Can milk based products cause hair loss?

[Bryan]

Your right Brian...I give up! You are completely right...The only way to beat M.P.B. is to submit to propecia or rogain...Which one of those corporations do you work for

I don't work for any corporation.

And only someone like you would spend so much time and effort on numerous forums slashing other peoples theories and hypotheses and not offer any other advice other than to take drugs

I slash other people's theories when they are clearly and demonstrably WRONG. And it pisses me off royally when I tell somebody REPEATEDLY that they are wrong, and they keep repeating the same wrong things over and over and over and over.

...Hell, you don't even mention your regimen...

I've talked about my regimen over the years until I'm blue in the face.

Are you even balding?

Yes.

Why else would you spend all this time and effort on numerous forums yet not give advice or help?

I've given all kinds of advice, help, and opinions about male pattern baldness over the last 14 years, on various hairloss sites. If you haven't seen any of it, you must be a real newbie.

I may be wrong (I don't think so...but hey, what can I do that I haven’t already)

One thing you can do is stop telling people that DHT rises in response to estrogen. That claim is pure bullshit. It's absolutely WRONG.

Are you trying to help people with hair loss or are you slashing at anyone who comes close "the truth" regarding M.P.B.?

I slash at anyone who keeps making FALSE claims. I told you in plain English (multiple times, in fact) what the truth is about estrogen and DHT, and it hasn't phased you at all, until just tonight.

So why don't you bite the bullet and give us your idea on how M.P.B. works or tells us which company you work for? If you don't give us your hypothesis, chances are you are working for Merck or Upjohn. If you claim you don't work for either Merck or Upjohn then let's hear your hypothesis...

I've been discussing how male pattern baldness works for years on these hairloss sites, and I don't feel like going over it all again for you, just because you're relatively new here. I don't work for any company.

 

[Bryan]

Oh, I don't know, seaback. It took me several attempts with this guy misterE, but I finally got through to him! How does that old saying go..."First you have to crack a mule over the head with a two-by-four, just to get his attention."

 

[OverMachoGrande]

I still believe that estrogen increases the effects or binding of D.H.T.

Brian...What is your regimen?

 

[Bryan]

I still believe that estrogen increases the effects or binding of D.H.T.

And why do you believe that? Can you cite any scientific material (medical studies or textbooks) to support that claim?

Brian...What is your regimen?

I use things only very irregularly nowadays, but I'm a fan of Dr. Proctor's products like Prox-N, Proxiphen, and NANO shampoo. When I was really into this stuff in the past, I also experimented with my own topical concoctions of spironolactone, green tea extract, 11a-hydroxyprogesterone, phenytoin, Retin-A, and probably other things that I'm forgetting at the moment.

 

[Jokerman]

Someone tell this guy he's been drinking too much cow milk.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

I still believe that estrogen increases the effects or binding of D.H.T.

And why do you believe that? Can you cite any scientific material (medical studies or textbooks) to support that claim?

Brian...What is your regimen?

I use things only very irregularly nowadays, but I'm a fan of Dr. Proctor's products like Prox-N, Proxiphen, and NANO shampoo. When I was really into this stuff in the past, I also experimented with my own topical concoctions of spironolactone, green tea extract, 11a-hydroxyprogesterone, phenytoin, Retin-A, and probably other things that I'm forgetting at the moment.

Because all the balding men I know, including myself, thou not all...Seem to me to be more sensitive and lack self confidence, especially when it comes to women, this I believe is caused by estrogen dominance; which is when estrogen is higher than testosterone, but not D.H.T. Testosterone is what makes men agressive instead of sensitive and confident instead of not confident. One theory, advanced by Muscarella and Cunningham, suggests baldness evolved in males through sexual selection as an enhanced signal of aging and social maturity, whereby aggression and risk-taking decrease and nurturing behaviours increase. This may have conveyed a male with enhanced social status but reduced physical threat, which could enhance ability to secure reproductive partners and raise offspring to adulthood.

