19 months on finasteride/9 months dutasteride combination and still losing ground. Is testosterone the culprit?

[loner67]

Sorry about my non professional answers, but I didn't expect this topic to blow up after so many months.Gotta take some time to digest all the posts here haha

 

[losingbattle88]

Still losing ground unfortunately. I still have that crawling itch, and it's not only on my scalp, but sometimes other parts of the body. What's worrying me is that I know that if I don't get rid of this itch then I will still lose ground.

I've thought about reflex hyperandrogenicity as a possible issue since late August 2019(when I quit Proscar for 4 months just to reuse it after). I've wrote in my older topic about this. However, I'm not quite sure yet if this is the main issue. I've read a lot on these forums and to be honest I don't know what to believe anymore, everyone has a different story. I know for a fact that propecia/duta have slowed my hair loss, but ever since the summer of 2020 I got this crazy itch on my scalp, even donor areas and I'm shedding more than normal.

I base my theory about test also being the culprit after closely following Derrick's channel. I'm not sure if you're familiar about this video:

He said that he was blocking his DHT with Duta to almost non-existent levels and yet he was still losing hair. He claims that RU fixed his problem while also switching back to finasteride. I don't know how much is true about RU though, but it's one of the remaining solutions. I don't want to use oral minoxidil since I've heard about its heart related risks, I'm having heart palpitations sometimes so I wouldn't risk it.


It could be a cause.


I already dropped finasteride for now. I've been experting with dutasteride for the last 7 months but I'm still losing ground. I used it once a week for about 3 months. If I remember correctly my itching was subsised a bit. I then upgraded to twice a week since I was still losing some hairs every other day. But I'm not sure if I made the right decision. I don't want to take it everyday since I've heard that 2 times should be sufficient given its half life. I'm already having side effects and not happy.

Half life of it is complicated but ye i take 2mg now 3 Times weekly to save money and My liver. Duta aint no miracle at all. If My regiment fail im done.

 

[losingbattle88]

Still losing ground unfortunately. I still have that crawling itch, and it's not only on my scalp, but sometimes other parts of the body. What's worrying me is that I know that if I don't get rid of this itch then I will still lose ground.

I've thought about reflex hyperandrogenicity as a possible issue since late August 2019(when I quit Proscar for 4 months just to reuse it after). I've wrote in my older topic about this. However, I'm not quite sure yet if this is the main issue. I've read a lot on these forums and to be honest I don't know what to believe anymore, everyone has a different story. I know for a fact that propecia/duta have slowed my hair loss, but ever since the summer of 2020 I got this crazy itch on my scalp, even donor areas and I'm shedding more than normal.

I base my theory about test also being the culprit after closely following Derrick's channel. I'm not sure if you're familiar about this video:

He said that he was blocking his DHT with Duta to almost non-existent levels and yet he was still losing hair. He claims that RU fixed his problem while also switching back to finasteride. I don't know how much is true about RU though, but it's one of the remaining solutions. I don't want to use oral minoxidil since I've heard about its heart related risks, I'm having heart palpitations sometimes so I wouldn't risk it.


It could be a cause.


I already dropped finasteride for now. I've been experting with dutasteride for the last 7 months but I'm still losing ground. I used it once a week for about 3 months. If I remember correctly my itching was subsised a bit. I then upgraded to twice a week since I was still losing some hairs every other day. But I'm not sure if I made the right decision. I don't want to take it everyday since I've heard that 2 times should be sufficient given its half life. I'm already having side effects and not happy.

Your Side effects are temporary btw dont worry.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Like Bryan, I believe in the AR upregulation theory. I used to believe that testosterone could cause hair loss too, but after re-evaluating things it seems that it does not take much scalp DHT to cause miniaturization, particularly if the receptors become very sensitive. This is why men can have low testosterone and still lose hair. DHT has a much different impact on the cell than testosterone, and that is why DHT can blow up a prostate while testosterone itself does not.

 

[losingbattle88]

Like Bryan, I believe in the AR upregulation theory. I used to believe that testosterone could cause hair loss too, but after re-evaluating things it seems that it does not take much scalp DHT to cause miniaturization, particularly if the receptors become very sensitive. This is why men can have low testosterone and still lose hair. DHT has a much different impact on the cell than testosterone, and that is why DHT can blow up a prostate while testosterone itself does not.

Well said slaphead.

 

[loner67]

Like Bryan, I believe in the AR upregulation theory. I used to believe that testosterone could cause hair loss too, but after re-evaluating things it seems that it does not take much scalp DHT to cause miniaturization, particularly if the receptors become very sensitive. This is why men can have low testosterone and still lose hair. DHT has a much different impact on the cell than testosterone, and that is why DHT can blow up a prostate while testosterone itself does not.

What do you mean by re-evaluating things? Did you do any experiments on yourself and got your blood tested?

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

What do you mean by re-evaluating things? Did you do any experiments on yourself and got your blood tested?

Just changed my opinion based on more research. Everyone should keep in mind anything regarding RH is technically a theory as we don't have studies that have looked into it specifically.

 

[loner67]

Just changed my opinion based on more research. Everyone should keep in mind anything regarding RH is technically a theory as we don't have studies that have looked into it specifically.

