Are There 2 Types Of Male Pattern Baldness?

BeatingNorwoodReaper

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So as far as i know DHT increases beard and body hair. So there are some guys completely bald but extremely hairy body and thick beard. So their hair loss is happening because of too much DHT.

But there are other guys who dont have any body hair and a beard. But they are still losing the hair. So can we say that their hair are extremely sensitive to DHT? Even the low amount of it can cause hairloss.

So is it possible to say finasteride would work better in terms of sides with really hairy guys? Because they already have high DHT. So lowering it doesnt cause too much sides. But men with less body hair and beard can be affected from finasteride sides more because their DHT is already low and their hair is sensitive to DHT too much.

I dont know if there is any science behind what i said :D And i am new too all of this so it is good to hear your opinions so please share.
 

baba_yaga

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More body hair =/= higher DHT levels. However, I remember a study claiming that hairy guys have a better response rate (on average) to finasteride.
 

BeatingNorwoodReaper

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More body hair =/= higher DHT levels. However, I remember a study claiming that hairy guys have a better response rate (on average) to finasteride.
Yeah according to that. Can we say people who dont have body hair but still balding are really prone to DHT attacks? And people with more body hair are losing hair because of too much DHT.
 

Mandar kumthekar

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It is not hairy or non hairy person. People who are balding have DHT sensitive hairs on scalp which has NO RELATIoN WITH BODY HAIR OR amount OF DHT.
 

crikey1980

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I think this is partially true, I think if you don't have a lot of body hair then in a lot of cases you don't have a lot of dht however you may have a ton of DHT but don't express body hair so it's not conclusive.
However if you have tons of body hair then you defintley have a lot of dht running through your blood.
 

BeatingNorwoodReaper

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I think this is partially true, I think if you don't have a lot of body hair then in a lot of cases you don't have a lot of dht however you may have a ton of DHT but don't express body hair so it's not conclusive.
However if you have tons of body hair then you defintley have a lot of dht running through your blood.
Well i trusted my thick beard and took 0.5 mg finasteride now i feel dizzy :D
 

TomRiddle

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I think this is partially true, I think if you don't have a lot of body hair then in a lot of cases you don't have a lot of dht however you may have a ton of DHT but don't express body hair so it's not conclusive.
However if you have tons of body hair then you defintley have a lot of dht running through your blood.

Bullshit, the human body has a number of follicles through out the body that is assigned from your mothers womb, aprox 5 million follicles from which 100-150k on the head. There is absolutely no correlation between SERUM(BLOOD) DHT and the balding process or how hairy you can be.

The hair is only activated or miniaturized by androgens, they actually theorized lately that the hair that does not fall from the balding head is not androgen dependent at all, but it's just a theory, like most of them are. The only tests they have done through biopsy showed more activity of the 5AR and lowered aromatase in the balding parts of the head compared to the none balding parts of it, and more receptors in some cases. And with all of this, only the tissue DHT that is produce locally matters for hair, growing or miniaturizing it, SERUM DHT has nothing to do with it and even if it's specified in every literature, 90% of people that suffer from hair loss, have no idea about it and show no interest in learning it anyways...
 
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Ollie

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Its all to do with the activation of the AR and the effect AR activation has for an individual person. Androgens are the catalyst to the process however branching out beyond that is likely tons of different mechanisms that play significant roles - such as inflammation.
Beyond AR activation some people just clearly dont get the effects that cause the miniaturisation process - some people can take Tren and lose no hair at all which is insane.
 

BeatingNorwoodReaper

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Thanks for the interest! Seems like things arent that simple. Although it is possible to say there is a connection but it is not the only factor. I see a lot of people saying they lost some of their body hair after using finasteride.


Results? Sides?
It was my first pill so no results and no sides :D Will see what happens in the future.
 

TomRiddle

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Yeah, it's because not only the scalp tissue is depleted of DHT because of finasteride, it's also the other tissues that are androgen dependent and use DHT like growing body hair for example. But the tissue DHT is what matters and it's logical that by inhibiting 70% of the total serum DHT, the tissue one falls also, 50% or something from the scalp and who knows how much from the other dependent tissues, never really saw studies on every tissue individual except the scalp one, and of course that everyone must consider the individual perspective because everyone is different and has different values, reacts differently, etc.
 
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Armando Jose

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only the tissue DHT that is produce locally matters for hair, growing or miniaturizing it, SERUM DHT has nothing to do with it and even if it's specified in every literature, 90% of people that suffer from hair loss, have no idea about it and show no interest in learning it anyways...

Exactly, white as milk, important androgens for hair are made inside pilosebaceous unit, aka hair.
 

Michealdra

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there are those that are bald at 18 year old. genetic is the reason and no drug would help them. then there are those who start loosing hair through out their 20s to 30s.. cause dht and inflammation and other factors.
 

Armando Jose

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The only tests they have done through biopsy showed more activity of the 5AR and lowered aromatase in the balding parts of the head compared to the none balding parts of it, and more receptors in some cases
But it is the same with healthy people, or only when they are affected by common hairloss?

Androgenetic Alopecia is multifactorial
Exactly, then we must to know whch is the triggering and initial factor



Clearly serum DHT levels and scalp DHT are correlated.
have you any dates?
 

TomRiddle

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But it is the same with healthy people, or only when they are affected by common hairloss?


Exactly, then we must to know whch is the triggering and initial factor



have you any dates?

If you mean by healthy people non balding people, they had the same 5AR and aromatase activity around the whole scalp, that's at least until the miniaturization begins, if it begins in the first place cos there are some lucky ones that die with that juvenile hairlines, even if they are very rare cases.

They theorize that the non balding hair is non androgen dependent or some say that some develop that sensitivity with time for whatever reasons, but as i said, there are only theories, like the genetics one is also. Which and what other factors are involved, hard to tell, you have to think that if the people who work and have the actual resources, experience regarding this don't find the actual mechanism, i doubt we will ever :)

I read a lot and i only bookmarked what i thought it was really important, i really can't get sources now for all i have read in all the years since i started reading in dept about hair loss. But with the proper search google has all the answers, it depends who is reading them and what he understands but it's the same information available to us all, in the majority of cases at least, i would like to know more of course like most of us would for sure...
 

Armando Jose

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Hi Tom
Thank you for yours comments,

If you mean by healthy people non balding people, they had the same 5AR and aromatase activity around the whole scalp
Exactly, childrens (boys and girls) have the same hormone activty around the whole scalp, as common sense indicate, then there is somethong that change it passing the time.....

They theorize that the non balding hair is non androgen dependent
Bad conjeture, why they did not theorize about scalp hair as androgen dependent? Regarding body hair is inquestionable.

there are only theories, like the genetics one is also.
Genetic, a theory? Interesting point of view.....
I like also theories ;)

if the people who work and have the actual resources, experience regarding this don't find the actual mechanism, i doubt we will ever
Why? Possibly their assumptions are erroneous,..., see his conjeture,..., more when pharms want find a cure not a prevention, and more when prevention, imo, is very cheap

I read a lot and i only bookmarked what i thought it was really important, i really can't get sources now for all i have read in all the years since i started reading in dept about hair loss
I also read a lot of this stuff (*), and I found scarcey papers about my idea that childrens (2/4 years) and prepubertals have hormones in scalp hair, but only in this area. A simple question, The chldrens, have sebum in scalp hair? Yes or Not?
(*) mostly papers on hair
 

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TomRiddle

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Hi Tom
Thank you for yours comments,


Exactly, childrens (boys and girls) have the same hormone activty around the whole scalp, as common sense indicate, then there is somethong that change it passing the time.....


Bad conjeture, why they did not theorize about scalp hair as androgen dependent? Regarding body hair is inquestionable.


Genetic, a theory? Interesting point of view.....
I like also theories ;)


Why? Possibly their assumptions are erroneous,..., see his conjeture,..., more when pharms want find a cure not a prevention, and more when prevention, imo, is very cheap


I also read a lot of this stuff (*), and I found scarcey papers about my idea that childrens (2/4 years) and prepubertals have hormones in scalp hair, but only in this area. A simple question, The chldrens, have sebum in scalp hair? Yes or Not?
(*) mostly papers on hair

Very interesting, i heard something about this but never actually read something more in dept about it. I really don't know, unfortunately even if i know for sure that science lacks a lot of things in a lot of domains, not just in hair loss, i lack the funds, knowledge and experience to have more information than we already have available. There is so much contradicting information that even the biggest doctors in the world are getting confused on which path to follow to really find out what's the real problem or how to fight it, that's why they are trying on different pathways. There are a lot of smart people that don't have funds and studied a lot this problem, there are the transgenders who actually grow hair most of them from their strong treatments, so we have a lot of things, but we still can't understand it fully so until somebody finds something really revolutionary and more clear, we are stuck and have to keep on looking...

We also have to keep in mind the marketing behind it, the money that is to be made, a lot of other factors that can influence a treatment or cure for this cosmetic discomfort, unfortunately, it's not that simple, even if a lot of people refuse to believe it. And regarding the children and prepubertals i have no idea if they have sebum or not, i never actually read something about this, even if i saw in a lot of studies a strong correlation between overreacting sebum glands in the balding scalp compared to the non balding scalp, there are too many factors that seem to be involved and until we find out the root cause, i don't think we will solve the "puzzle".
 

Armando Jose

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And regarding the children and prepubertals i have no idea

A healthy hair needs sebum, a hair wash of childrens is enough to know it, but scarcey papers also point to it
" in the absence of SGs, separation of the hair shaft from the sheath is impaired, which prevents shaft exit and leads to follicle destruction". DOI: 10.1111/exd.12664
I understand that this fact can abolish the current androgenetic theory about common baldness
 

TomRiddle

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A healthy hair needs sebum, a hair wash of childrens is enough to know it, but scarcey papers also point to it
" in the absence of SGs, separation of the hair shaft from the sheath is impaired, which prevents shaft exit and leads to follicle destruction". DOI: 10.1111/exd.12664
I understand that this fact can abolish the current androgenetic theory about common baldness

Hmmm very interesting, do you have a link to these papers or are they just downloaded?
 
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