Anyone got any evolutionary theories for hairloss?

DammitLetMeIn

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Why would humans have needed a bald head for survival? perhaps they didn't?

I've read a few theories:

one was that its to allow more sun to enter the body in cold northern climates...

or is it simply the sign of illness? given that its associated with so many maladies and imbalances...

u got any ideas?
 

WorldofWarcraft

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DammitLetMeIn said:
Why would humans have needed a bald head for survival? perhaps they didn't?

I've read a few theories:

one was that its to allow more sun to enter the body in cold northern climates...

or is it simply the sign of illness? given that its associated with so many maladies and imbalances...

u got any ideas?

Why do deer have to suffer 10 minutes of agonizing pain while they are eaten alive by wolves?

People think that nature is perfect, and if something is nature, it must have some purpose. Nature is full of many flaws and mistakes. Baldness is just a cruel flaw of nature.

What if we lost other things as we aged, like our fingers started falling off from DHT? That would suck.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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WorldofWarcraft said:
Why do deer have to suffer 10 minutes of agonizing pain while they are eaten alive by wolves?

People think that nature is perfect, and if something is nature, it must have some purpose. Nature is full of many flaws and mistakes. Baldness is just a cruel flaw of nature..

well, on the deer thing, dying has its purpose, i.e. to feed the wolves.

baldnes on the other hand doesn't appear to have a purpose
 

dietcola

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baldness is not a flaw of nature, it's a part of nature. just like aging is a part of nature. it's all natural things that occur in a human body. every single person in the world is different, and this is just one more thing that makes people visually different. like having attatched ear lobes or being short.

some of you guys gotta stop looking at it as being dealt the worst hand in a poker game. it's really not the end of the world, millions of men go bald. we're all part of that group. part of life. stop acting like delicate little flowers.
 
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dietcola said:
baldness is not a flaw of nature, it's a part of nature. just like aging is a part of nature. it's all natural things that occur in a human body. every single person in the world is different, and this is just one more thing that makes people visually different. like having attatched ear lobes or being short.

some of you guys gotta stop looking at it as being dealt the worst hand in a poker game. it's really not the end of the world, millions of men go bald. we're all part of that group. part of life. stop acting like delicate little flowers.

Yea you f*****g pussies!

:D
 

docj077

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There is a fine line between androgen receptor overstimulation and androgen receptor insensitivity.

It's more likely that the accumulation of triplet repeats in the androgen receptor is something that is species-wide and allows for humanity to get a taste of all the benefits of increased androgen sensitivity without the need for the production of more androgens or exogenous intake of androgens, which could cause damage to hormone producing tissues. This is especially true in men.

Increased sensitivity will increase all processes associated with androgen/androgen receptor binding including muscle growth, hair growth, and the production of growth factors in a beneficial manner up to a certain point.

However, I personally believe that the increase in growth factors like IGF-1 in the scalp secondary to androgen overstimulation causes a lack of keratinocyte differentiation and an increase in the proliferation of keratinocytes. Pro-apoptotic factors like TGF-beta also increase to counteract this phenomenon and increase keratinocyte apoptosis while remodeling the area of lost cells with increased collagen deposition and decreased collagenase activity.

Increased IGF-1 is also associated with an increase in T-cell mediated immune responses explaining the possible immune aspect of male pattern baldness.

The reason that this process has become one of loss instead of gain...like it should be...is that the androgen/androgen receptor interaction likely causes the production of too much growth factor and too much pro-apoptotic TGF-beta instead of simply increasing hair growth in response to increased androgens and increased IGF-1.

Personally, I see it as a genetic disorder causing the increased progression of an already innate physiological ability. I see it as evolution causing an undesirable outcome (like hairloss) in a situation that simply assists the species with maintaining its physical form.

It's nothing bad, but the continued accumulation of mutations is not a good thing, either. Who knows, men and women that have offspring with increased androgen sensitivity could one day have offspring that give birth to children with androgen insensitivity. That could very well be the natural progression of that particular disease.

That's just my opinion, however...
 

docj077

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Marcules said:
The Deer go into shock, WorldofWarcraft. They don't feel anything.

I used to work in a zoo that was fairly close to a go-cart track. One day a deer somehow made its way into the go-cart track, went completely insane and broke two of its legs. It continued to try and run around the track in a hysterical manner for about two hours with the bones of its legs protruding through the skin with blood gushing forth from the wounds.

Once the deer began to slowly lose consciousness, I walked up to it, laid my hand on its head and saw the shear terror leading into the calm in its eyes just before it died.

That, my friend, is an excellent example of an animal 'feeling'.

You could never convince me otherwise.
 

So

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Hair loss is the result of physiological stress amongst other forms. Please, I am not referring to the mental stress that we are subject to on a daily basis either such as the fact you may have no money, lot's of bills, etc.

Physiological and biological stressors.

Genetic mutations, deficiencies and or alterations of this nature did not occur for any measurable benefit. We brought this upon our selves, directly and or indirectly through the course of our evolution. You can thank those who walked the earth before you and those after us can thank us for doing nothing to change it, the course of future evolution.
 

wookster

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http://employees.csbsju.edu/lmealey/hot ... pter07.htm

primates.jpg


Our balding isn't peculiar to ourselves. It is found in several primate groups - apparently having evolved independently in all of them. South American uakari monkey balds with age even more completely than human beings. Male uakaris generally become more bald than females. Among the African monkeys the stump-tailed macaque males bald with age. Among the apes both the chimps and orangs experience balding, but the trait is highly variable among chimps - occurring more notably with age and more so among males than females.


[...]

What has this done for the male scalp? It has reversed the selection pressures for status opposite to long tresses - a bald head. One identifies a full head of hair with femininity and youth. The actors who are chosen to play the roles of very young men in movies or on television frequently have an unusually low hairline, so that the forehead is reduced to a narrow band of skin. This is also true of the "baby-doll" actresses. People with this kind of hairline look younger than their age.

The status signal of the high forehead is obscured by our current accent on youth. Head shaving is a common phenomenon among many tribes and often is done only by males. Interestingly enough, it is sometimes performed in a manner which exaggerates the natural balding patterns. For example, the South American Yanomano shave the crown of the head, leaving a wreath of hair. Scars from battle are exhibited in this manner. Another South American tribe, the Tchikrin, pluck all facial hair, even in small children. The men, especially, have their hair plucked back from the forehead to the crown or hair whorl area. It was a common practice during the 1800's for Chinese males to shave the forehead well back to the top of the head and then braid the remaining hair in a queue.


 

Bryan

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DammitLetMeIn said:
Why would humans have needed a bald head for survival? perhaps they didn't?

I've read a few theories:

one was that its to allow more sun to enter the body in cold northern climates...

You forgot to mention the theory that I've cited in the past: after reading Beards, Balding, and Sweat Secretion, I think it's a distinct possibility that balding evolved (and is evolving) in many primates as a means to supply extra cooling for the brain. It makes a lot of sense.

Bryan
 

The Gardener

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That's a good point. As man slowly evolved from a more animal-like hunter/gatherer animal towards a more cerebral thinker, the vascular system probably became more complex in the skull. Over time, the need for the hair to offer external protection and insulation gradually became less important than the need to cool down the blood vessel-rich skull tissues.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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Bryan said:
You forgot to mention the theory that I've cited in the past: after reading Beards, Balding, and Sweat Secretion, I think it's a distinct possibility that balding evolved (and is evolving) in many primates as a means to supply extra cooling for the brain. It makes a lot of sense.

Bryan

I had never heard or seen your theory prior to this point Bryan. Thanks for offering it up.

Its a good theory, however, baldness is consistently linked with other health problems which suggests that perhaps its a reaction to something going wrong inside the body perhaps?

I know of one family who have heart problems and one brother died at the age of 41 through a heart attack and the other is completely bald at the age of 35.

This may not mean much however.
 

docj077

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I don't know. Evolving in such a way just to remove heat seems like overkill for the body. Why would the body change the gene structure of a receptor just for that purpose and yet keep hair in the axillae and the groin? The testicles have a plexiform venous system wrapped around the arteries that supply their blood to encourage cooling. That would be a must better alternative.

I would think that the desired change would be a decrease in the synthesis of five alpha reductase in the scalp so as to cause a decrease in the production of potent hormones. This would simply decrease the amount of growth factors for hair and decrease hair growth overall in the scalp. Much more effective.

I guess that I shouldn't complain. Afterall, the human eye has part of it designed backwards, so why shouldn't the same be true of male pattern baldness.
 

michael barry

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Bryan,

Forgive me if Im wrong, but arent sweat glands stimulated by androgens? If so, should they not be overstimulated when hairs are missing and the circulating androgens have so little hair receptors to bind to, thus stimulating the sweat and sebaceous glands instead?




Gorillas not only develop baldness, but high foreheads to display social maturity. I have a problem with folks saying baldness evolved in people in the north so they could get more vitamin D or whatever. Snow monkeys in Japan dont bald much and have comparatively low hairlines, while Orangutans and some other apes bald much more frequently closer to the equator in hotter climes. We are more evolved than the apes are.



Doctor mentions triplet repeats in androgen receptor mutations, but our body hair certainly isn't negatively effected by this. Its funny (not to them though) that so many bald men have enough damn body hair to have a full head of hair. A few Ive seen are so hairy that you might consider it a pelt in its own right.



OF course we can always consider that option we dont want to think about and that is that God just decided to kick a few of us in the damned balls as hard as he could and balded us to see how we'd deal with it. I hate to think that, but it might be so.
 

DammitLetMeIn

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michael barry said:
Gorillas not only develop baldness, but high foreheads to display social maturity.

This is where I think we're different from monkeys/apes. Females in certain species have been known to mate with balding monkeys because they are said to be more dominant/mature.

I can't see this ever being the case in humans (i.e. women going specifically for balding men) so I don't feel the fact we are balding is a genetic throwback from this.

I personally (as things stand, although I'm willing to be persuaded) believe that baldness is a sign of aging and ill-health and that some negative bodily process has gone on internally to cause just such a condition.
 

Bryan

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The Gardener said:
That's a good point. As man slowly evolved from a more animal-like hunter/gatherer animal towards a more cerebral thinker, the vascular system probably became more complex in the skull. Over time, the need for the hair to offer external protection and insulation gradually became less important than the need to cool down the blood vessel-rich skull tissues.

Exactly! Or maybe slightly more to the point, the power consumption of steadily advancing primate brains has rather outstripped their natural and built-in means to keep them cool. Thus, an evolutionary pressure toward balding. Right now, I'm having a flashback to that wonderful scene in 2001: A Space Odyssey in which the primitive monkey, after having finally realized after eons of evolution that a piece of bone makes an excellent weapon with which to kill his rivals, hurls the bone in triumph high in the sky, which then morphs into a space ship! Our brains have indeed advanced in an evolutionarily short period of time, and (presumably) so has their power consumption and heat generation.

If any of you want to read that whole study, here's the full citation: "Beards, baldness, and sweat secretion", M. Cabanac and H. Brinnel, Eur J Appl Physiol (1988) 58:39-46. An irony of this is that Stephen Foote was the one who first brought that study to my attention. For some reason which I don't even remember anymore, he thinks that it supports his own eccentric theory about contact inhibition and balding! :wink:

Bryan
 

Bryan

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DammitLetMeIn said:
Its a good theory, however, baldness is consistently linked with other health problems which suggests that perhaps its a reaction to something going wrong inside the body perhaps?

I think it's an indirect effect. Baldness is obviously linked to androgens, and those other health issues are also linked to androgens in some way. Baldness doesn't directly cause (or is caused by) those other health issues. At least, as far as I know! :)

Bryan
 
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