 

[s.a.f]

Because all the balding men I know, including myself, thou not all...Seem to me to be more sensitive and lack self confidence, especially when it comes to women, this I believe is caused by estrogen dominance; which is when estrogen is higher than testosterone, but not D.H.T. Testosterone is what makes men agressive instead of sensitive and confident instead of not confident. One theory, advanced by Muscarella and Cunningham, suggests baldness evolved in males through sexual selection as an enhanced signal of aging and social maturity, whereby aggression and risk-taking decrease and nurturing behaviours increase. This may have conveyed a male with enhanced social status but reduced physical threat, which could enhance ability to secure reproductive partners and raise offspring to adulthood.

Thanks I needed a good laugh! :mrgreen:

 

[Bryan]

Because all the balding men I know, including myself, thou not all...Seem to me to be more sensitive and lack self confidence, especially when it comes to women, this I believe is caused by estrogen dominance; which is when estrogen is higher than testosterone, but not D.H.T. Testosterone is what makes men agressive instead of sensitive and confident instead of not confident.

All of us can think of obvious counter-examples to that, like balding athletes who are anything but sensitive and lacking self-confidence. Another perfect example would be G. Gordon Liddy, who is COMPLETELY bald. Would you say that Liddy is the sensitive, caring, nurturing type of guy?

One theory, advanced by Muscarella and Cunningham, suggests baldness evolved in males through sexual selection as an enhanced signal of aging and social maturity, whereby aggression and risk-taking decrease and nurturing behaviours increase. This may have conveyed a male with enhanced social status but reduced physical threat, which could enhance ability to secure reproductive partners and raise offspring to adulthood.

That idea has been discussed quite a bit on hairloss forums, but I don't really care much for it. The theory that I like the most is the one that says that balding evolved in certain primates as a means to provide extra cooling for the developing brain. That makes at least as much sense to me as any of the other theories.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

I guess then that the only reason we make D.H.T. is for hair loss!

 

[hairrific]

I still believe that estrogen increases the effects or binding of D.H.T.

Brian...What is your regimen?

MisterE, estrogen sure don't hurt trans-gender males scalp hair.

Thanks for the entertainment, it is so funny to see Bryan pounce on you every time you post something unscientific. The funny part is when you swallow your pride try to pounce back, LOL oh thanks guys, LOL!

MisterE you remind me of a girlfriend I had in college, she was so into natural this natural that, she had all the old books, "back to eden" who was that natural health food nut from Switzerland, GayLord Perry or something. She said the crazies things but really they were all just theories and folk lore, not all of it bad of coarse but sometimes she really was extreme. Oh yea, she was a total vegetarian of coarse too.

Bryans book is the one I would like to buy if I could find it.

 

[Bryan]

Bryans book is the one I would like to buy if I could find it.

You mean Dr. Roger William's book Nutrition Against Disease? It's a very well-known book. You can likely find a copy of it in a used book-store.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

How can milk that has been treated with rBGH be beneficial to the hair or health?

 

[OverMachoGrande]

Hairrific, your not a trans-gender are you? I'm no vegetarian, but I tend to stay away from gentically modified milk. Research rBGH, then tell me if you trust Monsanto; they don't care about health, they care about profits. rBGH was created to produce more and more milk ( to create more profits), despite health concerns.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

Re: Endogenous Sex Hormones and Prostate Cancer: A Collaborative Analysis of 18 Prospective Studies
F. William Danby
Affiliation of author: Adjunct Assistant Professor of Medicine (Dermatology), Dartmouth Medical School, Hanover, NH

Correspondence to: F. William Danby, MD, FRCPC, 721 Chestnut Street, Manchester, Hanover, NH 03104-3002 (e-mail: fwdljm@tds.net).

