Baldness becoming more common?

[s.a.f]

Good point ThickandThin...

I raised a similar question on the IH site about if men who are slick bald would have been any different had they eaten a "perfect" diet since they were young. My contention was of course not, that they are bald like that due to genetics.

The moderater of the site adamately stated that hair loss isn't related to genetics. So, when you have someone, who really believes that someone like Ed Asner, or as you stated Larry David or Jason Alexander, would not be bald today if they had just taken natural anti inflammatories or taken high amounts of iodine to "correct their thyroid" deficiences. Well you really can't have a discussion with someone like that because they are really out in the ozone somewhere.

Exactly who'd have guessed that me my father and both my grandfathers and uncles all have a bad diet. :whistle:

 

[Bryan]

Baldness is definitely on the increase in the United States, and is more characteristic of the American tan of the European, according to recent observations by the medical profession. In the large cities of the United States is to be found a greater percentage of prematurely bald heads than in any other region on earth.

CHESTER T. STONE M.D. Clinical Assistant Surgeon, Urological Division, Bellevue Hospital, New York city; Urologist, Bergen County Hospital, Oradell, N.J.; Consultant Urologist, Rome State School, Rome N.Y

http://books.google.es/books?id=bioDAAA ... MD&f=false

Published in the 20' last century

LOL! You're taking the word of a magazine article written in 1922, Armando?

 

[Jacob]

Good point ThickandThin...

I raised a similar question on the IH site about if men who are slick bald would have been any different had they eaten a "perfect" diet since they were young. My contention was of course not, that they are bald like that due to genetics.

The moderater of the site adamately stated that hair loss isn't related to genetics. So, when you have someone, who really believes that someone like Ed Asner, or as you stated Larry David or Jason Alexander, would not be bald today if they had just taken natural anti inflammatories or taken high amounts of iodine to "correct their thyroid" deficiences. Well you really can't have a discussion with someone like that because they are really out in the ozone somewhere.

And unfortunatley that site is inhabited by a lot of similar zombies who think they can actually cure male pattern baldness by taking a couple of dozen supplements per day. Unfortunately what I can see happening is some poor soul going to that site looking for help with their problem and taking all the things that the board owner recommends and then ends up with kidney or liver damage. After that happens, he's probably going to end up getting sued and will lose his shirt. He should be careful giving out all of that supplement advice, many of which no one really knows how each vitamin or herb will react with each other.

You have to keep in mind..also..that there is another agenda behind it all. Selling the supplements..which was predicted. As well as other forms of revenue. More power to him/them..but there's more evidence of combos sold at Iherb working for hair loss than whatever the current regimen is over there now. The "moderator" there doesn't even list things such as Source Natural's Renewal Antioxidants in his list..which he takes. That's a pretty powerful combo..if I do say so myself(I used to take it when it first came out).

Besides those at Iherb..there's also this: http://www.naturalwellbeing.com/products/hair-growth Of course..any of these we could get 50 ppl to try and we'd be lucky to get 5 positives out of 'em.

And "He should be careful giving out all that supplement advice"..what about MEDICAL advice? :whistle:

 

[Boondock]

Hoppi:

I think your problem is that you're too nice. You seem like a friendly, open individual, and I think this is your downfall when it comes to your theories. You simply believe things too easily.

I've seen plenty of people claiming that stopping masturbating ended their hair loss, or changing their diet did it. I have seen precisely zero photos to support this, however. If you look around on this site you'll see hundreds of propecia success stories, well documented with photos. Why are there none for IH?

I think IH is populated by well-intentioned brainboxes with zero common sense. They can read a gazillion papers and yet still fail to put the pieces together correctly. They may even think they're improving their hair, and sincerely believe it - but without seeing photographs it's hard to take it seriously.

The site owner is only person who uploaded photos as far as I can tell, and his loss appears reasonably stable. His hair loss was never agressive or extensive, however, and the stability he's achieved is hardly miraculous. It can happen. And frankly, I don't trust the guy. He knows a lot but then he comes out with absolute clangers - like "all pharmaceuticals are bad for you." After reading around there for a while I realized the whole community was a large collective delusion.