Alright. So what do you suggest? Should I try RU and use finasteride instead of avodart?

 

[DoctorHouse]

Like Bryan, I believe in the AR upregulation theory. I used to believe that testosterone could cause hair loss too, but after re-evaluating things it seems that it does not take much scalp DHT to cause miniaturization, particularly if the receptors become very sensitive. This is why men can have low testosterone and still lose hair. DHT has a much different impact on the cell than testosterone, and that is why DHT can blow up a prostate while testosterone itself does not.

Exactly why you see so many men balding or thinning when they hit 40 after having what looks like a full head of hair. I really believe your sensitivity increases as you age but there are some unicorns that just don't have the enzyme to convert to DHT or they have follicles that are not as sensitive to DHT as much as their peers. Genetics will dictate the outcome. Finasteride can only slow the process down.

 

[Mr. Slap Head]

Alright. So what do you suggest? Should I try RU and use finasteride instead of avodart?

I think that is a good idea

 

[Jacoby77]

I understand trying out dutasteride in your situation since DHT is still high. However, keep in mind that androgens are also produced from the adrenal glands and it appears that some people just don't respond to 5AR inhibitors. A couple months in on dutasteride you should get bloods done again to see what it is doing.

RU should be helpful but it has a lot of drawbacks. Expensive, and must be applied twice daily for optimal results. I mean, if you have the cash and don't mind the inconvenience then go for it. Personally I would experiment with topical bicalutamide if I were you. It has a long half life and so you save a lot of money, it only needs applied once or twice a week and the dose can be adjusted easily. Fluridil and spironolactone are not strong enough to hold ground if you are losing ground IMO.

Could you inform me on what this post is about, I'm so confused, is finasteride causing more hair loss in his hair somehow? Is his hair in a shock phase due to the finasteride?

 

[losingbattle88]

Could you inform me on what this post is about, I'm so confused, is finasteride causing more hair loss in his hair somehow? Is his hair in a shock phase due to the finasteride?

No he just dont want to give dutasteride enough time to work. And he dont use it often enough or a high dose.

 

[loner67]

It's been three weeks since I last posted. I'm still getting crazy itching all over, including donor area that's deemed to be safe. Would any blood test be useful?

 

[Jonah]

It's been three weeks since I last posted. I'm still getting crazy itching all over, including donor area that's deemed to be safe. Would any blood test be useful?

I doubt bloodwork would show anything just for an itch. The itching may be upregulated androgen receptors.

Getting labwork may be a good idea just in case. The typical labs to check for a hormone altering drug are (for starters):

Total and free test
Dht
Estradiol

 

[loner67]

What about prolactin, cortisol? I've found a list of useful tests here before but I can't find it.
I'm really going through a low phase in my life and I'm sad that the treatment isn't stopping my hairloss. Would RU58841 really be the holy grail that would stop my hairloss, given that I'm already on 2 avodart per week and still losing ground? I'm honestly skeptical about it since I've read mixed stories here, but more unsuccesful ones tbh

 

[losingbattle88]

What about prolactin, cortisol? I've found a list of useful tests here before but I can't find it.
I'm really going through a low phase in my life and I'm sad that the treatment isn't stopping my hairloss. Would RU58841 really be the holy grail that would stop my hairloss, given that I'm already on 2 avodart per week and still losing ground? I'm honestly skeptical about it since I've read mixed stories here, but more unsuccesful ones tbh

Quit finasteride and go solo dutasteride. And add oral minoxidill.

 

[loner67]

Quit finasteride and go solo dutasteride. And add oral minoxidill.

I already gave up on finasteride, I don't know if my message was clear. I'm still losing ground on avodart alone and I don't want to use oral minoxidil as my heart is not the best. I personally think oral minoxidil is risky for many people.

I'm debating whether staying on avodart is good, since it seems like my sides are thinning aswell. I was losing ground on proscar and I thought that I'm not inhibiting enough DHT.

 

[Jonah]

What about prolactin, cortisol? I've found a list of useful tests here before but I can't find it.
I'm really going through a low phase in my life and I'm sad that the treatment isn't stopping my hairloss. Would RU58841 really be the holy grail that would stop my hairloss, given that I'm already on 2 avodart per week and still losing ground? I'm honestly skeptical about it since I've read mixed stories here, but more unsuccesful ones tbh

How is your Libido? Do you have increased scalp/forhead sebum?

 

[loner67]

My libido is through the roof some days, to a point that it became annoying. My scalp gets oily and my hair looks like crap(starts to curl)if I don't wash it every 2-3 days. My semen is usually watery/dead as compared to when I wasn't on medication. I'm also getting oily forehead and constant acne every couple of weeks I'd say...

 

[losingbattle88]

My libido is through the roof some days, to a point that it became annoying. My scalp gets oily and my hair looks like crap(starts to curl)if I don't wash it every 2-3 days. My semen is usually watery/dead as compared to when I wasn't on medication. I'm also getting oily forehead and constant acne every couple of weeks I'd say...

That doesnt sound good. I have none of your symptoms. And my sperm is as thick as it was before dutasteride.