Any programmers?

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

Anyone on here into programming? What languages / OS ?

 

[ali777]

Need help with the homework :woot: ? Fire away... I'll send you the answer in the morning

IBM is a programmer, Gemini X is software developer (I think), the guy that gets paid $50 an hour to design this forum is a programmer :whistle:. I guess I'm a programmer too, I'm actually an engineer. C/C++/Matlab are my tools.

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

You should use free software such as GNU Octave
or GSL rather than proprietary software like Matlab, whose restrictions impede on your freedom.

Also, these are all coded in C, so you might be able to do more with them. What kind of an engineer are you to be using Matlab?

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

ali777, also, why does your signature reference a "linux" machine? Don't you mean GNU/Linux machine?

 

[cuebald]

I think you've listened to a bit too much Stallman videos, mate (or should I say, "rms")

You've gotta admit though, check out that hair! no wonder he is such an influence on the Free software community!

 

[ali777]

I do have octave installed both on XP and Linux. I don't need MathWorks' version of Matlab.

I don't believe in "freedom". It's just an alternative marketing strategy, where the software is given away for free but the services cost money. Besides, most of the "free" stuff is annoyingly under documented. Sometimes it's more cost effective to use proprietary software.

If you had to go through every single line of a long code to understand how it works, you'd know what I mean by "under documented".

I use whatever I think is best for the given task....

 

[cuebald]

Free Software is documented a lot better than proprietry software imo.
IRC channels and Forums have answered my questions very well (they only badmouth idiots).
Paid support will always find some bullshit ("This is not part of your contract sir. You must pay extra for this support.")

Ever seen any code or manpages for any Windows apps?

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

I don't believe in "freedom". It's just an alternative marketing strategy, where the software is given away for free but the services cost money. Besides, most of the "free" stuff is annoyingly under documented. Sometimes it's more cost effective to use proprietary software.

"Free" software is free as in speech, not free as in beer. Proprietary software can be given away for no money, and free software can be sold for cash. Free software just means you have the right to use the software for whatever purpose you want, and are free to modify or share the program as you please.

But you are very correct about the lack of documentation. It's hell having to blindly go through 80 header files trying to grasp how a program works. To be fair though, proprietary software doesn't even give you access to the source, so it's apples and oranges.

 

[ali777]

ali777, also, why does your signature reference a "linux" machine? Don't you mean GNU/Linux machine?

Technically speaking yes.... When all the code installed on my PC is taken into account, there is more GNU in there than Linux. So, naming it as Linux is wrong....

However, "Linux" is a universally accepted name, and I go with the tradition.

I think you've listened to a bit too much Stallman videos, mate (or should I say, "rms")

Funny you should mention him. A friend of mine was talking about rms yesterday. He worked in the same building as him, and he was giving me some gossip...

I don't know the guy, but he's kind of a legend and talking about him is what geeks like us do....

I know I shouldn't be talking about people I don't know... That's why I'm not saying anything :whistle:

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

ali777, what kind of an engineer are you, and do you get to do interesting programming?

 

[ali777]

Free Software is documented a lot better than proprietry software imo.
IRC channels and Forums have answered my questions very well (they only badmouth idiots).
Paid support will always find some bullshit ("This is not part of your contract sir. You must pay extra for this support.")

Ever seen any code or manpages for any Windows apps?

That's only valid for "popular" packages. Try finding help for an obscure program that is "open source" but maintained by a company.

PS: yes.. try MSDN, I used to use it when I was using Visual Studio.

To be fair though, proprietary software doesn't even give you access to the source, so it's apples and oranges.

Ah yes.. the false economy of open source. Your boss thinks why pay for a product while it's available for free, or why develop something from scratch while another program can be modified....

It is apples and oranges... Freedom is great when it works, eg linux, gcc, etc. I'm just saying, freedom doesn't necessarily help in all the cases. Modifying code is notoriously difficult, and would be much easier to achieve with the help of the original developers (who are very likely to expect some sort of payment for their efforts).

You have to understand that "open source" is mostly about a cooperating community. Companies like IBM, Google, etc benefit from open source tools and in return they pump money into it. So, it is a community that cooperates and GETS PAID FOR ITS EFFORTS... There is a commercial model to it.

Besides, there is no freedom of speech. Big companies modify and use open source everyday, but they only release parts of the code that is not going to harm their financial income.

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

Ah yes.. the false economy of open source. Your boss thinks why pay for a product while it's available for free, or why develop something from scratch while another program can be modified....

Pointy haired bosses have probably been thinking stupid things long before FS...

You have to understand that "open source" is mostly about a cooperating community. Companies like IBM, Google, etc benefit from open source tools and in return they pump money into it. So, it is a community that cooperates and GETS PAID FOR ITS EFFORTS... There is a commercial model to it.

The VAST, VAST majority of FS developers do not make a dime off of it.

Besides, there is no freedom of speech. Big companies modify and use open source everyday, but they only release parts of the code that is not going to harm their financial income.

open source != free software

 

[ali777]

ali777, what kind of an engineer are you, and do you get to do interesting programming?

it's boring stuff... i'm doing OO D and P. I don't like software development, it's boring. I like maths and algorithms. I wanted to know more about software, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would.

 

[ali777]

You have to understand that "open source" is mostly about a cooperating community. Companies like IBM, Google, etc benefit from open source tools and in return they pump money into it. So, it is a community that cooperates and GETS PAID FOR ITS EFFORTS... There is a commercial model to it.

The VAST, VAST majority of FS developers do not make a dime off of it.

The VAST, VAST majority of FS developers do not produce code worth using...

For example, you said why don't I use octave. The original development of octave started in an academic environment, thus it was paid for by the American tax payer.

 

[barcafan]

I like programming (I'm probably going to get ripped on by saying this) in autoit http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml.

It isnt really programming per se, but my motto is i like to get sh*t DONE, and this wonderful language lets me get it done in a pretty efficient way if i put time into it.

I love automation

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

I like programming (I'm probably going to get ripped on by saying this) in autoit http://www.autoitscript.com/autoit3/index.shtml.

It isnt really programming per se, but my motto is i like to get sh*t DONE, and this wonderful language lets me get it done in a pretty efficient way if i put time into it.

I love automation

What are you trying to do? Tell me some little program you want, and I'll code it in C for you, with lots of comments. That will help you learn C, it is the lingua franca of programming languages.

If you know C, you are a programmer.

If you know Java, Python, Ruby, PHP, (and whatever other scripting garbage is popular), but not C, you are not a programmer.

 

[barcafan]

Well perhaps its just because i dont have any real 'love' for programming, i just find the path of least resistance for what im exploiting at the current moment. Autoit3 is it for me. I couldn't really tell you what program i need at the moment because its how i make my living

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

Well perhaps its just because i dont have any real 'love' for programming, i just find the path of least resistance for what im exploiting at the current moment. Autoit3 is it for me. I couldn't really tell you what program i need at the moment because its how i make my living

Okay. Well, if you need help with any small component that you'd be able to describe without giving me any clue what the overall objective is, PM me any time.

btw, I was just looking at some autoit3 code samples. It's more program-languagish than I would have thought (I was expecting something like VBA macros). I also see it support Regular Expressions. Are you good with those? They tend to provide the most "bang for buck" in terms of usefulness and time spent learning for people just looking for functionality. If you're not familiar with them, I recomend you at least get an idea of what they are. This site will give you an overview in about 3 minutes of reading:
http://www.regular-expressions.info/quickstart.html

If you do ever find you need more functionality, consider a programming language such as Python:
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/

You'd learn it fairly quickly, it's very accessible friendly to people who aren't "programmers", and just want to get the job done. There's also a lot of unix scripting languages such as AWK that I know pretty well, and they are awsome. But it appears you use Windows, so they wouldn't be much good. If you'd consider a Unix machine (or an Apple, based on a unix-like OS) you'll definitely want to look into those - would increase you productivity hugely.

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

The VAST, VAST majority of FS developers do not produce code worth using...

The VAST, VAST, VAST, VAST, VAST majority of proprietary developers do not produce code worth using...

For example, you said why don't I use octave. The original development of octave started in an academic environment, thus it was paid for by the American tax payer.

I don't understand this criticism. You are opposed to technology developed by institutions who receive government money, such as public universities? If so, then you should know the internet was paid for by the US tax payer, as it was developed by the army originally.

 

[GNUist (formerly FC)]

ali777, what kind of an engineer are you, and do you get to do interesting programming?

it's boring stuff... i'm doing OO D and P. I don't like software development, it's boring. I like maths and algorithms. I wanted to know more about software, but I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would.

I like math and algorithms too. What kind of math and what kind of algorithms?

You'll probably LOVE this website, if you're not already familiar with it:
http://projecteuler.net/