40 days No masturbation challenge!

[DarkDays]

I think you are reading into this wrongly. The liver doesn't regulate if you want to use the absolute meaning of the word, but it does affect serum levels. The kidneys(as an example) don't regulate your hormone levels, but they will make sure to process those in the blood so you can excrete them(fun fact: estrogen hormones, before science discovered a better alternative, were extracted from horse urine).

Your paper is also not discussing how the liver affects serum levels but whether hormones affect HCC in Cirrhosis whereas the article I posted discusses whether kidney diseases affect steroid levels or whether it is the inherent damage done to the kidney(disease or not). Considering that we are also dealing with two wildly different cultures in regards to food and behaviour it wouldn't surprise me they would appear differently. Although changing the diet in Japan has usually been much healthier than many other diets(damn shame that some of their super food like natto tastes like devil's sh*t).

But hey, I know you are just in this to argue so I really don't care. I just wanted to post the original reply to show what can be done with google. I am not in this to be on some bullying crusade like some.

So carry on.

 

[Rogazzle]

^^^ My original counter post was to show cause-and-effect isn't nearly as clear cut as it seems, and both results aren't mutually exclusive.

RESULT for the 1st study (your post): Mean serum estradiol levels were significantly higher among HCC patients.

RESULT for the 2nd study (my post): These results indicate that elevated serum testosterone, together with decreased serum estrogens, may promote the development of HCC in cirrhosis.

Notice a common denominator here?

Also, where in that paper did it ever make a reference to a western diet?

"...study of 46 Japanese male patients with liver cirrhosis predominantly of hepatitis C virus origin (76%). Serum samples were collected between December 1985 and December 1987, and the patients were completely followed until the end of 1995 for an average of 5.1 years."

Controls where set and changes where measured in an obviously all Japanese study, so a western diet or western genetics are completely irrelevant to that study, or this little argument.

 

[jh]

As much as Hoppi's blind exuberance annoys me, I have to say that those who are saying the liver doesn't affect hormones are equally as lazy at finding papers as he is.

Seriously, it took me less than a minute to find one paper about hormones and damaged livers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11408804

and a quote from the conclusion:

Changes in sex steroid levels among patients with liver damage are due to the liver damage per se and not to specific disease processes.

So those saying that the liver has nothing to do with hormones I hope you are satisfied although I doubt it. You all want "your team" to win, whether it is miconazole, finasteride or the liver, instead of just pooling resources and combining the various stuff out there.

I don't know if you're referring to me or not. In another thread I asked Hoppi to provide evidence of the "proven medical science" that shows that an increase in toxins in your body "WILL make your liver struggle and therefore you WILL have surplus hormones (androgens and otherwise)."

I've looked and all I've found are a bunch of naturopath webpages that try to sell me something, but no medical science.

Although the abstract mentions cancer damaged livers (and NOT livers damaged by the factors that Hoppi is on about) do affect hormone levels, the extensive liver damage did not lead to "surplus hormones":

"Mean serum testosterone levels were significantly lower among HCC patients as well as among patients with MLC compared to controls."

I think it's all well and good that people kick around various theories, but I don't understand Hoppi's posts that complain that no one here uses "raw logic" and won't engage in "constructive conversation" but when asked to show us some evidence of this "proven medical science" he can't be bothered.

 

[OverMachoGrande]

To be honest, the mods here on HairLossTalk.com have been extremely quiet of late, at least in this section (which is the only one I really post in). Things seem to be holding together though! lol ^^

Trust me, we are here.

 

[jh]

The liver REMOVES hormones. If it's underperforming or struggling in any way then fewer hormones will be removed, won't they?

Ummm....

The abstract posted by DarkDays stated that subjects with cancer damaged livers had significantly lower serum levels of testosterone.

In fairness, estradiol was higher, SHBG was unchanged.

 

[Rogazzle]

The liver REMOVES hormones. If it's underperforming or struggling in any way then fewer hormones will be removed, won't they?

Ummm....

The abstract posted by DarkDays stated that subjects with cancer damaged livers had significantly lower serum levels of testosterone.

In fairness, estradiol was higher, SHBG was unchanged.

^^^
Exactly ... "Correlation does not imply causation."

 

[Hoppi]

To be honest, the mods here on HairLossTalk.com have been extremely quiet of late, at least in this section (which is the only one I really post in). Things seem to be holding together though! lol ^^

Trust me, we are here.

evidently! Good to see you man =D Maybe it's just because I'm pretty much always in Experimental Treatments these days, it's like a bubble in here lol

 

[OverMachoGrande]

To be honest, the mods here on HairLossTalk.com have been extremely quiet of late, at least in this section (which is the only one I really post in). Things seem to be holding together though! lol ^^

Trust me, we are here.

evidently! Good to see you man =D Maybe it's just because I'm pretty much always in Experimental Treatments these days, it's like a bubble in here lol

Good to see you are still posting here brother.

 

[Hoppi]

Good to see you are still posting here brother.

Always! To be honest, weird as it sounds, I always come back here to touch base. This place is like the heart of the community as far as I can tell, so it's the place where all info and research and new stuff is always shared! It's cool


And I wonder how people are doing on this "challenge" atm! This has to be one of the more unusual threads on here!

To be brutally honest, I would EXPECT only a small minority to achieve significant results from this. But.. I dunno, I'll read more and see how people get on

 

[Mjotter]

To everyone doing this challenge, I'm sorry but I'm gonna make you go through the pain I'm enduring right now.

 

[thylax]

what about ejaculating during sleep? does this count?

 

[Ende]

To everyone doing this challenge, I'm sorry but I'm gonna make you go through the pain I'm enduring right now.

LOL! suddenly half of the people in this thread are looking for alternative treatments Join the RU experiment, folks.

 

[Ende]

Before treatment with Propecia, I wouldn't even have lasted a couple of days.

 

[thylax]

I just broke the deal... :dunno:

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

 

[krow6486]

i wanted to stop monkeying for a long time now. glad i found this. im gonna be pissed off, iritated and f***ing depressed, but im willing to fight it out. keep up the good work! (to those who are still in)

no.more.p**rn

p.s. there are more benefits in not rubbing it out than just saving your hair

 

[Ende]

Like what?

 

[Rabid]

p.s. there are more benefits in not rubbing it out than just saving your hair

Like what?

Yeah really?

So you dudes are believers now??

 

[Rabid]

So you dudes are believers now??

Hell no!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Mjotter]

Other benefits I've experienced so far is definitely increased energy. Probably because of all the built up sexual tension.

 

[Rabid]

Don't forget about increased wet dreams. Those are convenient. :woot: