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Cautious & safe way to start Propecia/Finasteride...........
I believe I made a comment on the correlation between DHT and body hair before.
The biggest indicator to high serum DHT was leg hair. Body hair in general has more to do with your genetic phenotype, and less so on hormones. So is male pattern baldness for the most part. The density distribution and bio-locations of 5-AR enzymes and ARs on hair follicles are the biggest predictors for body hair and male pattern baldness, to my knowledge.
But leg hair is so common among both genders, even females have leg hair, and must depilate her legs. Why would it be the biggest indicator to high DHT since it is so common, I heard hair on backs, and chest is a good indicator....
I wish I could take Finasteride. I took two tablets my balls ached and my dick went numb.
Your dick didn't go numb. Strong Nocebo. I'm pretty sure you were worried about side effects before every trying it.
But leg hair is so common among both genders, even females have leg hair, and must depilate her legs. Why would it be the biggest indicator to high DHT since it is so common, I heard hair on backs, and chest is a good indicator....
That was according to a regression analysis study on body hair wrt to DHT levels. Leg hair density was found to be the consistent measure of DHT, although it was still a weak correlation of r=0.19
Your dick didn't go numb. Strong Nocebo. I'm pretty sure you were worried about side effects before every trying it.
That was according to a regression analysis study on body hair wrt to DHT levels. Leg hair density was found to be the consistent measure of DHT, although it was still a weak correlation of r=0.19
Lol? Nocebo....yeah right. You have no idea what I experienced. The skins texture even change on it, it didnt even work with v**** and i'm 21. My skin also went Dry as on my face. I got depressed as crap. Luckily i'm back to normal but my sex drive never fully recovered.
xredstarx, I have no idea why leg hair would be a good correlation since it is probably more receptive to androgens; after all even females develop hair on leg area in puberty, and majority of male population, also develop leg hair after the onset of puberty.
I agree only in part that there is correlation between density of leg hair and T/DHT level. Males tend to have more dense and thick all body hair, including leg hair. But presence of leg hair doesn't mean anything. I suppose body hair in chest, abdomen, and back, is better indicator to 5-ard activity. Because males develop chest hair and etc.. latter in life, only clue would be there must be longer exposure of follicles in chest, and back area to androgens to turn in visible (terminal) stage.
But I want to ask you another questions. We all agree body hair as MPS depends on genetic phenotype and local androgen stimulus.
AR gene located on X chromosome (Xq 11-12) codes androgen receptor, so it is belief that this gene regulates how sensitive is scalp hair to androgens. My question is does this gene determine also how much receptive/sensitive is body hair. Bodyhair also contain androgen receptors, so this gene must also regulate how much sensitive is body hair, right? Apparently last statement disagrees with individual cases, since we have a plenty of examples of people with male pattern baldness but no body hair and opposite. 5-ard activity also plays huge role, but it seems there are many people with high scalp hair sensitivity to androgens, and low sensitivity of body hair. Do other genes determine body hair characteristics ?
I agree only in part that there is correlation between density of leg hair and T/DHT level. Males tend to have more dense and thick all body hair, including leg hair. But presence of leg hair doesn't mean anything. I suppose body hair in chest, abdomen, and back, is better indicator to 5-ard activity. Because males develop chest hair and etc.. latter in life, only clue would be there must be longer exposure of follicles in chest, and back area to androgens to turn in visible (terminal) stage.
But I want to ask you another questions. We all agree body hair as MPS depends on genetic phenotype and local androgen stimulus.
AR gene located on X chromosome (Xq 11-12) codes androgen receptor, so it is belief that this gene regulates how sensitive is scalp hair to androgens. My question is does this gene determine also how much receptive/sensitive is body hair. Bodyhair also contain androgen receptors, so this gene must also regulate how much sensitive is body hair, right? Apparently last statement disagrees with individual cases, since we have a plenty of examples of people with male pattern baldness but no body hair and opposite. 5-ard activity also plays huge role, but it seems there are many people with high scalp hair sensitivity to androgens, and low sensitivity of body hair. Do other genes determine body hair characteristics ?
xredstarx, I have no idea why leg hair would be a good correlation since it is probably more receptive to androgens; after all even females develop hair on leg area in puberty, and majority of male population, also develop leg hair after the onset of puberty.
I agree only in part that there is correlation between density of leg hair and T/DHT level. Males tend to have more dense and thick all body hair, including leg hair. But presence of leg hair doesn't mean anything. I suppose body hair in chest, abdomen, and back, is better indicator to 5-ard activity. Because males develop chest hair and etc.. latter in life, only clue would be there must be longer exposure of follicles in chest, and back area to androgens to turn in visible (terminal) stage.
But I want to ask you another questions. We all agree body hair as MPS depends on genetic phenotype and local androgen stimulus.
AR gene located on X chromosome (Xq 11-12) codes androgen receptor, so it is belief that this gene regulates how sensitive is scalp hair to androgens. My question is does this gene determine also how much receptive/sensitive is body hair. Bodyhair also contain androgen receptors, so this gene must also regulate how much sensitive is body hair, right? Apparently last statement disagrees with individual cases, since we have a plenty of examples of people with male pattern baldness but no body hair and opposite. 5-ard activity also plays huge role, but it seems there are many people with high scalp hair sensitivity to androgens, and low sensitivity of body hair. Do other genes determine body hair characteristics ?
The correlation was a study, not an opinion. People with more DHT had hairer legs, but there was no correlation with chest, arm, back or facial hair. Most likely due to genetic phenotype of such distorting the data, as I mentioned earlier.
Genes determine everything. male pattern baldness is a byproduct of three main properties.
1- AR sensitivity
2- 5-AR activity
3- AR density/distribution and 5-AR bio-locations.
If I have high AR sensitivity for my body, high 5-AR activity, dense AR and 5-AR distributions on my scalp follicles, but sparse bio-locations of 5-AR enzymes and AR densities on body hair follicles, or even non-existent body hair follicles, then I will have male pattern baldness with little to no body hair.
This is why genetic phenotype is what determines what you will turn out to look like in the end.
I've noticed you differentiate AR sensitivity from AR density/distribution.
Do you believe AR gene (Xq 11-12) determines both sensitivity and number, distribution of AR in a certain area ?
AR gene is inherited from mother since males inherit one Y chromosome from their father and one X chromosome from their mother. And pattern of hair loss must follow the pattern of AR distribution and 5-ard biolocations. Maybe other autosomal genes determine also AR distribution and location, this would explain why do men sometimes inherit pattern of baldness which resembles to fathers and his family.
Do you believe AR gene (Xq 11-12) determines both sensitivity and number, distribution of AR in a certain area ?
AR gene is inherited from mother since males inherit one Y chromosome from their father and one X chromosome from their mother. And pattern of hair loss must follow the pattern of AR distribution and 5-ard biolocations. Maybe other autosomal genes determine also AR distribution and location, this would explain why do men sometimes inherit pattern of baldness which resembles to fathers and his family.
I've noticed you differentiate AR sensitivity from AR density/distribution.
Do you believe AR gene (Xq 11-12) determines both sensitivity and number, distribution of AR in a certain area ?
AR gene is inherited from mother since males inherit one Y chromosome from their father and one X chromosome from their mother. And pattern of hair loss must follow the pattern of AR distribution and 5-ard biolocations. Maybe other autosomal genes determine also AR distribution and location, this would explain why do men sometimes inherit pattern of baldness which resembles to fathers and his family.
AR sensitivity is different from their respective densities and locations. I believe the former is determined by the X chromosome, and both the latter are equally shared between both parents, and can be dependent on environmental factors such as the endocrine system.
xredstarx,
And I've always thought men who are prone to balding are more likely to develop body hair since they probably have increased AR sensitivity in all hair follicles, which also involves more sensitive body hair follicles, since AR gene on X chromosome determine sensitivity of all androgen receptors, right ? So to the same androgen stimulus, body hair follicles of people with severe male pattern baldness should react much more powerful, then to the people who don't have male pattern baldness. You can notice I mentioned to the same stimulus, since growth/loss of both body hair and scalp hair depend also on local 5-ard and androgen levels which is another crucial factor.
The last sentence says human gene which encodes AR is only found on X chromosome so far, but that doesn't exclude the possibility other genes on Y or other chromosomes can also encode or cause some kind of mutation of andr. receptor, right ?
Can you can inherit androgen receptor density and distribution from your father ? Which would mean regardless if you've inherited good genes from your mother and her side of family -- low AR sensitivity, if you inherit very high AR density in scalp area (from your father) - that also mean you will start balding. (low AR sensitivity x very high AR density = susceptible to balding )
Last hypothesis goes in favor with observation that men with balding fathers are even 2.5 more likely to become bald. So paternal side is even more significant according to analysis.
Can you describe what is exactly the function of AR gene, what does it regulate, sensitivity of each andr. receptor (how much is strong the force of attraction between AR (In brief AR is a protein floating around the nucleus in a cell) and T/DHT respectively) ?
Does AR gene determine the number of AR in a cell ?
And I've always thought men who are prone to balding are more likely to develop body hair since they probably have increased AR sensitivity in all hair follicles, which also involves more sensitive body hair follicles, since AR gene on X chromosome determine sensitivity of all androgen receptors, right ? So to the same androgen stimulus, body hair follicles of people with severe male pattern baldness should react much more powerful, then to the people who don't have male pattern baldness. You can notice I mentioned to the same stimulus, since growth/loss of both body hair and scalp hair depend also on local 5-ard and androgen levels which is another crucial factor.
Summary from http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=AR ž
Upon binding the hormone ligand, the receptor dissociates from
accessory proteins, translocates into the nucleus, dimerizes, and then stimulates transcription of androgen
responsive genes.
Androgen receptors (ARs) (also known as dihydrotestosterone receptors) are nuclear hormone receptors of the
NR3C class, which also includes mineralocorticoid, progesterone and glucocorticoid receptors. They are
expressed in bone marrow, mammary gland, prostate, testicular and muscle tissues where they exist as dimers
coupled to Hsp90 and HMGB proteins, which are shed upon ligand binding. Activated androgen receptors bind to
nuclear response elements of the genome, with an inverted palindromic 15 nucleotide sequence, to regulate
gene transcription. Androgen receptors also effect gene expression through interaction with transcription
factors including AP-1, NF-kappaB and STAT. Target genes of androgen receptors include insulin-like growth
factor 1 (IGF-1) and genes involved in the development of primary and secondary male sexual characteristics,
maintenance of sexual function and possibly have a causative role in aggressive behavior. Furthermore,
androgen receptors have recently been shown to have actions that are independent of DNA interactions.
Congential mutations in androgen receptors are associated with androgen insensitivity syndromes, virility
and spinal and bulbar muscular atrophy. Perturbations in androgen receptor expression is also a common
feature of prostate cancer. The human gene encoding the androgen receptor has been localized to Xq11-12.
The last sentence says human gene which encodes AR is only found on X chromosome so far, but that doesn't exclude the possibility other genes on Y or other chromosomes can also encode or cause some kind of mutation of andr. receptor, right ?
Can you can inherit androgen receptor density and distribution from your father ? Which would mean regardless if you've inherited good genes from your mother and her side of family -- low AR sensitivity, if you inherit very high AR density in scalp area (from your father) - that also mean you will start balding. (low AR sensitivity x very high AR density = susceptible to balding )
Last hypothesis goes in favor with observation that men with balding fathers are even 2.5 more likely to become bald. So paternal side is even more significant according to analysis.
Can you describe what is exactly the function of AR gene, what does it regulate, sensitivity of each andr. receptor (how much is strong the force of attraction between AR (In brief AR is a protein floating around the nucleus in a cell) and T/DHT respectively) ?
Does AR gene determine the number of AR in a cell ?
Lol? Nocebo....yeah right. You have no idea what I experienced. The skins texture even change on it, it didnt even work with v**** and i'm 21. My skin also went Dry as on my face. I got depressed as crap. Luckily i'm back to normal but my sex drive never fully recovered.
Dude... There's NO way in hell taking finasteride twice would cause all that. If you took it for even a week I'd say OK, you're not a good candidate for finasteride, but two days? Come on, man... And how in the hell could finasteride cause changes in your skin? I don't even know if that's possible. Minoxidil on the other hand can totally f*ck up your face/skin.