework Finasteride? I know that has been the ‘logical’ progression Finasteride to Dutasteride but if Finasteride didn’t help or perhaps hurt won’t the Dutasteride do the same thing such as in the case of the OP?

well, duta worked well for many people for whom finasteride didnt do anything, plus there arent many options available for use

 

[bluecyclone]

true. Trying to get more information on Dutasteride and fertility, my urologist acts like it’s safer than Finasteride.

Shame how off modern medicine is because of big pharmaceutical.

I have a bottle ready to try but I’m scared.

 

[MKP05]

Let's get back to talking about your identical twin brother. So you are saying he has no hair loss at all? I think he is the key to figuring out what went wrong for you. Do you have any photos of his hair versus your hair now?

He doesn’t have hair loss like I do. Just a typical maturing hairline consistent with our age. I had the same hairline and progression as him until 2 years ago. For example my hairline has moved up almost 3/4 of an inch in 2 years. The temples about 2 inches. His hairline hasn’t moved and If he’s had any recession at his temples it is minor. Here is a picture of his left temple versus mine. Sorry the first picture is blurry but I had to zoom in. But clearly you can see an enormous difference.

 

[DoctorHouse]

He doesn’t have hair loss like I do. Just a typical maturing hairline consistent with our age. I had the same hairline and progression as him until 2 years ago. For example my hairline has moved up almost 3/4 of an inch in 2 years. The temples about 2 inches. His hairline hasn’t moved and If he’s had any recession at his temples it is minor. Here is a picture of his left temple versus mine. Sorry the first picture is blurry but I had to zoom in. But clearly you can see an enormous difference.

I see the difference. Do either of you suffer from more stress, anxiety or depression? If so, how much compared to him? Two factors could be involved in your case. One, the drugs can trigger a hormonal shift causing the balding gene to become more sensitive and triggered. Second could be epigenetic where your environmental influences differ in some ways.

You do realize you can really help us out with genetic balding and clear up the conspiracy theory if indeed these medications can make your balding pattern accelerate faster than if you did nothing. I can tell you when I first went on finasteride about 15 years ago I really believed after 8 months on it, it actually accelerated my loss. In that short amount of time, I lost more hair than my whole life time. But I was told it was a shed and I would recover. But I later found out, I was genetically a poor responder to finasteride so I had to find an alternative treatment. I decided to go with Proxiphen and continue with finasteride just in case I was wrong. After a 15 years, I have maintained fairly well but never back to baseline. I come from a strong history of balding on my father's side with high NWs and genetically tested positive to have the balding gene. So either my balding pattern is a snail's pace genetically with or without medications, or the medications are slowing it down.

 

[MKP05]

I see the difference. Do either of you suffer from more stress, anxiety or depression? If so, how much compared to him? Two factors could be involved in your case. One, the drugs can trigger a hormonal shift causing the balding gene to become more sensitive and triggered. Second could be epigenetic where your environmental influences differ in some ways.

You do realize you can really help us out with genetic balding and clear up the conspiracy theory if indeed these medications can make your balding pattern accelerate faster than if you did nothing. I can tell you when I first went on finasteride about 15 years ago I really believed after 8 months on it, it actually accelerated my loss. In that short amount of time, I lost more hair than my whole life time. But I was told it was a shed and I would recover. But I later found out, I was genetically a poor responder to finasteride so I had to find an alternative treatment. I decided to go with Proxiphen and continue with finasteride just in case I was wrong. After a 15 years, I have maintained fairly well but never back to baseline. I come from a strong history of balding on my father's side with high NWs and genetically tested positive to have the balding gene. So either my balding pattern is a snail's pace genetically with or without medications, or the medications are slowing it down.

I think we both suffer from stress and we’re both fairly anxious by nature. I would say that my life is more stressful than his (I had kids over 10 years before he did, I commute 1.5 hours to work while he works from home are two examples which come to mind). He has suffered with minor bouts of depression over the years but right now I’d say I’m suffering from this and probably not in a mild way either. The bald gene runs in the family as we have 2 uncles on my fathers sure who are NW7 although our father never went completely bald (he’s 80 and still has decent hair for his age). I’ve been racking my brain for two years trying to figure out why this suddenly occurred. Before I got on medication I was hit with temporal recession which came out of nowhere and visible losses were seen within a 2 month period. After a few months on finasteride my condition accelerated greatly and spread to the entire Norwood region. So I went from temporal recession (albeit quick) to miniaturization across the entire Norwood region a few months after starting treatment. I do have a history of alopecia areata which he doesn’t have and I was treating a bad outbreak on the back of my head when the temporal recession started. As the hair on the back of my head began to fill back in from treatment (corticosteroids and 2 rounds prednisone pulse therapy) the hair in the front was receding rapidly. Another user - Anatoly- theorizes that the corticosteroids created a dependency that, when withdrawn, triggered this cascading affect on the rest of the scalp. I’ll admit that from the beginning I have questioned the timing of my pattern loss which began exactly one month after starting treatment for the areata (which I had not had for 10 years after suffering intermittently for the 10 years prior to that). The timing certainly seems suspicious. But what triggered the areata episode after 10 years? 2 months prior to my areata coming back I sustained a very bad laceration to one of the knuckles on my left hand. It was a cut which probably required medical attention but I stubbornly refused. It never became completely infected although it looked like it might be. I’ve always wondered if that injury was the catalyst for all my hair loss - like it just shocked my immune system so badly that it triggered both the areata and the pattern loss. I also moved into a new house 3 years prior to this all starting. Is there some other environmental issue (Ie mold exposure) which I’ve overlooked? I’m probably grasping at straws though. There are so many variables which are in play. All I can say for sure is that my recession came on very rapidly one month after starting treatment for areata, it accelerated after starting finasteride treatment, and neither finasteride nor dutasteride has stopped the recession from progressing quickly over less than 2 years.

I’ll never get back to baseline. I’ve accepted that long ago. All I want to do is slow down the progression. Since starting dutasteride the only change I’ve seen is that the back of my head has thinned out considerably and no longer grows to the length it once did. The hair shafts have now shrunk in diameter. It was the only area where i still had normal healthy hair. And now that seems to have been compromised as well. Yet I’m terrified to stop treatment because I know that this will simply invite DHT to come invading back in and take everything I’ve got left. Not sure what to do quite frankly.

 

[MKP05]

Ramatroban is a potent one. The safety profile on PGD2 blockers is pretty good, the problem is they are only available from Chinese labs. The risk comes not from the drug but the byproducts of the cheap synthesis process they use. Then you have some powerful growth options like PGE2, wnt disinhibitors, and stronger anti-androgens like spironolactone. If you really want to keep your hair you can get on cypro and estradiol, but you're going to get gyno.

I’m willing to take some risks and already have but if there is a high probability of getting gyno or some other very feminizing trait then I’m not interested. I’ve already gone outside of the FDA approved protocol with dutasteride. I’d probably consider a transplant for the hairline but I have too many things working against me - potentially compromised donor zone, diffuse loss, not adequate stabilization/maintenance of existing hair.

 

[DoctorHouse]

I think we both suffer from stress and we’re both fairly anxious by nature. I would say that my life is more stressful than his (I had kids over 10 years before he did, I commute 1.5 hours to work while he works from home are two examples which come to mind). He has suffered with minor bouts of depression over the years but right now I’d say I’m suffering from this and probably not in a mild way either. The bald gene runs in the family as we have 2 uncles on my fathers sure who are NW7 although our father never went completely bald (he’s 80 and still has decent hair for his age). I’ve been racking my brain for two years trying to figure out why this suddenly occurred. Before I got on medication I was hit with temporal recession which came out of nowhere and visible losses were seen within a 2 month period. After a few months on finasteride my condition accelerated greatly and spread to the entire Norwood region. So I went from temporal recession (albeit quick) to miniaturization across the entire Norwood region a few months after starting treatment. I do have a history of alopecia areata which he doesn’t have and I was treating a bad outbreak on the back of my head when the temporal recession started. As the hair on the back of my head began to fill back in from treatment (corticosteroids and 2 rounds prednisone pulse therapy) the hair in the front was receding rapidly. Another user - Anatoly- theorizes that the corticosteroids created a dependency that, when withdrawn, triggered this cascading affect on the rest of the scalp. I’ll admit that from the beginning I have questioned the timing of my pattern loss which began exactly one month after starting treatment for the areata (which I had not had for 10 years after suffering intermittently for the 10 years prior to that). The timing certainly seems suspicious. But what triggered the areata episode after 10 years? 2 months prior to my areata coming back I sustained a very bad laceration to one of the knuckles on my left hand. It was a cut which probably required medical attention but I stubbornly refused. It never became completely infected although it looked like it might be. I’ve always wondered if that injury was the catalyst for all my hair loss - like it just shocked my immune system so badly that it triggered both the areata and the pattern loss. I also moved into a new house 3 years prior to this all starting. Is there some other environmental issue (Ie mold exposure) which I’ve overlooked? I’m probably grasping at straws though. There are so many variables which are in play. All I can say for sure is that my recession came on very rapidly one month after starting treatment for areata, it accelerated after starting finasteride treatment, and neither finasteride nor dutasteride has stopped the recession from progressing quickly over less than 2 years.

