About Permanent Finasteride ED Effects & What's It Come To
- Thread starter Vigaku
- Start date
I think he's just trying to combat the sides but still wan't to be on finasteride.
I love that word "recovery"...would be better to know of recovery on a body's own is possible in my case, for whatever either 1.5 years or 2.16 years of finasteride has done, meaning I can't honestly say for sure if it caused anything. To anyone reading this would think there's no reason to worry then. Just quit the drug ASAP. To me it's a little different. The fact I don't know what this has caused and if it has caused anything brings my depression to an all-time low this year. :sobbing:
I love that word "recovery"...would be better to know of recovery on a body's own is possible in my case, for whatever either 1.5 years or 2.16 years of finasteride has done, meaning I can't honestly say for sure if it caused anything. To anyone reading this would think there's no reason to worry then. Just quit the drug ASAP. To me it's a little different. The fact I don't know what this has caused and if it has caused anything brings my depression to an all-time low this year. :sobbing:
If you are worried, take a blood test. If everything comes out fine, which I am sure it will, then stop worrying about this. You don't have any sides. You are obsessing about this and it's senseless. I can tell you from experience that obsessing about your sex drive is the worts thing you can do to your libido.Vigaku said:
True but I wouldn't say in the permanent sense. You can have depression for years and I highly doubt it will do what years of Propecia would.
I can do a blood test however:
1. I wouldn't be able to compare it to how it was prior to using finasteride, so this won't help me determine anything, besides if the current hormone levels are "normal", which brings me to my next point.
2. A lot of doctors out there will tell you ignorant things. They may say things are normal and so forth. I read this from a post someone made, but I guess this is my best shot either way. I will try to see if they have info of my bloodwork they took 2 years ago as well, but I doubt they'll have the information I want considering the bloodwork 2 years ago was not for measuring hormone levels, but this is worth a try too.
I can do a blood test however:
1. I wouldn't be able to compare it to how it was prior to using finasteride, so this won't help me determine anything, besides if the current hormone levels are "normal", which brings me to my next point.
2. A lot of doctors out there will tell you ignorant things. They may say things are normal and so forth. I read this from a post someone made, but I guess this is my best shot either way. I will try to see if they have info of my bloodwork they took 2 years ago as well, but I doubt they'll have the information I want considering the bloodwork 2 years ago was not for measuring hormone levels, but this is worth a try too.
Yes, sir. I've been able to manage the side effects since march this year, and I've almost recoverd while using the drug. Libido is a little tricky, but hopefully it will be solved with a little help from my Doctor. I need regular blood tests to see what's going on. The ED shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure it's because of atrophied penile muscles, but it's hard to deal with, when you've reduced libido as well. I want my hair, and I believe all the side effects from finasteride are managable and reversible. I sure as hell wasn't going to quit the drug, when I realised that being off, was no different from being on, after my hormones crashed.monty1978 said:
Are people trying to rule out the possiblity that over 2 years of Propecia may degrade my system further (or if nothing happened thus far, then degrade it at some point) if 18 months have done nothing so far?
Either way...I must quit. I don't really consider 18 months to be "the long-term"...I think long term as something like at least over 10 years or just your whole life...
Someone has also been saying going off the drug may make things worse. I understand not improving (though in my case I find it very unlikely I got sides AND won't improve from them after quitting, even if it takes a few years to recover) but worse? I understand hormones may be changed after quitting but I don't see how they would change in a bad way, especially since Propecia could only negatively alter them in the first place.
Either way...I must quit. I don't really consider 18 months to be "the long-term"...I think long term as something like at least over 10 years or just your whole life...
Someone has also been saying going off the drug may make things worse. I understand not improving (though in my case I find it very unlikely I got sides AND won't improve from them after quitting, even if it takes a few years to recover) but worse? I understand hormones may be changed after quitting but I don't see how they would change in a bad way, especially since Propecia could only negatively alter them in the first place.
No, all of it has its place. Andractim is mainly used to maintain penile tissue and combat gynecomastia. hGH is growth hormone, yes, and a part of the experimentation. My regimen isn't that expensive, but experimenting has cost me a lot over the past 8 months.
