Anyone successful without finasteride and minoxidil?

[shyyguy123]

Just curious whether anyone has had success without the top 2 treatments?

There are a number of studies suggesting ketoconazole/piroctone olamine alone can stop hair loss. Also a few natural substances like Saw Palmetto and Pumpkin Seed Oil that do appear to inhibit DHT to some degree.

I'm guessing most people are too impatient to give those a fair shake though when they can just jump on something proven like finasteride. Myself included. Hard to resist the urge to just go get a script for finasteride.

Anyway I'm currently giving Nizoral/Piroctone Olamine and Pumpkin Seed Oil a shot. Been doing Nizoral/PO since early November and PSO since early December. My hair loss isn't too severe yet so I thought I'd give these a shot before a took the plunge on finasteride and minoxidil. I'm slightly concerned about finasteride sides (wouldn't stop me from going on it though if my hair loss gets any worse).

My hair has definitely thickened up a bit which I'd attribute to the Nizoral/PO. Not sure if PSO has done anything. I did notice some sexual sides the 1st week or two but I'm guessing that was probably my mind at work. Also my beard is growing significantly slower.

My hair genetics aren't too bad so I'm thinking mild treatments may be enough. My dad and all his brothers still have all their hair in their late 50's. None have any significant hairline recession, my dad's hair is has thinned pretty significantly all over though. My mom's dad did go bald eventually but he had all his hair until his late 50's. Her testimonial and photograph evidence support that claim.

 

[Rudolphus]

Nizoral and Piroctone Olamine are both far too weak to be able to stop your hair loss without also using finasteride. Nizoral does have some scientific backing behind it, but the truth is that it is much, much less effective than finasteride, and is highly unlikely to be able to work as a stand-alone treatment. Piroctone Olamine is essentially useless as a hair loss treatment, as is Pumpkin Seed Oil. Saw Palmetto most likely is useless also, but it is possible it could help a little, although the evidence for this is weak.

If you want to successfully treat male pattern baldness, you absolutely need to get on finasteride. I know it sucks that we don't have a better and safer alternative to 5-AR inhibitors yet, but it is the truth. The only thing currently available that really does work is 5-AR inhibitors (Finasteride or Dutasteride).

It appears from your family history that it is unlikely you would be prone to early-onset male pattern baldness. However, it is still possible as male pattern baldness can sometimes come seemingly out of nowhere. Could you post some pictures of your hair loss. It would help if we could see what your hairline and crown look like.

 

[Swoop]

Jup using RU-58841. In fact it is arguably stronger and better than finasteride. Besides RU you only have dutasteride/finasteride/(minoxidil) as an option tbh.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Jup using RU-58841. In fact it is arguably stronger and better than finasteride. Besides RU you only have dutasteride/finasteride/(minoxidil) as an option tbh.

I would like to read the arguments to support this claim. Where are they?

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Shyguy, those weaker treatments will likely not do very much at all. If your hair loss does stabilize it is most likely due to genetics than anything you are taking.

 

[Quantum Cat]

I would like to read the arguments to support this claim. Where are they?

the arguments to support the claim will all be from guys on messageboards claiming 'RU really works!- I can feel it growing my hair back!'

if you're looking for serious rigorous scientific trials, good luck because AFAIK there has never been any, letalone any safety evaluations.

 

[Swoop]

I would like to read the arguments to support this claim. Where are they?

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Shyguy, those weaker treatments will likely not do very much at all. If your hair loss does stabilize it is most likely due to genetics than anything you are taking.

I'm not going to explain all characteristics of RU-58841, there is enough information about that. Read it yourself and you'll understand why it is more exciting than finasteride. For a study comparison between finasteride and RU, where RU outperforms finasteride (small study though and in macaque) ; http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.elsevier-5d8b8e9a-87d8-3665-a251-1f766eb8cef1

CEO at the time;

http://resprotect.de/presse/artikel/040329_DRUGNEWSV13N13.pdf

 

[Wolf Pack]

I'm not going to explain all characteristics of RU-58841, there is enough information about that. Read it yourself and you'll understand why it is more exciting than finasteride. For a study comparison between finasteride and RU, where RU outperforms finasteride ; http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.elsevier-5d8b8e9a-87d8-3665-a251-1f766eb8cef1

CEO at the time;

That's like a phase 1 trial as it's on animals in a central/east european country. Rubbish parameters too. No efficacy or safety points as such on thousands of people. Also is that a double blind trial no confounding factors and so on.

Misleading as it hints that type 1 DHT has something to do with hair loss - very poor. Also doesn't say the academic titles of the authors.

I will stick to popping a pill, finasteride or dutasteride worse comes to worse until more evidence comes out. Still would hate to apply RU daily forever.

 

[Swoop]

That's like a phase 1 trial as it's on animals in a central/east european country. Rubbish parameters too. No efficacy or safety points as such on thousands of people. Also is that a double blind trial no confounding factors and so on.

Misleading as it hints that type 1 DHT has something to do with hair loss - very poor. Also doesn't say the academic titles of the authors.

I will stick to popping a pill, finasteride or dutasteride worse comes to worse until more evidence comes out. Still would hate to apply RU daily forever.

It isn't the best study you are correct. But it's simple. Anecdotal observation counts whether you want to believe it or not. People have been trying experimental treatments for ages and RU58841 is the only one which has "survived" and is increasing in popularity every year more and more. Whereas in the beginning phase only a few people dared to use it, thousands are probably using it now or have used it. The major advantage of RU is that it is a competitive AR antagonist and doesn't touch your hormones at all. Popping a pill is indeed more convenient. Nonetheless they all have their pro's and con's vs each other.

And btw that is a phase 2 trial (the picture) and a CEO isn't going to put up a quote like that if he can't prove that it has demonstrated equivalent or better net hair growth compared to finasteride;

http://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN71083772

 

[Rudolphus]

There's no way that RU is as effective as finasteride or dutasteride. If it was as effective as finasteride/dutasteride, there would be a lot more evidence by now of its effectiveness, and it would have become known to us.

 

[Quantum Cat]

, thousands are probably using it now or have used it.

have used it? if it's so effective why would anyone stop using it?

 

[Swoop]

There's no way that RU is as effective as finasteride or dutasteride. If it was as effective as finasteride/dutasteride, there would be a lot more evidence by now of its effectiveness, and it would have become known to us.

I guess you are only sitting in this forum and ain't watching other forums/private Androgenetic Alopecia forums.

Ohw wait or do I need to give tons of links to (respected) members across forums who acknowledge it works? Frankly some respected members have even said RU worked better for them than after having used dutasteride/finasteride. The 1st picture here above is of a member who had been on dutasteride for years and that improvement is from RU-588841. Just read yesterday a guy on a dutch hairloss forum who has had improvement with RU-58841 after 12 years of finasteride usage. Do I need to upload those pictures too for you ?

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have used it? if it's so effective why would anyone stop using it?

I would expect some more thorough thinking from a quantum cat lol. To answer your question; side effects. And it's not the holy grail obviously for everyone (nothing is), something with Androgenetic Alopecia being a polygenic inheritance and phenotypes.

 

[Sabbah]

I'm using minoxidil only, not propecia because it is poison. It is working but I also take vitamins and natural treatments.

 

[shyyguy123]

Not sure how people dismiss ketoconazole so easily?

There have been quite a few studies on it and they call come to the exact same conclusion. It decreases shedding, increases % of hair in anagen phase, and increases hair shaft diameter. Yet so many people are convinced it does nothing for hair loss...

Is it as good as finasteride? Of course not. But there is pretty strong evidence suggesting it can be quite helpful for male pattern baldness.

 

[Rudolphus]

Swoop, I'm not saying that RU does not work. I'm sure it is of benefit as a male pattern baldness treatment. However, there is very little evidence that it is as effective as finasteride or dutasteride.

In the 10-year Finasteride study that involved 118 men, only 14% of patients had decreased rates of hair growth, while 86% had increased or stable rates of hair growth after the 10 year period. Efficacy of the drug was found not to reduce over time for the majority of patients.

Dutasteride, meanwhile, would be expected to effective for well over 90% of users after 10 years. I'd put that figure at above 95%.

I'm sure that there are some men for whom RU is effective, but I highly doubt that that figure would be as high as 86% after 10 years of using RU.

 

[chipsy]

I used natural treatments on and off for 8 years. In my experience I belive they slowed things down in terms of recession and thinning. It wasn't til I bit the bullet and said enough is enough and jumped on finasteride/min/nizoral. I can now safely say that the loss has stopped completely and regrowth is occurring at a steady rate. Its up to you of course but I'd say that the majority of natural treatments are not strong enough to battle male pattern baldness

 

[azuri]

I used natural treatments on and off for 8 years. In my experience I belive they slowed things down in terms of recession and thinning. It wasn't til I bit the bullet and said enough is enough and jumped on finasteride/min/nizoral. I can now safely say that the loss has stopped completely and regrowth is occurring at a steady rate. Its up to you of course but I'd say that the majority of natural treatments are not strong enough to battle male pattern baldness

This

 

[Agustin Araujo]

I'm using minoxidil only, not propecia because it is poison. It is working but I also take vitamins and natural treatments.

If people think Finasteride's 60-70 percent reduction in DHT is bad enough, then wait till they learn about Dutasteride's 90+ percent reduction of DHT, that will terrify them. As of December 28th, 2014, I took my first 0.5 mg of Dutasteride and did not feel weird at all, as some men claim after like five minutes of taking the medication. I also checked if the Dutasteride I took was real and it is.

Hey shyyguy123, you'll really need to at least try Finasteride if you want to find out if you can keep your hair, you should be able to with that medication, it won't hurt to try. Use Minoxidil for hair regrowth and use a Ketoconazole shampoo to help stabilize scalp conditions.

 

[Notcoolanymore]

Not even worth it to fight the "propecia is poison" guys any more. If they want to sing their cute anti finasteride chants as they continue to lose more hair, then more power to them.

 

[Grammaton Cleric]

Not even worth it to fight the "propecia is poison" guys any more. If they want to sing their cute anti finasteride chants as they continue to lose more hair, then more power to them.

///:shakehead:

 

[Lollerme]

If you drop finasteride & min there's no chance you will make it, and you will end up like Fred with a bald head, depression and regretting that choice for the rest of your life