I’ll never get back to baseline. I’ve accepted that long ago. All I want to do is slow down the progression. Since starting dutasteride the only change I’ve seen is that the back of my head has thinned out considerably and no longer grows to the length it once did. The hair shafts have now shrunk in diameter. It was the only area where i still had normal healthy hair. And now that seems to have been compromised as well. Yet I’m terrified to stop treatment because I know that this will simply invite DHT to come invading back in and take everything I’ve got left. Not sure what to do quite frankly.

From what I am gathering, your stress level seems higher than your brother and that means your cortisol levels are much higher and that can trigger inflammation. So you are a good example of how stress can influence your hair loss pattern especially if you are prone for male pattern baldness. You really have one of the most interesting cases on here since you have an identical twin brother on no treatments. Unless he is concealing that from you but I seriously doubt that as he would be happy to share that with you since you have the experience yourself. I would work on your stress levels/depression and anxiety. I still think the meds triggered a sensitivity to androgens more than if you never used them. Just my thoughts after all these years. Sometimes it's best not to screw with "mother nature". You could try Proxiphen and see how you do but it's expensive.

 

[MKP05]

My hair loss boils down to these potential possibilities.
1) aggressive sudden balding which is unresponsive to both finasteride and dutasteride.

2) treatment related (finasteride, dutasteride, corticosteroids, min, prednisone, clobetasol).

3) a combination of 1&2

4) autoimmune/stress/environmental related.

5) combination of all of the above.

I’m definitely not following the same genetic path as my brother or father. But I’m not sure if I’ll ever know what impact if anything the various medical treatments I’ve taken has contributed to my condition. I’m very curious to know what my derm will say next week. When I met with her in mid December I was 3 weeks into dutasteride but was fairly stable aside from the thinning at the sides and back which presented just one week after dropping finasteride and starting dutasteride. I would like to trial Zeljanz for a few months to see if thar resolves anything. If not then it’s less likely to be an autoimmune response.

 

[MKP05]

From what I am gathering, your stress level seems higher than your brother and that means your cortisol levels are much higher and that can trigger inflammation. So you are a good example of how stress can influence your hair loss pattern especially if you are prone for male pattern baldness. You really have one of the most interesting cases on here since you have an identical twin brother on no treatments. Unless he is concealing that from you but I seriously doubt that as he would be happy to share that with you since you have the experience yourself. I would work on your stress levels/depression and anxiety. I still think the meds triggered a sensitivity to androgens more than if you never used them. Just my thoughts after all these years. Sometimes it's best not to screw with "mother nature". You could try Proxiphen and see how you do but it's expensive.

He is not concealing treatment from me as he knows my entire story and would’ve shared his experience. I’m not really sure how to lower my cortisol levels other than trying to be less stressed. But the stress of losing my hair this quickly and in this fashion is too overwhelming for me to not stress about it. I bought some ashwsgandha but haven’t taken it because I read that it can increase T levels and could also activate immune response. I really do believe my situation is pretty unique considering the fact that I have an identical twin. That fact certainly contributes to the stressfulness of this. It’s bad enough to lose your hair quickly but even worse to have a constant reminder of how you used to look.

 

[DoctorHouse]

He is not concealing treatment from me as he knows my entire story and would’ve shared his experience. I’m not really sure how to lower my cortisol levels other than trying to be less stressed. But the stress of losing my hair this quickly and in this fashion is too overwhelming for me to not stress about it. I bought some ashwsgandha but haven’t taken it because I read that it can increase T levels and could also activate immune response. I really do believe my situation is pretty unique considering the fact that I have an identical twin. That fact certainly contributes to the stressfulness of this. It’s bad enough to lose your hair quickly but even worse to have a constant reminder of how you used to look.

I have been taking ashwhandha for years and I don't think it has caused any problems for me. I also take Rhodiola too. I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis which is autoimmune and I don't have any issues with those supplements.