3-alpha-HSD treatment (interesting)

Pray The Bald Away

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DHT doesn't make follicles sit in a telogen phase. Androgenetic Alopecia essentially reduces the number of DP cells in a follicle which reflects the thickness of a hair... more DPs, thicker hair. DHT alone isn't responsible for follicle miniaturization anyway.
I'm not sure what part of what I said is inaccurate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16931898
The absence of DHT does nothing to pull hairs out of their permanent arrest in Telogen. DHT causes dp apoptosis and early induction of the catagen phase. Inhibition will just prevent further damage to hair. It's like watering a tree trunk; the damage is done.
 

stressftw

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What does it mean about isotretinoin? The disregulation means it is a permanent male pattern baldness trigger or a reversible Telogen Effluvium hair loss?
 

abcdefg

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How do we make practical use of this? All the chemistry and biology goes over my head.
 

RatherGoBlindThanSeeItGo

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I'm not sure what part of what I said is inaccurate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16931898
The absence of DHT does nothing to pull hairs out of their permanent arrest in Telogen. DHT causes dp apoptosis and early induction of the catagen phase. Inhibition will just prevent further damage to hair. It's like watering a tree trunk; the damage is done.

Isn't that what minoxidil is for? Kicking the hairs back into anagen and making them healthier again?
 

abcdefg

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Isn't that what minoxidil is for? Kicking the hairs back into anagen and making them healthier again?

minoxidil is a completely different mechanism of action. Yes it might start some hairs growing again, but all those androgens that all men have will continue the process. All hair is susceptible it just says it takes higher androgen stimulus for nonbalding scalp regions DPC cells to get hit with cell death. I like how it says both T and DHT instead of just mentioning DHT.
The point of this thread is safer way to stop androgens by adding this enzyme verses removing 5-ar 2. As usual nothing will probably ever come of it even though it might very well work
 

IvanXproject

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Is there any way we can introduce the 3a HSD enzyme to our scalp? I think this has some potential, and it would probably be without side effects.
 

abcdefg

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I agree this has plenty of potential, but the big issue is you need a big pharma to replicate this enzyme to continually do this. Otherwise it doesnt seem worth it. I dont doubt it might work, but there are an awful lot of little details going from this theory into actual practical results.
IMO other avenues like s-equol, buying CB or something like that are better easier ways than trying to replicate some enzyme

"All the pharmaceuticals know about 3a hsd and the natural DHT eliminating property it has. But then again, replicating an enzyme is something only the very top pharmaceuticals can do and they wouldn't want to lose such a steady stream of revenue"
 

Bushi

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I'm not sure what part of what I said is inaccurate.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16931898
The absence of DHT does nothing to pull hairs out of their permanent arrest in Telogen. DHT causes dp apoptosis and early induction of the catagen phase. Inhibition will just prevent further damage to hair. It's like watering a tree trunk; the damage is done.

There is a new tree growing out of a tree trunk in my front garden. ;)
 

WangMQ

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it does not seem too difficult to introduce enzymes to the scalp (no chance of rejection if enzymes developed are taken from your own body), and virtually no chance of mutation (cancer).
Am I the only one who feel this is naive thinking (without any solid evidence at hand though)?

3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3α-HSD), also known as aldo-keto reductase family 1 member C4, is an enzyme that in humans is encoded by the AKR1C4 gene.[1][2] It is known to be necessary for the synthesis of the endogenous neurosteroids allopregnanolone, THDOC, and 3α-androstanediol.

Seriously, introducing/upregulating an enzyme FROM your body can be dangerous too. We'd need countless studies and trials to prove its safety. Anything that could possibly break our body's homeostasis is potentially dangerous. Of course if we could localize the effects to the scalp it won't be a problem but again if we indeed have that miraculous drug delivery method we already have tens of drugs to kick male pattern baldness in the *** without side effects! :)
 

Dennis Garber

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Broccoli?

Can someone please explain this to me as if Im five? Whats all the talk about broccoli? I hate it, but i will even have sex with it if it does something for my hair loss!

As you chew uncooked broccoli or broccoli sprouts (which has much more sulforaphane) , it releases sulforaphane, which is converted by a specific intestinal bacteria for a very specific conversion rate of bioavailabilty per individual. Turns out, of the green vegetables, only broccoli, (and a handful of exotic stuff in other lands) has a fairly proven cancer prevention. It also turns out the active enzyme concentrates in the bladder before excretion. This means, if any truth, sulforaphane, should be best prevention for bladder and prostate. Indeed, psa levels seem to drop something like 40 to 70 percent.

My only knowledge is 4 hours of audio interviews with scientists, like John Hopkins, who have extensively studied this for decades.

Saw palmetto has never had noticeable effect for me. I will keep my eyes peeled for a soft gel.

Btw, what is best natural 5a hsd enhancer, and dht inhibitor?
 

Trichosan

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As you chew uncooked broccoli or broccoli sprouts (which has much more sulforaphane) , it releases sulforaphane, which is converted by a specific intestinal bacteria for a very specific conversion rate of bioavailabilty per individual. Turns out, of the green vegetables, only broccoli, (and a handful of exotic stuff in other lands) has a fairly proven cancer prevention. It also turns out the active enzyme concentrates in the bladder before excretion. This means, if any truth, sulforaphane, should be best prevention for bladder and prostate. Indeed, psa levels seem to drop something like 40 to 70 percent.

My only knowledge is 4 hours of audio interviews with scientists, like John Hopkins, who have extensively studied this for decades.

Saw palmetto has never had noticeable effect for me. I will keep my eyes peeled for a soft gel.

Btw, what is best natural 5a hsd enhancer, and dht inhibitor?

Re: Saw palmetto, I looked into various products extensively not long ago and found Drs. Best and that from Saw Pametto Harvest Company were rated highest for consistent purity and extract standardization quantity. Like most nutritional supplements, they may be benefiting you but there are no effects that slap you in the face like other things such as finasteride, niacin, weed, heroin, etc.
 

Dennis Garber

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Re: Saw palmetto, I looked into various products extensively not long ago and found Drs. Best and that from Saw Pametto Harvest Company were rated highest for consistent purity and extract standardization quantity. Like most nutritional supplements, they may be benefiting you but there are no effects that slap you in the face like other things such as finasteride, niacin, weed, heroin, etc.


How is Niacin a kick in the face? I tried b complex in 80s as a caffeine replacement, but placebo. Started taking it in 2011, as a protective against future senior dementia that is 6 decades from now. The b complex has Niacin, follic, etc. No hair gain, only thinning over period of use. I even added it to topical rogain, with saw and zinc, with no success that is apparent.

I don't particularly see memory improvement taking b complex. My brain is too good at filtering out the white noise. So, I am better than most at seeing things other brighter minds miss, as they get bogged down by details and obfuscation. So, trivia isn't my game, though I may have 60 hours on topic, understand underlying causes: still my 16 year old daughter with 3 minute exposure, better remember the names and places, while totally missing the meaning and take away. Yet, taking B complex, there are times I surprise myself and can retrieve some name or date, that I would normally class as a random string of letters associated with a meaningful individual whom I would always remember.
 
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