aside from allergies or the like? It's an expensive thing to keep going with it you are seeing little to no to worse results on the crown. I don't have a hairline or temple problem. Mine is more a little around the vertex and killer around the crown. I'm using the 5% foam since Nov, and I'm a woman.
Any reason to ever stop rogaine?
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Stu85
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I'd also like to know, more specifically, if Rogaine hairs eventually die even with continued use of the product? Basically, does it lose it's effectiveness over time, or will the hairs grown with Rogaine always continue to respond providing they are subjected to a bi-daily dose of Rogaine?
H2O
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Stu85 said:
A metaphor to help you understand:
As a hair follicle on a person suffering from male pattern baldness gets older, it becomes more frail...the hair it makes grows thinner and grows shorter until it is so small and thin you cannot even see it.
Minoxidil "resets the time clock" for a follicle and turns it back to a more youthful state...let say it takes a 40 year old follicle and makes it feel like a 30 year old follicle. As long as you continue to use Minoxidil, the initial offset of ten years will continue. So in a year when the follicle is actually 41 it will feel like 31. Time continues to pass at its normal rate....but the follicle feels like it did in 1997 even though it is actually 2007. Now the follicle starts cranking out hair like it used to. But Minoxidil cannot "stop" time. It can only "offset" it by the, say, "10 years". So the follicle continues to age at a "normal" rate and will eventually, after 10 years, be 41 and weak again....you just "bought" yourself 10 years by cheating father time with Minoxidil.
Now a DHT blocker such as Propecia or Avodart (or some other topical DHT blocker) has a different special power. They actually "slow down time". So, for example, if you use Propecia even though, say, ten years have actually passed, the hair follicle will "age" only 5 years or less. Propecia has slowed down time. The more powerful the DHT blocker (the more DHT is blocked) the slower time passes for the follicle and so the longer the life of the follicle.
So in this metaphor (to address your question) Yes, even on Minoxidil you will eventually still loose hair "to age" at the same rate, you've just reset the time clock back a few years. It's not that you become "immune" to Minoxidil, but rather you've just used up the time that Minoxidil gave you because it cannot "stop" or "slow" time.
Propecia or Avodart will actually extend the life of the follicle by actually slowing down the "aging" process....not just offsetting a few years. So the moral of the story is....it is believed that the most effective treatment is a compliment of both, say, a potassium channel opener such as Minoxidil AND a "DHT blocker" of one form or another such as Propecia, Avodart, possibly spironolactone, etc. Make your hair "younger" with Minoxidil and then "slow down time" so it says younger longer with Propecia.
It should also be mentioned the "effect" both Minoxidil and Propecia induce on the hair follicle cease once treatment is discontinued. You can't just "reset time" with minoxidil and then stop using it. The illusion stops once the treatment stops. The same goes for Propecia. If Propecia made 10 years pass like 4 years, when you stop Propecia the follicle will go back to feeling like 10 years have passed and instantly become weak and old again.
Disclaimer: this is just a metaphor to help visualize the characteristic effects of the treatments discussed. The actual scientific reasons for their effectiveness in treating male pattern baldness is, of course, not discussed. The resulting effect, however, is generally accurate. Also when "ten years" is used in the example....this is not the actual time minoxidil will keep the hair. Again this is only for metaphorical use and the actual time minoxidil "keeps" a hair might be quite shorter of a span without the combining of other treatments.
Hi H2O:
Question for you regarding rogaine.
Case 1: Let's say on Day 1 I have 10000 hairs and I have male pattern baldness. Assuming I do nothing about it - let's say on Day 100 I have left 5000 hairs. And on day 200 I have 2500 hairs. So it's basically a halving every 100 days (hypothetically of course!).
Case 2: Now instead of doing nothing about let's say I take Rogaine on Day 1 and it works for me and on Day 100 I still have 10000 hairs (maybe even 11000). On Day 200 I would continue to have around 10000 hairs.
But let's say on Day 100 of the above where I have 10000 hairs, I stop using rogaine. Does that mean on Day 200 (i.e. 100 days later) I would have 5000 (as in case 2) or 2500 (as in case 1) hairs left? i.e. even if I stop using rogaine at some point, I gain 100 hairloss free days for the rest of my life? Or do I go back to the miserable 2500 hairs which is where I would have been even if I did nothing about it.
I hope that made sense.
Bruce
Question for you regarding rogaine.
Case 1: Let's say on Day 1 I have 10000 hairs and I have male pattern baldness. Assuming I do nothing about it - let's say on Day 100 I have left 5000 hairs. And on day 200 I have 2500 hairs. So it's basically a halving every 100 days (hypothetically of course!).
Case 2: Now instead of doing nothing about let's say I take Rogaine on Day 1 and it works for me and on Day 100 I still have 10000 hairs (maybe even 11000). On Day 200 I would continue to have around 10000 hairs.
But let's say on Day 100 of the above where I have 10000 hairs, I stop using rogaine. Does that mean on Day 200 (i.e. 100 days later) I would have 5000 (as in case 2) or 2500 (as in case 1) hairs left? i.e. even if I stop using rogaine at some point, I gain 100 hairloss free days for the rest of my life? Or do I go back to the miserable 2500 hairs which is where I would have been even if I did nothing about it.
I hope that made sense.
Bruce
The Dangerman
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AIUI, it will go back to Option 1 unfortunately. While taking treatments, you should pretend you also have a scalp with no treatment, and, fairly soon(max 12 months? Maybe less?) you will look like your "other scalp" that has had no treatment on it, which is where you would have been if you had not done a thing about it.
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H2O, I like your "time clock" analogy to describe the offset of growth that minoxidil provides! 
To all the others: you should just think of Rogaine as something that gives you a little more hair than you would otherwise have. It doesn't appear to interfere with the fundamental balding process. If you don't like the fact that it doesn't really slow the balding process (except in the very superficial sense of adding a little extra hair) or that the extra hair disappears if you stop using it, then don't bother with it. If you DO simply want the bit more hair that it provides while you're using it, then go ahead and use it. That's pretty much the whole story of minoxidil, in a nutshell.
Bryan
To all the others: you should just think of Rogaine as something that gives you a little more hair than you would otherwise have. It doesn't appear to interfere with the fundamental balding process. If you don't like the fact that it doesn't really slow the balding process (except in the very superficial sense of adding a little extra hair) or that the extra hair disappears if you stop using it, then don't bother with it. If you DO simply want the bit more hair that it provides while you're using it, then go ahead and use it. That's pretty much the whole story of minoxidil, in a nutshell.
Bryan
This whole offset business seems logical and that analogy was great. However, since starting Rogaine, I lose hardly ANY hair while showering (as opposed to over 100 per shower before). It seems like more than an offset.
i.e., I lose less hair than any NW1 person does.
Also, Rogaine causes vellous hair to turn permanent in the beard area of teens. I think someone also posted how applying minoxidil on one side of their body (hand?) made it hairier than the other side for years till he stopped applying it to the body part. I wish someone did this experiment!
I would guess that minoxidil would work on body hair indefinitely (no offset), even if it was "new" body hair that would otherwise not exist in terminal form.
i.e., I lose less hair than any NW1 person does.
Also, Rogaine causes vellous hair to turn permanent in the beard area of teens. I think someone also posted how applying minoxidil on one side of their body (hand?) made it hairier than the other side for years till he stopped applying it to the body part. I wish someone did this experiment!
I would guess that minoxidil would work on body hair indefinitely (no offset), even if it was "new" body hair that would otherwise not exist in terminal form.
haunted-ballroom
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tembo said:
Do you think that if you smeared minoxidil across the middle of your forhead each time you apply it, you could grow dense hair there?
I hope not! Not that ive been applying it there but I may be applying it lower than my hairline ever was before...
haunted-ballroom
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Artista said:
Oh!, okay, ill be a bit more careful where I apply it from now on. Is that hair very noticeable? If you didnt shave it and just let it grow I mean
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tembo said:
I take that with a grain or two of salt. There are too many variables involved to draw very many conclusions about daily hair "loss". I wish people would quit talking about it.
tembo said:
Of course! What makes you think that contradicts the "offset" theory in any way??
tembo said:
I don't understand what you're saying. minoxidil working on body hair indefinitely IS an "offset". What makes you think otherwise?? Please explain your thinking on this.
Bryan
haunted-ballroom said:
Oh!, okay, ill be a bit more careful where I apply it from now on. Is that hair very noticeable? If you didnt shave it and just let it grow I mean[/quote:bdb6a]Oh ya it is! I have dark hair, but even if it were blond, you would see it up close. I was suprised just how much grew there. I didn't apply minoxidil there but maybe a drop or less got there unintentionally.
Bryan, I mean that as long as you continue to apply minoxidil to an area of the body where there was vellous hair which turned terminal upon minoxidil application, it will remain a NW1 body hair area. i.e., body hair loss/body hair reverting to vellous won't occur. Even for someone whose hormones dictate zero body hair turning terminal, minoxidil will convert and keep the body hair terminal forever (or at least till old age).
So why should the scalp be any different? Why should baldness continue in a person who is meant to go bald if minoxidil is applied forever? Why won't minoxidil keep you at NW1 or NW2 on the scalp forever just like it would for body hair? Why just an offset when it does much more for body hair?
Again, the body hair lasting forever or till old age on minoxidil is my instinct if you didn't understand that.
Also, if no-one still knows for sure how minoxidil works, how do you come up with an offset theory?
So why should the scalp be any different? Why should baldness continue in a person who is meant to go bald if minoxidil is applied forever? Why won't minoxidil keep you at NW1 or NW2 on the scalp forever just like it would for body hair? Why just an offset when it does much more for body hair?
Again, the body hair lasting forever or till old age on minoxidil is my instinct if you didn't understand that.
Also, if no-one still knows for sure how minoxidil works, how do you come up with an offset theory?
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tembo said:
Because minoxidil doesn't interfere with the fundamental balding process. Scalp hair keeps right on balding, whether you apply minoxidil or not.
tembo said:
But it DOESN'T do much more for body hair, which is what I'm trying to tell you!
It does exactly the same thing to both scalp hair and body hair: it provides an "offset" of growth to both. The fact that scalp hair goes bald and body hair doesn't has nothing whatsoever to do with minoxidil.tembo said:
It's simply an empirical observation: once your hair has that initial spurt of regrowth from minoxidil, it starts to decline again at what appears to be about the same rate that it was declining before.
Bryan
But it does is what I am saying!
minoxidil cause scalp hair regrowth (stunning regrowth for some), but balding continues since minoxidil only gives an offset.
minoxidil causes body hair to turn terminal...but balding (or revertion to vellous) does NOT continue as long as you keep using minoxidil.
So why the difference in effect?
What if minoxidil gives you long body hair in places like the chest and you transplant it to the head (BHT)? Will this body hair remain terminal on the scalp forever as it would on the body?
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tembo said:
Exactly.
tembo said:
Are you asking me why body hair doesn't go bald? Nobody really knows yet all the biochemical details of why androgens stimulate body hair, but suppress scalp hair. But that's the reason that body hair doesn't slowly wither away over the years, like scalp hair.
tembo said:
Sure. That's how hair transplants work: you move androgen-resistant hair to the scalp, and it continues to grow just fine.
Bryan
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ALL hair grows because of minoxidil. It causes that "offset" of growth in all hair, as far as I know (not so sure about things like eyebrow hair, but I suspect that it's responsive to minoxidil, too).
Do you still not understand what I've been saying?
Bryan
Do you still not understand what I've been saying?
Bryan