Att Bryan: Proxiphen and something else.

[Jacobo]

Hi Bryan. I have ordered Proxiphen cream, to use from 1st Jan. I use topical spironolactone 2xday and tricomin aprox. 1ml day. I need your advice about:

- Tricomin, do you think that different copper peptides could help in different ways than the ones in Proxiphen, or basically the top one (proxiphen) will make the weaker (tricomin) pointless?

- spironolactone: I've read your thoughts about proxiphen weaknesses: no 5ar inhibitor (2 or 3 dutas a week will sort that out, BTW, 2 or 3???) and weak AR blocker. I don't trust fluridil, neither want to import RU powder, it looks like a mission for me.

I will just carry on with "mediocre" spironolactone. I could try proxiphen 1xday and spironolactone 2xday (8 hrs between aplications), or just one spironolactone application 12 hrs after proxiphen? If you think that it will make a difference, I don't bother the extra work. Michael Barry posted that it works 4 hours strongish and 4 hours mediocre-ish, but then using cream should help slowing absortion???

Quick quiz: I have in my desk:
5% spironolactone cream(dr Lee), 10% Green tea ext. cream, 0.1% retin-a cream.
I mix 60% - 30% - 10%, I get a cream with 3%spironolactone, 3%GTE,0.01 retA, or do you think that this plainly a waste of the 3 creams?

- I've been using minoxidil for a long time. Do you think that Spectral DNC (minoxidil plus adenosine, procyanidin...) will add anything to this regimen? It looks good to me, but...do you think the product is legitimate? I mean, they have encapsulated in nanosomes or whatever all of that, looks top notch techno, and then they recommend to shake the bottle...

Many thanks

P.S. As you know, In Spanish we use adjective after noun, but we can change that order, to change meaning, emphasize, or in a poetic fashion
Poor = Pobre. Man = Hombre
Un hombre pobre = a poor man.
Un pobre hombre = a loser

Next post, I ll tell you a general rule to remember gender of nouns in Spanish, it might happen in French as well, I don't know.

 

[viperfish]

I would recommend proxiphen over spectral. I think applying tricomin at a different time than proxiphen could be very beneficial.

 

[Jacobo]

Sure Proxiphen is better. I already ordered it. But I want to use minoxidil 1 x day on addition, I am buying Proxiphen mostly for the rest of stuff on it, not for the minoxidil. Do you think Spectral worths the extra $$ over dr Lee plain 5% minoxidil? (I'd rather go bald than using kirkland again).

And then, thinking that I am going to use Proxiphen, I'd like to know if you think tricomin will be plain overkill, or the different copper pep. Tricomin has patented can add something to the ones in Proxiphen.

Thanks Viperfish, I think I didn't explain it properly in the past post

 

[Guest]

whats wrong with kirkland? ppg giving you flakes?

 

[Jacobo]

It makes my hair look sh*t. Greasy and sticky for 4 hours at least. I just use it bedtime. I am trying Dr Lee's item 500, not sure if my scalp can take so much alcohol. I've read good reviews about Spectral, but I don't like the way they advertize their products ("best hair treatment in the world...") I'd be happy if it was just a cosmetically acceptable minoxidil, but with all that mix of ingredients... even if that's true, and Spectral has minoxidil+Aminexil+ Procyanidin+ Adenosine for real, I don't think they are so many labs on the market that can make a mix like that stable - with no interaction (Dr Proctor products play in a different league I think)

BTW, why Rob Lowe?

 

[Jacobo]

Also, Do you think Bryan will reply, or he is not bothered with newbies?

 

[Bryan]

Oops! Sorry, I overlooked your post before! I promise that I'll reply a little later today...

Bryan

 

[Jacobo]

No worries, happy to know that you know. Life is waiting... . But if you don't reply I will use minoxidil with retin-a 5%, in the same bottle. And some Azelaic Azid on top, to inhibit DHT . :lol:[/quote]

 

[viperfish]

I would highly recommend the new minoxidil foam. If what your looking for is a morning application of minoxidil that dries quick and is cosmetically acceptable. I apply the foam in the morning and proxiphen at night.

Tricomin is a specific cu peptide, different than what is found in proxiphen. Correct me if I am wrong Bryan.

 

[Jacobo]

Thanks, Viperfix

I'll give a go to the foam them, I have already ordered Dr Lee's 5% minoxidil (the quick dry one), but I think it will be to harsh (it's something like 50% ethanol, and ethanol used to irritate my scalp).

Tricomin has a patented copper peptide (triamino something). I suppose nobody else can use it. I suppose nobody will analize proxiphen to check that it hasn't got it, BTW.

I'm not sure if I get it right: Copper peptides (and spin-traps, etc) have got SOD activity (whatever it is). Then, if I get plenty of SOD activity from Proxiphen, I won't need Tricomin. Well, I can use it for extra SOD activity (or Prox-n, then). But more of the same, not any specific way of working that just Tricomin can achieve. I tend to think that Tricomin induced hair growth can be maintain for, let's say, Prox-n, and it doesn't happen the same as in Minoxidil.

I am probably a bit a*** about this, but I am trying to get it right. Far too much information in too short time for me, and English is not my first language (not in my big 3 even ). I am going to start my new regimen in 11 days, and this will be the last chance I give to any hairloss treatment: 2007, if in a year doesn't improve, that will be me done.

 

[viperfish]

Yes you may find Dr. Lee's minoxidil to be a bit harsh on the scalp. I found that to be the case. However, the foam has not caused me a single problem yet.

 

[Bryan]

- Tricomin, do you think that different copper peptides could help in different ways than the ones in Proxiphen, or basically the top one (proxiphen) will make the weaker (tricomin) pointless?

In past years on the newsgroup alt.baldspot, people have occasionally asked Dr. Proctor what his opinion is of using other products along with Proxiphen. His general answer has always been something to the effect: "the more, the merrier". So in general, I suppose if you have the money to spend on all this stuff, it's ok to add additional products like Tricomin, although I wouldn't expect a whole lot of additional improvement over what you get with Proxiphen alone.

- spironolactone: I've read your thoughts about proxiphen weaknesses: no 5ar inhibitor (2 or 3 dutas a week will sort that out, BTW, 2 or 3???) and weak AR blocker. I don't trust fluridil, neither want to import RU powder, it looks like a mission for me.

I agree with you about the fluridil. With each succeeding year that goes by without any independent testing of fluridil, I get more and more suspicious of it.

I will just carry on with "mediocre" spironolactone. I could try proxiphen 1xday and spironolactone 2xday (8 hrs between aplications), or just one spironolactone application 12 hrs after proxiphen? If you think that it will make a difference, I don't bother the extra work. Michael Barry posted that it works 4 hours strongish and 4 hours mediocre-ish, but then using cream should help slowing absortion???

Probably.

Since I don't think topical spironolactone is particularly powerful in the first place, especially in the small quantities used in Proxiphen, I certainly don't have any objection to supplementing Proxiphen with some additional spironolactone, if you don't mind the additional effort and expense. Use it at a different time than when you use the Proxiphen, of course.

Quick quiz: I have in my desk:
5% spironolactone cream(dr Lee), 10% Green tea ext. cream, 0.1% retin-a cream.
I mix 60% - 30% - 10%, I get a cream with 3%spironolactone, 3%GTE,0.01 retA, or do you think that this plainly a waste of the 3 creams?

Can't say for sure, but it's probably ok.

- I've been using minoxidil for a long time. Do you think that Spectral DNC (minoxidil plus adenosine, procyanidin...) will add anything to this regimen? It looks good to me, but...do you think the product is legitimate? I mean, they have encapsulated in nanosomes or whatever all of that, looks top notch techno, and then they recommend to shake the bottle...

I have no opinion on that product, since all I know about it is what I've read on their Web site. As far as I know, there's no independent testing of it that's been done. So I would say the same thing as I did before about Tricomin: if you want to spend more money on additional products, it's probably ok. I'd use it at some other time than Proxiphen, of course.

P.S. As you know, In Spanish we use adjective after noun, but we can change that order, to change meaning, emphasize, or in a poetic fashion
Poor = Pobre. Man = Hombre
Un hombre pobre = a poor man.
Un pobre hombre = a loser

Next post, I ll tell you a general rule to remember gender of nouns in Spanish, it might happen in French as well, I don't know.

Hey, cool! I emailed my sister who lives in Paris (she speaks both French and Spanish), told her what you said, and asked her if she had ever heard of such a "general rule". Here is her reply:

"I have no idea! And have never heard of a general rule!! There's a sort of general rule, I suppose, that nouns that end in 'a' are feminine but there are many exceptions (ex. hand....la mano is feminine but it ends in an o). Anyway, will be interested to hear what he says."

Bryan

 

[Guest]

It makes my hair look sh*t. Greasy and sticky for 4 hours at least. I just use it bedtime. I am trying Dr Lee's item 500, not sure if my scalp can take so much alcohol. I've read good reviews about Spectral, but I don't like the way they advertize their products ("best hair treatment in the world...") I'd be happy if it was just a cosmetically acceptable minoxidil, but with all that mix of ingredients... even if that's true, and Spectral has minoxidil+Aminexil+ Procyanidin+ Adenosine for real, I don't think they are so many labs on the market that can make a mix like that stable - with no interaction (Dr Proctor products play in a different league I think)

BTW, why Rob Lowe?

gotcha. i dunno. i just liked the pic and thought it would be a good avatar.

 

[Guest]

Also, Do you think Bryan will reply, or he is not bothered with newbies?

you could also look into RU if you want a great topical. pricey though

 

[Jacobo]

you could also look into RU if you want a great topical. pricey though[/quote]
Thanks, Jayman. But all my experiences with expensive imported raw powder are finished :hairy: Well, if I could find reliable RU pre-made, I ll buy it. But... it is too hassle for me, pricey as you said, the freshness issue... I'd rather spend more in Proctor' stuff if necessary. Also, I hope that Proxiphen in the future will include it.

 

[Jacobo]

Also, Do you think Bryan will reply, or he is not bothered with newbies?

you could also look into RU if you want a great topical. pricey though

I was practising "quote" function, sorry :lol:

 

[Jacobo]

Yes you may find Dr. Lee's minoxidil to be a bit harsh on the scalp. I found that to be the case. However, the foam has not caused me a single problem yet.

I have just bought it, as well. I think the only proven method that I am not trying YET is Ernie Primeau's. Crazier and Crazier.

 

[Jacobo]

To Bryan -and anybody interested, of course-

I do appreciate your comments, I think somehow I could anticipate part of your answers, after reading hundreds of your posts. that feeling that I needed your written confirmation before starting this new regimen. Thank you.

I owe you this one about the genres in Spanish (BTW, I posted about "timing" in your "difference between languages" thread.

There are not a general rule that cover all words, your sister is right. There are some rules that work for some similar words. But that guess of her as a rule (words finishing in o are masculine, words finishing in a are feminine) is really close to a general rule for almost all words meaning things. Excepcions, as she said, mano and others like dinamo (because is a neologism), also libido - libid? (recent introduction - Freud "invented" the word adapting it from latin I think) And in the other direction, dia (el dia - the day).

Anyhow, I bet she will not find much more exceptions to that rule than those. I think your sister said "they are many exceptions" due to the fact that some words are feminine (alma-soul), but we use the word with "el" : the soul = el alma, but that is just an evolution of the language to avoid the "cacophony" la_alma. The word is still feminine, and the plural is "las almas". Same with the axe, the axes = el hacha, las hachas (h between vowels or at the beginning of the word is always mute in Spanish)

Interestingly, el mar (the sea) is masculine. But a poet, or a fishermen, will say "la mar" in feminine, which express a more intimate relation - esthetic or material. Same way in English you use she or her for ships or cars. But it sounds really snob (at least, to me) somebody using "la mar" in normal conversation far away from the seaside (Quite common in Madrid posh weekend sailors)

you asked somewhere (don't remember the thread) about how people could remember the genres. I can understand that it might be a problem if you learn a language after your childhood. A German friend of mine, living in Spain most of his life, with a really polished Spanish, sometimes make the odd mistake. That is not a communication problem at all. The Frenchs will probably correct you, but that is because they are Frenchs.

A native speaker of Spanish has grown up with the gender implicit in each word repeated in his mind during years. I will not think in the gender of a word, I just use it correctly -I hope-. When you use a tricky irregular English verb, do you try to conjugate it? I am sure you just use it. I do some mistakes specially speaking like how many for how much, I am sure you use both correctly without thinking.

Language is a miracle. How can we actually remember without hesitation in an instant to make some sounds or type some keys in a keyboard to make a word. And with that we give a name to thousands of things or elaborate complex thoughts, irony...That for me is much more difficult to understand than how we can remember genres of words.

You asked why the evolution of the language did not simplify that issue. Well, I don't know, but I like it like that... Why you (the English speaking contingent) don't start simplifying spellings and sounds:lol: One think that is shocking in any US movie for Spaniards is everybody asking for spelling of names, roads, surnames...it looks even confusing for you. In Spanish you ask very very occasionally for spellings, just the odd ask if a surname has b or v, or ll or y (same sounds in modern Spanish)

If you don't mind a recomendation, check Umberto Eco "Mouse or rat? translation as negotiation" 2003, I don't know the American publisher. A feast for difference between languages, etc and all of that you are interested.

Well, to anybody who read untill the very end, thank you and Merry Christmas - Feliz Navidad

 

[Jacobo]

I pressed the wrong button again, I was trying to correct spelling in my last post :lol:

 

[Jacobo]

BRYAN SAID: "Since I don't think topical spironolactone is particularly powerful in the first place, especially in the small quantities used in Proxiphen, I certainly don't have any objection to supplementing Proxiphen with some additional spironolactone, if you don't mind the additional effort and expense. Use it at a different time than when you use the Proxiphen, of course".

spironolactone will need application every 12, ideally 8 hrs on cream to be effective, right? Dr Proctor recommends (after 8 to 12 months every day) 1 applic. of Proxiphen every 48 hours for maintenance!!!

Do you think that Dr Proctor believes that spironolactone is pointless, and includes it for marketing purposes...knowing that the rest of his stuff (pbn,tempol,nano...) will do the job...but without looking (Proctor himself) too outside conventional treatments?