Steroid hormone concentrations do not appear to be associated with the risk of prostate cancer (1). A parallel disconnect between the laboratory and the disorder itself exists for acne, and a further parallel may extend to etiology. The link between dairy foods and acne, which was made originally by Bulkley in 1885 in 1500 patients, was confirmed by Fisher (2) in his 1965 study of 1000 patients. Recent work (3,4) links acne with diet in two ways—through its association with skim milk and dairy products (presumably by supplying exogenous androgen precursors) and through high glycemic load diets (presumably by inducing supra-physiological levels of insulin-like growth factor 1 and thus raising testosterone availability). Darling et al. (5) identified testosterone, progesterone, and two 5-reduced dihydrotestosterone precursors (5-androstanedione and 5-pregnanedione) in cow milk. Associations between prostate cancer and dairy have been reported (6), but what thread links all four—that is, prostate cancer, acne, dairy, and exogenous precursors and stimulators of androgen?

The enzymes that convert dairy precursors to dihydrotestosterone are located in both the pilosebaceous unit and prostate gland. Dihydrotestosterone appears to be the principal androgen responsible for both prostate and pilosebaceous growth. Some experts, however, consider that an age-related decline in the production of testosterone is responsible for loss of prostate homeostasis, which allows dihydrotestosterone to act as a carcinogen. I suggest that the chronic stimulation by dihydrotestosterone further destabilizes prostate homeostasis and thus increases the risk of prostate cancer.

Dietary androgens may have two roles. The first is as pathogens. The human prostate evolved in the absence of exogenous dairy androgens, and the negative feedback loop that controls endogenous glucocorticoids has no parallel inhibitory feedback loop for ingested 5-reduced hormones and precursors (Figure 1). Their unopposed impact on pilosebaceous and prostate glands may explain the epidemiological associations of dairy with acne, prostate cancer, and even breast cancer. Androgens’ second role may be to effect the persistence or recurrence of prostate cancer. The hypothesis of androgen-driven prostate cancer has led to use of specific strategies and medications to lower androgen levels, including orchi(d)ectomy and treatment with finasteride and dutasteride. However, metastatic prostate tumor cells contain enzymes that mediate intracrine production of dihydrotestosterone from precursors derived from dairy products; this dihydrotestosterone may support the survival of the tumor. Patients with metastatic prostate cancer often consume dairy products as an increasing percentage of the diet, and this practice may thus be more detrimental than beneficial.

REFERENCES


1. Roddam AW, Allen NE, Appleby P, Key TJ. Endogenous sex hormones and prostate cancer: a collaborative analysis of 18 prospective studies. J Natl Cancer Inst (2008) 100(3):170–183.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

2. Fisher JK. Acne Vulgaris; A Study of One Thousand Cases (1966) Available from: http://www.acnemilk.com/fisher_s_original_paper.

3. Adebamowo CA, Spiegelman D, Danby FW, Frazier AL, Willett WC, Holmes MD. High school dietary dairy intake and teenage acne. J Am Acad Dermatol (2005) 52(2):207–214.[CrossRef][Web of Science][Medline]

4. Smith RN, Mann NJ, Braue A, Makelainen H, Varigos GA. The effect of a high-protein, low glycemic-load diet versus a conventional, high glycemic-load diet on biochemical parameters associated with acne vulgaris: a randomized, investigator-masked, controlled trial. J Am Acad Dermatol (2007) 57(2):247–256.[CrossRef][Web of Science][Medline]

5. Darling JA, Laing AH, Harkness RA. A survey of the steroids in cows’ milk. J Endocrinol (1974) 62(2):291–297.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

6. Kurahashi N, Inoue M, Iwasaki M, Sasazuki S, Tsugane AS. Dairy product, saturated fatty acid, and calcium intake and prostate cancer in a prospective cohort of Japanese men. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev (2008) 17(4):930–937.[Abstract/Free Full Text]

7. Carpenter WR, Robinson WR, Godley PA. Getting over testosterone: postulating a fresh start for etiologic studies of prostate cancer. J Natl Cancer Inst (2008) 100(3):158–159.[Free Full Text]

 

[Jack82]

Someone tell this guy he's been drinking too much cow milk.

rofl unk:

MisterE any ideas where i can buy human milk? :gay: :hump: :mrgreen: