ASC-J9

[abcdefg]

I guess the whole thing with hair loss is there is no point in really treating it unless its bad like a NW2 or worse. Maybe ill wait for a bald spot i guess to see if I have male pattern baldness and then start treatment. I dont think any hairloss treatment is really even worth using considering the risks involved and treatments as of today arent exactly turning men from Norwood 5 to teenage hairlines.

My head itches constantly but 2 derms dont know why they say seb derm but the shampoos didnt help. I have no freaking clue and im pretty sure science doesnt either.

I guess we just wait for something like asc-j9 or RU so we can safely stop androgens I guess.

 

[blaze]

RU is available though. It just costs a bit.

But it is available. RU plus a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor should stop Androgenetic Alopecia cold.

 

[eddy_simpson]

has it stopped male pattern baldness for you then blaze? Presumably you are using it if you consider to be so good. If not, why?

 

[cal]

As for the ASC-J9,
I've never understood the mild response that this drug has gotten from the male pattern baldness community in the last few years. Everyone absolutely sh*ts themselves talking about RU for years & years despite a spotty record and no commercialization. But compared to RU, ASC-J9 still seems to be second-fiddle in everyone's minds.


ASC-J9 is acting upon a different principle than any current male pattern baldness drug, so it's a true addition to the arsenal rather than just a substitution. It's working on the DHT problem rather than being just another growth stimulant so it's a long-term gainer. It's topical. It's based more directly on a natural substance. It's probably not subject to RU's stabilization issues. It's gonna be a relatively widespread targeted product (read: cheap) when it comes out with multiple uses. And it's steadily moving towards commercialization without any big stalls so far.

All that sounds like one hell of a grand slam they've got in the works, don't you think?

 

[abcdefg]

Ignore some of my earlier stupid posts. i dont know what i was thinking on some of those. dht causes increased sebum production. finasteride does not effect 5 ar 1 enzyme which I guess is believed to be mainly the enzyme that converts T to the dht that causes the increased sebum production. If finasteride doesnt effect the enzyme that is mainly thought to kick start sebum production then how does finasteride stop hair loss?

I know its been asked but I dont remember the answer. Do hermaphradites have normal sebum production?
Also a question maybe a little off topic. What does the 5 ar type 1 enzyme do in the skin? I know its found there in large amounts as it is in the brain. Do we know what these enzymes specifically do in the brain or the skin?

Is it safe to say since finasteride seems to work well on hairloss and they targeted the type 2 enzyme and not type 1 that sebum isnt really important in male pattern baldness?

 

[Armando Jose]

I know its been asked but I dont remember the answer. Do hermaphradites have normal sebum production?

In contrast, adult male pseudohermaphrodites with 5cY-reductase deficiency and a selective decrease in DHT production had sebum production scores identical to normal age-matched males.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/76/2/524

Armando

 

[Bryan]

As for the ASC-J9,
I've never understood the mild response that this drug has gotten from the male pattern baldness community in the last few years. Everyone absolutely sh*ts themselves talking about RU for years & years despite a spotty record and no commercialization. But compared to RU, ASC-J9 still seems to be second-fiddle in everyone's minds.

It's still relatively unknown and untested. If and when it ever gets to the point of being the subject of medical journal studies and tested in stumptailed macaques and then (GASP!) humans, then I'll start getting interested in it. Until then, I'm not going to be holding my breath while waiting for it.

 

[Bryan]

dht causes increased sebum production. finasteride does not effect 5 ar 1 enzyme which I guess is believed to be mainly the enzyme that converts T to the dht that causes the increased sebum production. If finasteride doesnt effect the enzyme that is mainly thought to kick start sebum production then how does finasteride stop hair loss?

HAIR FOLLICLES CONTAIN TYPE 2.

Hair follicles contain type 2, sebaceous glands contain type 1. Capische?

I know its been asked but I dont remember the answer. Do hermaphradites have normal sebum production?

Yes.

Also a question maybe a little off topic. What does the 5 ar type 1 enzyme do in the skin? I know its found there in large amounts as it is in the brain. Do we know what these enzymes specifically do in the brain or the skin?

I believe most of the 5a-reductase in the skin is the type 1 version that's inside sebaceous glands. I'm not sure what all the purposes are for the type 1 in the brain, but it _does_ do other chemical conversions besides just turning T into DHT.

Is it safe to say since finasteride seems to work well on hairloss and they targeted the type 2 enzyme and not type 1 that sebum isnt really important in male pattern baldness?

Correct.

 

[abcdefg]

without calling me stupid or something of that sort. 5 ar type 2 enzyme is also thought to be responsible for body hair and facial hair growth right? does the presence of dht trigger it to start? or is dht required constantly to keep body hair growing?
If dht triggers body and facial hair growth then cant that be used as a measure of how much dht in general a man has?
I dont want to sound stupid but in general most men that are older and have all there hair like teenage hairlines seem to always have very little if any facial hair. At least thats what I and other people seem to notice in general. Not always but most of the time.

 

[cal]

It's still relatively unknown and untested. If and when it ever gets to the point of being the subject of medical journal studies and tested in stumptailed macaques and then (GASP!) humans, then I'll start getting interested in it. Until then, I'm not going to be holding my breath while waiting for it.

Aren't they already a lot farther than that with their acne plans for the stuff though?

I know not everything that helps acne is gonna help male pattern baldness, but this particular case it seems very likely to me. If it passes all the safety trials with flying colors & shows no sytemic effects, then it seems like the hardcore male pattern baldness world could at least start experimenting with the stuff.

 

[Bryan]

without calling me stupid or something of that sort. 5 ar type 2 enzyme is also thought to be responsible for body hair and facial hair growth right? does the presence of dht trigger it to start? or is dht required constantly to keep body hair growing?

I wouldn't go so far as to say that DHT is responsible for body hair, or that it triggers it to start, and certainly not that it's required constantly to keep it growing. Reports indicate that finasteride (and probably dutasteride, too) has only a small overall effect on body hair.

Evidently, other androgens besides DHT can help support the growth of body hair, too. In fact, some body hair may grow reasonably well without any androgenic stimulation at all, once it's been established. I've also read that eyebrows specifically aren't affected one way or the other by androgens.

 

[abcdefg]

For a body hair to become established in the first place what is required? People with 5 ar 2 deficiency they still get some facial hair and body hair? if someone took propecia before they ever got any facial hair say before puberty would they develop less facial hair then they would have without ever taking propecia?

 

[Bryan]

For a body hair to become established in the first place what is required? People with 5 ar 2 deficiency they still get some facial hair and body hair?

Yeah, but it's more sparse than it is in normal people.

if someone took propecia before they ever got any facial hair say before puberty would they develop less facial hair then they would have without ever taking propecia?

I think so. I suspect their body hair would be more sparse if they started taking Propecia PRIOR to puberty, than if they waited until well AFTER puberty.