Anyone got any evolutionary theories for hairloss?

[Armando Jose]

Dear friend Michael;

I also have photos with people without common baldness and short hair(*) , but the key is that these people have a dense and thick hairs, then it is difficult to have problems in sebum flow. So, Michael, if you have photos of people with fine and short hair and low density without problems with common baldness, I am delighted to see them.

Androgens form part of the extremely complex biology of scalp hairs. This is the reason I put in my product natural antiandrogens. My idea is attack all angles in comon baldness, the same with the fibrosis (rose hip oil), and the same with bacterias and fungus (tea tree oil), the same with immflamatory process, etc., etc.

You are very cute posting the work “Effect of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and testosterone on apoptosis in human dermal papilla cellsâ€￾. The test was in vitro but its result are overwhelming: all hairs are sensible to T and DHT if they are in sufficient quantity.
This is the key: The amount of steroids in hair follicle. And the pilosebaceous unit make its own androgens, they are the importants.

Respect next June, in Vancouver is going to celebrate the International Meeting of Hair Research Society, and there is the posibility to present results about androgens in the vicinity of anagen scalp hairs in childrens before puberty. In my opinion androgens, like sebum, are vitals for all healthy hair, the problem can be the overproduction.

Did Dick Cheney use medications for hair? And what do you think about his possible problems with hair in his forties (comb over style)?

Finally, have you real probes that there is not any sebum in hairs from CAIS?


Armando

(*)http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shorthairnobaldnesstf0.jpg

 

[powersam]

there was a study done with ais mice that found that they had such crap sebum flow that the follicle often got destroyed due to backed up sebum. a search on pubmed will find you this study, ive posted it here before. also these mice had patchy scaly skin, which has often led me to doubt kligman.

however this is not what happens in male pattern baldness as the follicle itself has been observed to shrink has it not?


i think i liked this thread more when it was about evolution. you two should have your own little foote vs shelton forum.

 

[michael barry]

Powersam,

I would think that the scalp excercise that Tom Hagerty promotes for a few minutes before you shower would push any excess sebum to the surface of the scalp anyway so that it can be effectively washed of anyhow.

If backed up sebum really was causing baldness..............there would be an even better physical way to help remove it, squeeze the scalp with both hands from several inches apart, kind of like making a pimple burst, but from a longer distance.....................for 15 seconds or so, literally pushing sebum to the surface before you shower and wash it off.

A topical receptor blocker that would decrease the amount of sebum made would also help you produce less of it.


The fluridil photo on a buzz-cut man (third picture down on the link),
http://www.menspharma.com/results.htm
shows a man with THIN hair getting thicker with fluridil (which I dont think is as effective as topical spironolactone applied twice a day).


There is no quantitative way to really test Armando's theory in humans unless we can find someone with long hair who is slowly balding and keeps his hair long. I used to have relatively long hair in my teens and early twenties, but when I started receeding in my temples, I cut it shorter. Its kept about 2 inches long at the moment.

Ive went through about all I can on this theory. Im going to retire from this thread.....



But before I leave, let me state any evolutionary thoughts on baldness I have succinctly. If humans and apes both evolved from a common ancestor 3.5 million years ago named "lucy", and we know both humans and apes bald now.......................then perhaps that common ancestor balded also.

Ive wondered the same things about baldness that others have...............notably that apes bald, people who are from the equatorial regions of the earth seemed to bald less than northerners do (hispanics vs. Caucasians), but when examining that further.........................exceptions plauge the idea. Indian men from India and Pakistani men (like Karzai) bald pretty damn frequently. Eskimos, from way up north, hardly ever bald. There is quite a bit of baldness in the Arab world, yet there are also some of the best heads of hair you will ever see in the Arab world also.

Hair has vitamin D receptors and vitamin D3 seems to be associated in many articles with good hair growth, but ALL YOUR HAIR, including your body hair has vitamin D receptors, and many many many bald men have very hairy bodies.

Cold and baldness? People from the north (Caucasoids) seem to bald more, but theres that Eskimo problem again. Snow monkeys seem to bald much much less than other Apes from warm and hot climates do.

What advice could be gleaned from this? get some sun on your head when your a child, yet keep the head cool, keep cold water on it after the shower....................................................................................................................or just keep male hormone's away from it.


My own belief is that baldness GENES just happen to be enbedded in our genetic profile and some of us inherit them and some of dont. We know of 4 genes associated with baldness, with the matrilineal androgen receptor gene probably the biggest find. We know there are mutations and triplet repeat mutations in the androgen receptor gene that is associated with heightened uptake of androgens in particular areas leading to diseases and androgen-related disorders due to androgen overstimulation.

We have seen that insulin might make higher androgenic uptake in the skin take place and aggravate acne and baldness and diabetes and prostate cancer.............................thats about it.


But yet, vegetarain apes like bonoboos, macaques, gorillas, chimps, monkeys, etc. still bald, and some of them bald very often.

I dont think we "evolved toward more baldness", I think by looking at ancient artwork from 1500 B.C. Crete, and Greece and Sumeria, that we always were bald back from several thousands of years ago, and any increase is due to dietary changes we have been over a zillion times. Its like inheriting green eyes or freckles, its just part of the human condition, and soon I think it will be scientically defeated.


By the way, Armando......................George Carlin always wore his hair long http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

older,

http://lvol.com/bios/images/e49.jpg
older,
http://60sfurther.com/JustForFunPhotos/ ... lin-th.jpg


older, http://www.george-carlin.com/carlin.gif


now, http://a4.vox.com/6a00c2252669bb604a00c ... 4cd5-500pi



went male pattern baldness, wore long hair all those years.

 

[Pondle]

I dont think we "evolved toward more baldness", I think by looking at ancient artwork from 1500 B.C. Crete, and Greece and Sumeria, that we always were bald back from several thousands of years ago, and any increase is due to dietary changes we have been over a zillion times. Its like inheriting green eyes or freckles, its just part of the human condition, and soon I think it will be scientically defeated.

If there is more baldness today compared to some unspecified date in the recent or distant past (and probable lack of adequate stats would make this a bugger to assess) it could easily be due to:

(a) Higher fertility/lower mortality in ethnic groups prone to baldness relative to ethnic groups not prone to baldness. By way of comparison, there's a study that found 57% of American whites born between 1899 and 1905 had blue eyes whereas only 34% of those born between 1936 and 1951 did. This was probably due to immigration of southern Europeans to the USA and possibly higher fertility amongst the same groups. It's possible that changing ethnic composition of a given population could explain part of any change in the prevalence of male pattern baldness.

(b) Changes in the age structure of a population. The baby boom in the 50s and 60s was followed by the baby bust in the 70s; by virtue of more men being born 50 years ago as opposed to 30 years ago (and given that we know male pattern baldness becomes more common with age) male pattern baldness was bound to become more prevalent in an ageing society.

 

[Armando Jose]

Powersam;
You are right, this post is not suitable to discuss my theory, it’s about evolution and baldness. Only two things; my theory talks about cultural evolution regarding common baldness, and two: human evolution give us a luxuriant scalp hair, sophisticated asynchronous hair, and diminish body hair except sexual hair, and I don’t see reason to increase baldness. Human is the naked ape, but don’t the bald ape.
BTW, can you give us more details about such study done in mice regarding problems with sebum flow?


Michael Barry, you say:
“I used to have relatively long hair in my teens and early twenties, but when I started receding in my temples, I cut it shorterâ€￾.
Your comment is very interesting, possibly to George Carlin made the same thing, cut severily his hair. In Spain with the extinct military service, most of young people with long hairs (Rock&Roll style) cut severily his hair during several months and they suffer more profound the attack from sebum flow. It is easy imagine the sebaceous gland producing sebum in high quantity in these person with long hair, and one day they cut severity his hair, then the next and following days the sebaceous gland produce the same quantity of sebum than yesterday, and then problems with sebum flow are near.

For me, this is my last word in this post.

Thank you

Armando

 

[Bryan]

If you REALLY dont believe that alpha five type two DHT is responsible for baldness, why in the world do you put anti-androgens like lavender, tea tree, oregano, and cammomile in your baldness product?

Androgens form part of the extremely complex biology of scalp hairs. This is the reason I put in my product natural antiandrogens.

WHAT THE HELL???

Armando, do you have some kind of hairloss product that you're trying to sell?? Is THAT what's behind all this silly crap about "sebum flow"??

You appear to be competing really hard with Stephen Foote, Ernie Primeau, those shampoo guys, and a few others for winning the "Goofiest Hairloss Theory" award. It's evidently a coveted title to have, in these parts! :wink:

In my opinion androgens, like sebum, are vitals for all healthy hair, the problem can be the overproduction.

You would get along really well with a gentleman named Ernie Primeau! :wink:

Finally, have you real probes that there is not any sebum in hairs from CAIS?

Can you think of any reason why sebaceous glands in the scalp would produce sebum, but not anywhere else in the skin?

Bryan

 

[Old Baldy]

Bryan, Armando ain't NEAR AS BAD as the no shampoo guys!! At least Armando has a functioning, sharp brain!! (Well, Widow is pretty sharp but he's just too da** emotional. Also, Widow uses vinegar rinses which do clean the scalp.)

Armando, sebum may allow the growth of too much scalp flora but that's really about it IMHO. Otherwise, sebum ain't too important IMHO.

 

[michael barry]

Bryan,

Here is Armando's product for hair, http://www.disnatural.com/en/oropelum.asp

It inludes alot of ingredients one sees in herbal hairloss remedies like lavender, tea tree oil, oregano, rosemary, chamomille, etc.




Bryan,

You referred to Ernie Primeau as a gentlemen. Out of curiousity (to see if he is still at it), I logged onto alt.baldspot the other day. Ernie has really lost his mind at this point. I cannot believe the things that he posts. He posts a picture of himself basically eating feces, making soup out of feces,and sitting at a desk with feces all over his face. Anyone who posts there, gets greeted with Ernie's requests that they provide pictures of their genitalia in very exact terms, etc.

I thought the Ernie story was that he helped develop ReallyKrummy19 with some other guys and was going to meet with interested parties years ago in hotel in New York for a "conference", but Farrell et al came out against it and declared it bogus, thus ruining their prospective scam (which I suppose they were assuming would make them rich). The body hair stealing nutrient-theory was something Ernie had to concoct to make the product go.....................isnt' that about it?
I guess that since this failed, Ernie didn't get rich, and was not afforded the money to buy a bunch of young male prostitues as he probably would have done with his money. He really is a disgusting old freak. One of the wierdest stories Ive ever read about online is the Ernie Primeau phenomenon.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan,

Here is Armando's product for hair, http://www.disnatural.com/en/oropelum.asp

How'd you find out about that? I don't recall Armando talking about it before.

Bryan,

You referred to Ernie Primeau as a gentlemen. Out of curiousity (to see if he is still at it), I logged onto alt.baldspot the other day. Ernie has really lost his mind at this point. I cannot believe the things that he posts. He posts a picture of himself basically eating feces, making soup out of feces,and sitting at a desk with feces all over his face. Anyone who posts there, gets greeted with Ernie's requests that they provide pictures of their genitalia in very exact terms, etc.

I don't think that's the REAL Ernie. There are people who have been impersonating him for a long time, just to mess with him.

 

[michael barry]

bryan wrote"
"How'd you find out about that? I don't recall Armando talking about it before"


Armando himself, when he first came on the forums. Hairloss-reversible I think it was. Thats his product, from Spain. Ask him if you see him on here, although I think he said he was vacating this thread.

 

[Armando Jose]

Looking for old message, I found it.

By the way, Armando......................George Carlin always wore his hair long http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

older,

http://lvol.com/bios/images/e49.jpg
older,
http://60sfurther.com/JustForFunPhotos/ ... lin-th.jpg


older, http://www.george-carlin.com/carlin.gif


now, http://a4.vox.com/6a00c2252669bb604a00c ... 4cd5-500pi



went male pattern baldness, wore long hair all those years.

George Carling made the worst option, cut his long hair abruptly.
http://scrapsfromtheloft.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/George-Carlin-Playin-with-your-head.jpg

Powersam;
You are right, this post is not suitable to discuss my theory, it’s about evolution and baldness. Only two things; my theory talks about cultural evolution regarding common baldness, and two: human evolution give us a luxuriant scalp hair, sophisticated asynchronous hair, and diminish body hair except sexual hair, and I don’t see reason to increase baldness. Human is the naked ape, but don’t the bald ape.
BTW, can you give us more details about such study done in mice regarding problems with sebum flow?


Michael Barry, you say:
“I used to have relatively long hair in my teens and early twenties, but when I started receding in my temples, I cut it shorterâ€￾.
Your comment is very interesting, possibly to George Carlin made the same thing, cut severily his hair. In Spain with the extinct military service, most of young people with long hairs (Rock&Roll style) cut severily his hair during several months and they suffer more profound the attack from sebum flow. It is easy imagine the sebaceous gland producing sebum in high quantity in these person with long hair, and one day they cut severity his hair, then the next and following days the sebaceous gland produce the same quantity of sebum than yesterday, and then problems with sebum flow are near.

For me, this is my last word in this post.

Thank you

Armando

WHAT THE HELL???

Armando, do you have some kind of hairloss product that you're trying to sell?? Is THAT what's behind all this silly crap about "sebum flow"??

My bet to fight common hair loss

Bryan, Armando ain't NEAR AS BAD as the no shampoo guys!! At least Armando has a functioning, sharp brain!! (Well, Widow is pretty sharp but he's just too da** emotional. Also, Widow uses vinegar rinses which do clean the scalp.)

Armando, sebum may allow the growth of too much scalp flora but that's really about it IMHO. Otherwise, sebum ain't too important IMHO.

Thank you Old Baldy

Bryan,

Here is Armando's product for hair, http://www.disnatural.com/en/oropelum.asp

It inludes alot of ingredients one sees in herbal hairloss remedies like lavender, tea tree oil, oregano, rosemary, chamomille, etc.

Not working now

Bryan,

You referred to Ernie Primeau as a gentlemen. Out of curiousity (to see if he is still at it), I logged onto alt.baldspot the other day. Ernie has really lost his mind at this point. I cannot believe the things that he posts. He posts a picture of himself basically eating feces, making soup out of feces,and sitting at a desk with feces all over his face. Anyone who posts there, gets greeted with Ernie's requests that they provide pictures of their genitalia in very exact terms, etc.

I thought the Ernie story was that he helped develop ReallyKrummy19 with some other guys and was going to meet with interested parties years ago in hotel in New York for a "conference", but Farrell et al came out against it and declared it bogus, thus ruining their prospective scam (which I suppose they were assuming would make them rich). The body hair stealing nutrient-theory was something Ernie had to concoct to make the product go.....................isnt' that about it?
I guess that since this failed, Ernie didn't get rich, and was not afforded the money to buy a bunch of young male prostitues as he probably would have done with his money. He really is a disgusting old freak. One of the wierdest stories Ive ever read about online is the Ernie Primeau phenomenon.

Grossen palabren

How'd you find out about that? I don't recall Armando talking about it before.

Never I talked of my product in more than one decade

RIP my friend Bryan.

 

[SmoothSailing]

I think the vitamin D theory is the strongest, but I heard an interesting one recently (probably bullshit).

To help in fights, not being able to pull someone's hair, especially hair at the front, would help significantly in a fight.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Interesting thread
Thx for the bump

 

[Armando Jose]

I think the vitamin D theory is the strongest, but I heard an interesting one recently (probably bullshit).

To help in fights, not being able to pull someone's hair, especially hair at the front, would help significantly in a fight.

A few months I had conversation with a chilenian guy that used a lot of vit D topically, and he don't regained a lot of hair but mantained it in good conditions

 

[SmoothSailing]

A few months I had conversation with a chilenian guy that used a lot of vit D topically, and he don't regained a lot of hair but mantained it in good conditions

The theory doesn't actually suggest that hair is lost because of low vitamin D (although I have heard of this before).

What it states is that people with hairloss survived evolutionarily because they had increased vitamin D due to the increased skin exposure.

I like this theory as we can already see how vitamin D is important from an evolutionary standpoint when we look at what happened to skin color as people moved more northerly.

 

[Armando Jose]

It is interesting your point, but the synthesys of Vit D in skin need only a few minutes of sunlight

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4579804/figure/f2-ol-0-0-3519/

It was observed that the TEry varied between 12 min in the summer and 34 min in the winter for skin type IV

 

[SmoothSailing]

It is interesting your point, but the synthesys of Vit D in skin need only a few minutes of sunlight

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4579804/figure/f2-ol-0-0-3519/

It was observed that the TEry varied between 12 min in the summer and 34 min in the winter for skin type IV

I'm not denying that.

But it's widely accepted that white people developed white skin in order to maximize vitamin D synthesis.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-europeans-evolved-white-skin

So we already know that vitamin D synthesis is an important evolutionary driver. And it's obvious why having more exposed skin directed upwards would be beneficial for vitamin D synthesis.

It's just a theory though, but I still hold it as the best one I've read.

 

[BaldyBalderBald]

Yes, it seems that melanin is in greater quantity in equatorial and Southern countries to further protect from UV radiation and we lost it moving Nothern because we didn't need that much anymore, Vitamin D is quickly synthetised by the body

 

[Armando Jose]

, Vitamin D is quickly synthetised by the body

+1