Good luck to Enden. I could never at this point continue a drug even Merck claims to not know the long-term affects of (after all I believe their studies show only what a 2 year regimen of Propecia does) and I have 2.16 years of taking the drug, 1.5 years if the first 8 months of what I was taking wasn't finasteride, which I will ask in another thread about if the one from 4rx was legit or not.
I understand someone feels that quitting Propecia does not undo its hormonal effects, though I believe it would take time - at least as long as one's been on the drug. As for me, it's already been a waste of money, and I feel that whatever Propecia has done, I could probably treat later on anyway if I don't feel like buying all kinds of drugs now to battle side effects, and the only ones I've noticed so far are, maybe a slight decrease in libido, what seems to be less thick semen and it shoots out a little less far, though I believe the watery part has to do with less sperm count which I can still honestly say I don't give a sh*t about, as I promised myself not to have children ever since 9 years ago. Semen going less distant would probably be that orgasms are less good, which concerns me. Thing is even if I was not on Propecia, I would have days where it goes far and doesn't. It all depends on how horny I am and obviously much other things, and this is why it was hard to determine if Propecia really did anything besides watery jizz, and hell I never really noticed it to be a problem.
Does someone believe not battling the side effects now (AFTER quitting the drug) would be worse than trying to fight it later? I find this hard to believe, considering now that one's off the drug, propecia can no longer be doing it's work, at least once it's completely out of your system.
I will leave it in nature's hand to undo any possible effects of propecia I'm not certain of, and supposing the statistics were right, there's almost no possible way that quitting the drug for years will not bring me back and definitely not make me worse as someone was claiming (wtf?).
I'm going to be trying a topical. Heard Nisim extract shampoo was clinically proven to work...anyone?
I understand someone feels that quitting Propecia does not undo its hormonal effects, though I believe it would take time - at least as long as one's been on the drug. As for me, it's already been a waste of money, and I feel that whatever Propecia has done, I could probably treat later on anyway if I don't feel like buying all kinds of drugs now to battle side effects, and the only ones I've noticed so far are, maybe a slight decrease in libido, what seems to be less thick semen and it shoots out a little less far, though I believe the watery part has to do with less sperm count which I can still honestly say I don't give a sh*t about, as I promised myself not to have children ever since 9 years ago. Semen going less distant would probably be that orgasms are less good, which concerns me. Thing is even if I was not on Propecia, I would have days where it goes far and doesn't. It all depends on how horny I am and obviously much other things, and this is why it was hard to determine if Propecia really did anything besides watery jizz, and hell I never really noticed it to be a problem.
Does someone believe not battling the side effects now (AFTER quitting the drug) would be worse than trying to fight it later? I find this hard to believe, considering now that one's off the drug, propecia can no longer be doing it's work, at least once it's completely out of your system.
I will leave it in nature's hand to undo any possible effects of propecia I'm not certain of, and supposing the statistics were right, there's almost no possible way that quitting the drug for years will not bring me back and definitely not make me worse as someone was claiming (wtf?).
I'm going to be trying a topical. Heard Nisim extract shampoo was clinically proven to work...anyone?
Reduced libido is most likely because of slightly elevated estrogen level. Your semen is watery because of DHT deficiency. Reduced ejaculation force could be because of slightly atrophied PC muscle, or it could be because of elevated prolactin level. Prolactin really messes with your sexual function. It messes with sexual arousal, which easily could make you lose erection suddently, the orgasm is less sensational, and the refractory period increases. Prolactin is upragulated by estrogen. So you could be affected when you've signs of DHT deficiency and elevated estrogen level. DHT counters estrogen btw.Vigaku said:
Doesn't testosterone also counter estrogen?
Either way I've never heard of this sh*t, but I don't see it's wrong. It seems to make sense.