 

[armandein]

Baldness is definitely on the increase in the United States, and is more characteristic of the American tan of the European, according to recent observations by the medical profession. In the large cities of the United States is to be found a greater percentage of prematurely bald heads than in any other region on earth.

CHESTER T. STONE M.D. Clinical Assistant Surgeon, Urological Division, Bellevue Hospital, New York city; Urologist, Bergen County Hospital, Oradell, N.J.; Consultant Urologist, Rome State School, Rome N.Y

http://books.google.es/books?id=bioDAAA ... MD&f=false

Published in the 20' last century

LOL! You're taking the word of a magazine article written in 1922, Armando?

Dear Bryan;

Sometimes I think that things don´t change very much .
Another example
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 946395D6CF
" Some cases of hair loss are incurable"

OTOH, it is possible also learn a few.

Armando

 

[Hoppi]

Hoppi:

I think your problem is that you're too nice. You seem like a friendly, open individual, and I think this is your downfall when it comes to your theories. You simply believe things too easily.

I've seen plenty of people claiming that stopping masturbating ended their hair loss, or changing their diet did it. I have seen precisely zero photos to support this, however. If you look around on this site you'll see hundreds of propecia success stories, well documented with photos. Why are there none for IH?

I think IH is populated by well-intentioned brainboxes with zero common sense. They can read a gazillion papers and yet still fail to put the pieces together correctly. They may even think they're improving their hair, and sincerely believe it - but without seeing photographs it's hard to take it seriously.

The site owner is only person who uploaded photos as far as I can tell, and his loss appears reasonably stable. His hair loss was never agressive or extensive, however, and the stability he's achieved is hardly miraculous. It can happen. And frankly, I don't trust the guy. He knows a lot but then he comes out with absolute clangers - like "all pharmaceuticals are bad for you." After reading around there for a while I realized the whole community was a large collective delusion.

hehe well I mean everyone is entitled to their own view

I think the fact that anti-inflammatory approaches seem to work pretty well (topically and systemically) is a good start to backing up a lot of the ideas put forward by IH. The IH6 often stabilizes people's hair loss it seems, and when it doesn't it usually turns out they've got about 15 root canals xD

Joke is CS also diagnosed my friend's hypothyroid before her doctor did, and pointed me in the right direction for mine I believe as well. He offered me top-notch advice for anxiety/stress, seems spot on about testosterone, spot on about fungal and bacterial activity, and spot on about the stages leading for DHT to loss of hair follicle. I do a LOT of research and a lot of learning, and yes I am quick to take things on board but then I question them and analyze again and again and again until I am SURE. I don't just believe anything I hear.

But the theories about masturbation/sex and alcohol hold a lot of water to me, and seem to make biological sense.

What doesn't make sense though are some theories I hear on here, such as never addressing the idea of increased DHT, never even considering blood tests, things that would upset body balance and cause things to start going wrong etc.

Plus you have to remember many things I don't believe BECAUSE I read them on IH, I believed them anyway due to general research, and then IH confirmed them for me to an even further degree, you know?

The only main thing I don't fully understand is precisely HOW systemic inflammation affects local inflammation of a follicle and how the two interact.

Also of course without looking into this stuff, things like stress sheds are very difficult to explain, when in fact the reason is raised cortisol lowering testosterone and more importantly systemic neurogenic inflammation (this is according to CS, but I mean, it's the best explanation I've heard yet!).

It does get rather tedious stating theories and thoughts based on a position of good scientific knowledge and principal, and getting it thrown back in your face every time

I could state a billion studies saying how resveratrol and ashwagandha lift testosterone levels (as a random example), and a bunch of people would still claim it's impossible to lift your T levels xD

I just.. I dunno sometimes I just give up on trying to convince people and just follow my own research! hehe

 

[Jacob]

Hoppi..I've read the threads...on your "friend" as well. Oh nevermind...

BTW..do check out the Iherb combos..and the product I linked to above. Compare those testimonials to- those threads Hoppi...those threads....

:whistle:

 

[Boondock]

I'm sure IH offers good advice from time to time, but the board also seems awash with quackery. People come along to ask if they have covered all the bases by taking finasteride and minoxidil and get told that pharmaceuticals are evil and that they need to check themselves for candida. Candida is sort of a catch-all diagnosis made by everyone except those who have actual medical qualifications.

The main reason people don't believe in any of this stuff is because there is zero photographic evidence of it working. There may be an obscure scientific paper claiming that upping antioxidant activity decreases hair loss rate, but unless people have taken photos of their success, why should we believe them? You can prove almost anything with scientific references if you're willing to search hard enough.

There are some weird theories kicking around on here too, but you can't deny the success of most members' approaches. Finasteride and minoxidil, with a few other things on the side. This approach has hundreds upon hundreds of documented successes with photos on this board and others, as well as the backing of a number of people with actual qualifications in this field.

Why does the IH approach have nothing but testimonials?

P.S. My point is essentially that testimonials are worthless. Hell, Tom Hagerty has hundreds of testimonials for his scalp exercise pamphlet, but nobody (including him) has produced any photos of its success.

 

[Hoppi]

I have seen a few photos on there of members with good hair, to be honest I use it mainly for learning and information about general wellbeing. I also as I say suspected my thyroid, diet, stress levels and things of being hair loss triggers before I even went on there, so it allows me to pursue those avenues further.

Candida isn't really the core of most approaches on there, although to be fair it makes some sense, the main focus tends to be inflammation in general, followed by thyroid disorders followed by insulin levels. All 3 make pretty good sense to me!

I mean of COURSE things like finasteride work, they lower the hormone that triggers everything. And of course minoxidil works, it's an incredibly potent hair stimulator. Ketoconazole.. hmm, man it's a tough one! I think it's a combination of it's antiandrogen, anti-inflammatory and antibacterial/antifungal properties.

Thing is, not everyone wants to hit their DHT levels hard with finasteride or use minoxidil, certainly not unless they really, really have to. I am one of those people, I would rather try to understand my body a bit better and form a holistic solution!

I mean when guys come on here with hair loss people don't even CONSIDER things like elevated DHT levels and T levels, which is the simplest imbalance that can cause hair loss. Why?

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

I'm sure IH offers good advice from time to time, but the board also seems awash with quackery. People come along to ask if they have covered all the bases by taking finasteride and minoxidil and get told that pharmaceuticals are evil and that they need to check themselves for candida. Candida is sort of a catch-all diagnosis made by everyone except those who have actual medical qualifications.

The main reason people don't believe in any of this stuff is because there is zero photographic evidence of it working. There may be an obscure scientific paper claiming that upping antioxidant activity decreases hair loss rate, but unless people have taken photos of their success, why should we believe them? You can prove almost anything with scientific references if you're willing to search hard enough.

There are some weird theories kicking around on here too, but you can't deny the success of most members' approaches. Finasteride and minoxidil, with a few other things on the side. This approach has hundreds upon hundreds of documented successes with photos on this board and others, as well as the backing of a number of people with actual qualifications in this field.

Why does the IH approach have nothing but testimonials?

P.S. My point is essentially that testimonials are worthless. Hell, Tom Hagerty has hundreds of testimonials for his scalp exercise pamphlet, but nobody (including him) has produced any photos of its success.

In a world of severe overmedication, Candidiasis is NOT some quack suggestion to describe someone's symptoms, especially when antibiotics are included in that medicate first, investigate later approach. Additionally it's actually something that's much, much easier to accurately test for than male pattern baldness as well as being much easier and more important to treat. In such a case doping up on finasteride and minoxidil would reduce some hair loss but would do nothing for the system damage being caused by the yeast overgrowth.

When was the last time you heard a doctor (you know, the supposedly competent people) prescribe a regimen of pro/prebiotics following administering antibiotics?

 

[Jacob]

When was the last time you heard a doctor (you know, the supposedly competent people) prescribe a regimen of pro/prebiotics following administering antibiotics?

Actually...a lady friend of ours who is doctor-happy...has been told quite often to take probiotics.

Now veterinarians around here....no........

To Hoppi..I'd really like a response regarding those combos that DO have good testimonials- compare that to..those threads... I posted the one above..here are the ones at Iherb:


http://www.iherb.com/Ridge-Crest-Herbals-Hair-ReVive-120-Veggie-Caps/9806?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Maxi-Hair-90-Tablets/1714?at=1

http://www.iherb.com/Natrol-DHT-Blocker-Shen-Min-Hair-Regrowth-Formula-60-Tablets/10827?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Naturally-Vita...Support-For-Hair-Nails-250-Softgels/5426?at=1

http://www.iherb.com/Twinlab-Hair-Factors-100-Tablets/2345?at=1

 

[Hoppi]

I'm sure IH offers good advice from time to time, but the board also seems awash with quackery. People come along to ask if they have covered all the bases by taking finasteride and minoxidil and get told that pharmaceuticals are evil and that they need to check themselves for candida. Candida is sort of a catch-all diagnosis made by everyone except those who have actual medical qualifications.

The main reason people don't believe in any of this stuff is because there is zero photographic evidence of it working. There may be an obscure scientific paper claiming that upping antioxidant activity decreases hair loss rate, but unless people have taken photos of their success, why should we believe them? You can prove almost anything with scientific references if you're willing to search hard enough.

There are some weird theories kicking around on here too, but you can't deny the success of most members' approaches. Finasteride and minoxidil, with a few other things on the side. This approach has hundreds upon hundreds of documented successes with photos on this board and others, as well as the backing of a number of people with actual qualifications in this field.

Why does the IH approach have nothing but testimonials?

P.S. My point is essentially that testimonials are worthless. Hell, Tom Hagerty has hundreds of testimonials for his scalp exercise pamphlet, but nobody (including him) has produced any photos of its success.

In a world of severe overmedication, Candidiasis is NOT some quack suggestion to describe someone's symptoms, especially when antibiotics are included in that medicate first, investigate later approach. Additionally it's actually something that's much, much easier to accurately test for than male pattern baldness as well as being much easier and more important to treat. In such a case doping up on finasteride and minoxidil would reduce some hair loss but would do nothing for the system damage being caused by the yeast overgrowth.

When was the last time you heard a doctor (you know, the supposedly competent people) prescribe a regimen of pro/prebiotics following administering antibiotics?

That's interesting about the candida thing anyway like, I know very little about it. Will my improved diet and things like aloe vera help to cleanse my body against stuff like this? I think the chances of me having a problem like this are fairly minimal, but as recently I have been focusing my attention on general detoxing (hence the aloe vera, and I've been looking at other things like ecklonia cava, green tea and a few topicals) it makes sense to consider it.

What ARE the most effective systemic antibacterials/antifungals? Is aloe vera effective?

(sorry, I'm a fast learner and I'm not dumb, but the human body is a very complex thing )

 

[Jacob]

Nothing? :dunno:

 

[Jocko59]

And don't forget that ALL cancers are caused by thyroid problems!!! LOL. Or that everyone should pull out their silver fillings and then replace them with...... oh wait, replace them with what? LOL.

There are a few good ideas on IH, but as someone else posted, tons of questionable stuff and outright BS quackery. I really hope that no one takes all of the supplements that are recommended there. As I stated earlier some poor soul is going to screw up their liver or kidneys and then lawsuits will be filed and well that might very well be the end of that site.

 

[Boondock]

Let's put it this way. I know stacks of people who've gone through medical school, and a few who are qualified doctors. Of those that I've spoken to on these matters, most know of candida. Most also know that it's not the huge issue that alternative health quacks make it out to be.

Yes, doctors are influenced by the pharmaceutical industry. But no, they're not slaves with no opinion of their own. They've explored the literature on candida and discovered that it's not a major cause of symptoms for a large number of people. It certainly doesn't cause hair loss.

A quick search around the internet will demonstrate that the candida story is one of the most quacked-up stories of modern times. Most sites promoting it are run by morons with zero medical knowledge, or lots of knowlede of studies but no clinical experience. It's just complete balls.

 

[Hoppi]

Hehe well, nonsense or not it seems aloe vera can control candida! Man I love that stuff I'll be using it quite heavily topically (as it seems to be in pretty much EVERYTHING I want to buy lol), and internally (as I've been drinking the juice). I am going to be properly detoxed lol

And yeah I dunno, I'm mainly interested in the stuff involving the thyroid and insulin and stuff And cortisol.

And CS was like the ONLY guy saying "stop lowering your testosterone", and lo-and-behold, he was probably right (again) rofl

 

[Boondock]

To be fair, I think CS's advice is great for general health - and can help a lot of people. And yes, insulin and thyroid are important issues to think about, and are overlooked by mainstream health until they get catastrophically serious. (Although candida is nonesense, imo).

For hair loss, though, I think his methods are pretty weak. Bottom line: if you can tolerate finasteride, it's the best treatment. If you can't, antiandrogen topicals are your best bet for slowing loss. And if they fail, most people who are basically healthy won't gain success from these herbal and dietary methods. Some will if they have underlying issues (like Brain Expels hair with celiac). But most will only dent the loss slightly.

Until I see substantial pics of people sustaining hair from herbal methods, I just can't take it seriously - and neither do the docs in the field who actually have qualifications and experience.

 

[Jacob]

And CS was like the ONLY guy saying "stop lowering your testosterone", and lo-and-behold, he was probably right (again) rofl

You've been around how long..??

I'd really like a response regarding those combos that DO have good testimonials- compare that to..those threads... I posted the one above..here are the ones at Iherb:


http://www.iherb.com/Ridge-Crest-Herbals-Hair-ReVive-120-Veggie-Caps/9806?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Maxi-Hair-90-Tablets/1714?at=1

http://www.iherb.com/Natrol-DHT-Blocker-Shen-Min-Hair-Regrowth-Formula-60-Tablets/10827?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Naturally-Vita...Support-For-Hair-Nails-250-Softgels/5426?at=1

http://www.iherb.com/Twinlab-Hair-Factors-100-Tablets/2345?at=1

 

[Brains Expel Hair]

Aside from the obvious "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" thing, a localized overgrowth of fungi is not uncommon at all in our species such as: seborrheic dermatitis, vaginal yeast infections. In such cases inflammation and itching DO occur (ask a female sometime) and too much inflammation can cause the death of any cell, hair or not. The lesser of the "big 3" coincidentally happens to pull double duty as a fungicide and I think some people posting in the new treatments section are seeing results using miconazole (athelete's foot cream). I personally think it's too early to write the book on subclinical systemic candida overgrowth, there's not enough evidence to prove or disprove the claims but it is known that we all have that fungus on/in our bodies from time of birth and in cases of severe overgrowth it can cause health problems. So what is the safe level then? The main beneficial thing for someone suspecting a yeast overgrowth currently is that it's relatively easy to test and dismiss with the help of a medical professional, although an "internet diagnosis" of candidiasis has got to be one of the most ridiculously unreliable things out there.

Blanket treatment of herbal remedies are just as useful/useless as blanket treatment with pharmaceuticals. In the end, the only thing that matters is whether you're trying to treat the symptoms or the cause. The bald form of the androgen receptor is only found in 45% of people with "male pattern baldness". For these people there's little doubt that a product like finasteride is the best treatment for attacking the actual cause of their hair loss and not just a symptom, but where does this leave those of us who have inherited hair loss from the paternal line?

Edit: Hoppi: don't just blindly take systemic fungicides/bactericides, whether you like it or not your body always has been and always will be a super large settlement for multitudes of microscopic organisms. Along with your immune system, they normally will compete with each other and keep each other in check. Randomly killing off one group or the other can cause you to actually create imbalances or can cause you to force the evolution of hardier forms of either.

 

[Hoppi]

I'm taking good ones though! I mean my top systemic fungicides are aloe vera and garlic!

I dunno like, I am just trying to give my body a "cleanse", as it seems to me that many of these things are tied to hair loss.

Also the main reason I threw garlic in there was to thwart the mycotoxins I am probably filling myself with after nights of excessive drinking lol ^_^


@Boondock We are pretty mad on there though aren't we? xD It's like a whole other world!