I just never before looked at it that way or maybe I never noticed the importance of it. I've always thought any side effect from the drug would reverse in time after discontinuing, and plus, I had to be on a regimen before my custom replacement hair, because I know I couldn't be wearing that when I live with 4 family members who would be completely against it besides my mom, and it would be considerably hard putting up with it. I would be disliked and loathed by one, constantly bothered and pestered by another, and mainly questioned by the third person giving me all sorts of stupid and opinioniated lectured, so life would have to have them out first before I could wear one. The other reason would be that the more hair I have, the less obvious a custom hair would be unreal to people on the day I decide to put it on.
Anyway I'm off the drug and we'll see if just about everything (which isn't significant imo) is undone in a few years at most. I find it very hard to believe I'm not going back to normal.
I'm going to go back to my 2 times a week application of minoxidil. Not only do I already have experience with it, it's cheaper than my one other option which is another topical, revivogen, which isn't FDA approved despite revivogen's claim it's because their ingredients are all natural, and because unlike revivogen, it is a clear liquid that doesn't stain and isn't smelly or greasy. The reason for applying it twice a week is not only because it's a pain to apply (literally have to stand for about an hour trying to apply that to a scalp, splitting hairs with two combs, making like 10 rows and making sure the liquid goes down those rows otherwise there's no better way to get it to the scalp) but I also have to one, shower with shampoo before application, and after application the following morning because I know I can't go outside without having washed my hair of the dry minoxidil residue that is left behind. Minoxidil (and Rogaine) is only cosmetically appealing on a bald or almost bald head.
And hey, it's currently better than nothing. I have nothing else going for me since it's the only FDA approved treatment that doesn't affect me sexually. Transplants I know is a no, because I fear scarring. Wearing real looking hair is really my only final option after my temporary treatment most likely being minoxidil.
red fox > pink panther
vigaku > enden
xd
Either way I've never heard of this sh*t, but I don't see it's wrong. It seems to make sense.
I just never before looked at it that way or maybe I never noticed the importance of it. I've always thought any side effect from the drug would reverse in time after discontinuing, and plus, I had to be on a regimen before my custom replacement hair, because I know I couldn't be wearing that when I live with 4 family members who would be completely against it besides my mom, and it would be considerably hard putting up with it. I would be disliked and loathed by one, constantly bothered and pestered by another, and mainly questioned by the third person giving me all sorts of stupid and opinioniated lectured, so life would have to have them out first before I could wear one. The other reason would be that the more hair I have, the less obvious a custom hair would be unreal to people on the day I decide to put it on.
Anyway I'm off the drug and we'll see if just about everything (which isn't significant imo) is undone in a few years at most. I find it very hard to believe I'm not going back to normal.
I'm going to go back to my 2 times a week application of minoxidil. Not only do I already have experience with it, it's cheaper than my one other option which is another topical, revivogen, which isn't FDA approved despite revivogen's claim it's because their ingredients are all natural, and because unlike revivogen, it is a clear liquid that doesn't stain and isn't smelly or greasy. The reason for applying it twice a week is not only because it's a pain to apply (literally have to stand for about an hour trying to apply that to a scalp, splitting hairs with two combs, making like 10 rows and making sure the liquid goes down those rows otherwise there's no better way to get it to the scalp) but I also have to one, shower with shampoo before application, and after application the following morning because I know I can't go outside without having washed my hair of the dry minoxidil residue that is left behind. Minoxidil (and Rogaine) is only cosmetically appealing on a bald or almost bald head.
And hey, it's currently better than nothing. I have nothing else going for me since it's the only FDA approved treatment that doesn't affect me sexually. Transplants I know is a no, because I fear scarring. Wearing real looking hair is really my only final option after my temporary treatment most likely being minoxidil.
red fox > pink panther
vigaku > enden
xd
No, testosterone is converted to estrogen through an enzyme named aromatase. So, if you have problems with estrogen, supplying testosterone would make your situation hell of a lot worse. And your family... I think they're just messing with you. People can say very mean things, as a joke, without giving a though that it actually might hurt. Tell them how you feel, and I'm sure they never mention it again.Vigaku said:
I recommend you visit a doctor and check your hormone levels. Get a copy of the numbers, and get some more opinions. You shouldn't wait. As I said, hormones changes your body.
Yeah yesyes, apparently propecia can cause severe irreversable side effects that require a regimen like Enden's to undo, but for my case I hope you're right...
I will try to do the bloodwork today by the way, well at least I'll call Kaiser Permanente, the fuckers who gave me the drug (they forced injected it into my pubic area!). not really but still, felt like saying that.
Also, so aromatose does that I see...but isn't the 5 a enzyme going to convert that to DHT? does the aromatose become stronger while on finasteride? So is that why injecting testost is bad?
Besides weren't you saying earlier that the testes would have trouble producing test because of the effects of estrogen? Why would someone want that when the test will be converted to est by aromatose like you said?
As for my family members, no man...they're not joking or laughing. They think it's wrong, logically, morally, etc.
They know I'm not bald, and they don't see my situation bad enough to be wearing pieces.
What they don't understand is I don't want to have any noticeable hair loss before I start wearing pieces, for reasons I already explained.
as i said they're not gonna laugh. they're going to be a problem and they're going to see it as a very serious matter, and i know i can't live with that mess.
oh well, they drove me to trying the 2 fda approved treatments, except they have side effects. one has minor negligible ones, the other has driven people to suicide...then again, i bet the same number of people did the same througout the last few years for their baldness. i recall one dude on hairlosstalk forums (irish male i believe) with the stick figure avatar saying he was going to do it because he shed a lot one day. i don't blame him. Having male pattern baldness or ED BOTH sucking f*****g ***, but for me the latter is a #x worse, especially when a custom hair replacement, in my case, is even BETTER than propecia and minoxidil, even without side effects from either.
problem is if you're living with my douchebags, custom hair also has side effects. family feuds, which are irreversible only once stopping wearing or they leave. The next day I go out, and people are wondering how I went bald in one day, or if they're smart, will realize I've been wearing a piece for a long time. That's when my cover is destroyed and i have no way of hiding the truth again.
I will try to do the bloodwork today by the way, well at least I'll call Kaiser Permanente, the fuckers who gave me the drug (they forced injected it into my pubic area!). not really but still, felt like saying that.
Also, so aromatose does that I see...but isn't the 5 a enzyme going to convert that to DHT? does the aromatose become stronger while on finasteride? So is that why injecting testost is bad?
Besides weren't you saying earlier that the testes would have trouble producing test because of the effects of estrogen? Why would someone want that when the test will be converted to est by aromatose like you said?
As for my family members, no man...they're not joking or laughing. They think it's wrong, logically, morally, etc.
They know I'm not bald, and they don't see my situation bad enough to be wearing pieces.
What they don't understand is I don't want to have any noticeable hair loss before I start wearing pieces, for reasons I already explained.
as i said they're not gonna laugh. they're going to be a problem and they're going to see it as a very serious matter, and i know i can't live with that mess.
oh well, they drove me to trying the 2 fda approved treatments, except they have side effects. one has minor negligible ones, the other has driven people to suicide...then again, i bet the same number of people did the same througout the last few years for their baldness. i recall one dude on hairlosstalk forums (irish male i believe) with the stick figure avatar saying he was going to do it because he shed a lot one day. i don't blame him. Having male pattern baldness or ED BOTH sucking f*****g ***, but for me the latter is a #x worse, especially when a custom hair replacement, in my case, is even BETTER than propecia and minoxidil, even without side effects from either.
problem is if you're living with my douchebags, custom hair also has side effects. family feuds, which are irreversible only once stopping wearing or they leave. The next day I go out, and people are wondering how I went bald in one day, or if they're smart, will realize I've been wearing a piece for a long time. That's when my cover is destroyed and i have no way of hiding the truth again.
What? 5AR type 2 converting the aromatase enzyme to DHT? No. Both are enzymes converting hormones. The aromatase enzyme doesn't get stronger when you're using finasteride, but in some cases, there isn't enough DHT to counter the estrogen, which is converted by aromatase as regularly. Using exogenous testosterone without an aromatase inhibitor would therefore make the situation worse. With an AI drug, it's a different game. You would benefit from a normal T level, and still be able to keep estrogen under control.Vigaku said: