11 Months on finasteride 1mg, situation worse than ever.

Kirby

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OK, my story...
* noticed hairloss last October. At first I believed it was damage from regular hair straightening!
* I am a diffuse, all-over thinner. I have been told that I have NW2 hairline (I think much nearer NW3 myself).
* started finasteride 1mg (branded Propecia) in January (see sig for exact date).
* didn't add any other treatments, mainstream or experimental, and won't without knowing for sure that finasteride works first. I have the intention to, but need to know whether finasteride works for me first, as the foundation stone of a good regimen.
* shed hair DRASTICALLY in the second half of January. The difference was enormous. My girlfriend, who'd denied that I had hairloss, began to agree with me after the shedding!
* never regrew any of the early shed-loss hair, even at this point. However, my hairloss stabilised completely, the scalp itch I had disappeared, so did the severe dandruff.
* when all the way to London to a hairloss clinic, and was squinted at across a desk by a non-doctor, who gave me no straight answers. On reflection, they saw I wasn't a potential hair transplant patient, so weren't bothered.
* started another shedding phase at the end of September. I still have hair falling out, on the pillow each morning, when I wash my hair. Hair has much worse density than when I started finasteride.

That's my story brought up to date for now. I'm ****ing terrified. Baseline hair quantities + extra thickening and growth would be acceptable to me, and that's what I assumed would happen.

I'm going to hijack part of someone else's thread now, to work through some of the se possible 'secondary factors'.
1. Stress (or more specifically excessive cortisol release) can result in more hair loss - "Our conclusion is that meditation was important for patients to reduce their stress levels and, consequently, to achieve better results in their androgenetic alopecia treatments (Ademir Carvalho Leite Júnior, 2011)". yoga, cognitive behaviour therapy and any other activity that reduces stress will be just as good as meditation.

2. Diet - "These data suggest that oxidative stress may exacerbate the onset of androgenic alopecia by affecting TGF-β secretion, a known inhibitor of hair follicle growth and inducer of catagen (Jamie Upton et al, 2011). just eating vegetables should be enough.

3. Minoxidil 1ml twice daily has been shown to increase hair

4. some people appear to respond well to less clinically documented hair loss treatments like shampoo Nizoral (Ketoconazole) twice weekly, topical spironolactone once daily and Bimatoprost once daily.

5. your hair loss may be linked to some other health issue. Do you have any other medical problems like - asthma, allergies, skin problems, fungal infections, thyroid problem, vitamin deficiency eta?

1. Stress may be implicated in my loss, yes. I take Lorazepam for anxiety, have bad anxiety attacks, have no social life because of stress/anxiety issues. I have no idea if somehow stress control can make finasteride 'kick in' for me ... It's all rather cyclical, incidentally, as the worsening hairloss situation is causing me a great deal of stress.

2. My diet could be better, but isn't bad... I don't drink alcohol or eat much if any fried food, for example. My diet is gluten-free (to control IBS), alcohol-free, free of legumes and nuts (also to control IBS).

3. Not going to touch minoxidil unless I can see finasteride causing some positive effects, and then only very reluctantly.

4. I used Nizoral (last November until this October), replaced by BiovaxMed containing ciclopirox olamine. Am open to using more minor/adjunct treatments.

5. I have asthma, allergies, as well as rhinitis and IBS. No idea about thyroid issues. I am definitely not iron deficient, had that tested recently. I have had long-running fungal infections on my hands and feet as a teenager, mostly my hands, which scarred my hands up. Don't think I have a fungal infection on my scalp, as I have been using some form of anti-fungal shampoo for nearly a whole year now.
 

Silverfox1

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It's all speculation but you may have lost the hair that you did anyway and not because of the finasteride.

In my limited experience I would say the most likely reason for hairloss is having the male pattern baldness gene. Arguably the 2nd most common reason is a Thyroid problem. It's definitely worth having a blood test just to rule it out.
 

DoctorHouse

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Kirby I feel your frustration as after I took Propecia my hair changed dramatically. However, I too had stress/anxiety from my hair situation and stomach issues. Still have stomach issues. You need to somehow get the HairDX test to see if you have the gene for balding. If you can't find it in your country, then find someone who can do it for you. All it takes is swabbing from your mouth. I am sure you can get a doctor to do it. I got my family doctor to do it and he never did the test for any of his patients. I gave him the info and he did it special for me. He then told me to stay on Propecia because the test concluded I have the gene. If you don't have the gene for balding, then your hair loss could be stress induced and maybe the Propecia is not necessary. I refused to take a pill like Propecia until I had proof I had any potential to go bald. I was at your stage when I decided to take the test. I was frustrated because I thought I was making my hair worse by taking Propecia. For peace of mind, you need to do something. Forum members here can only give you speculation but the right doctor can give you more concrete information to help you. You just need to find the right doctor so do your research. Even if you have to fly somewhere its worth it for peace of mind.
 

Kirby

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Yes Silverfox, maybe the hair might've fallen out anyway, BUT I did get to 30 with a NW2-ish in reasonable shape, AND the hair loss was considerably fast in my initial shedding phase, much faster than my 'regular' rate of hairloss, which wasn't fast at all. I'm not a rapidly balding teenager, and didn't notice the loss until a year ago. What else could it be apart from 'shed loss'?

I'll get a blood test for thyroid issues, or at least ask my GP for one.
 

Silverfox1

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Do you have any other Thyroid symptoms like being tired all the time? You may well be right in that the finasteride has accelrated the hairloss, I guess I would think the same. I'm relatively new to finasteride and like most, I hope to not lose any more hair and have some regrowth.

It can take time, 2 years for some to see results, but the reality is for many it will not work.

I had a full head of hair at 30 but it was thinning at the crown and must have been over several years. As each year has gone by, I have lost more hair in the crown and now have a bald spot but with a reasonable hairline. Once I saw the bald spot, I thought I was losing hair very quickly but it has gradually happened over several years, just I din't pay much attention to it until I saw scalp.
 

antman

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i'm not sure what you can do - it may or may not be a shed due to finasteride - some people don't have regrowth until 18 months.

in answer to everything else -
-To be honest i'm pretty sure Androgenetic Alopecia is mostly genetic - unless u r a heavy smoker/drinker or had trauma - its unlikely that u'll c a cosmetic difference. diet and lifestyle may have the potential, from the evidence i've seen so far, to slightly slow down Androgenetic Alopecia.

i mention them because think it is worth making positive lifestyle changes if your going on a drug long term - if lifestyle change is needed.

-my father didn't notice hair loss until he was 28 and was NW6 by 34. so it can happen quickly, even when u r older.

-there isn't much clinical evidence that anything apart from finasteride, min and anti-androgens are effective for hair loss - but there are a lot of isolated cases that suggest that there is a potential that something could be effective for you. its just a matter of trying it.
 

Kirby

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Kirby I feel your frustration as after I took Propecia my hair changed dramatically. However, I too had stress/anxiety from my hair situation and stomach issues. Still have stomach issues. You need to somehow get the HairDX test to see if you have the gene for balding. If you can't find it in your country, then find someone who can do it for you. All it takes is swabbing from your mouth. I am sure you can get a doctor to do it. I got my family doctor to do it and he never did the test for any of his patients.
Ah, that's an idea to look into, thanks. Unfortunately, no regular GP will never do such a test here in the UK - absolutely no male pattern baldness treatments are available on the NHS, so I'll have to see if the private sector can help. I'm prepared, unfortunately, for not being able to afford the test if it is available. (We have a very comprehensive and very free health system in Britain, but anything to do with male pattern baldness it doesn't cover - finasteride is the only medication I've ever paid for! Getting thyroid and other diagnostic blood tests will be no problem though.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you have any other Thyroid symptoms like being tired all the time? You may well be right in that the finasteride has accelrated the hairloss, I guess I would think the same. I'm relatively new to finasteride and like most, I hope to not lose any more hair and have some regrowth.
I kind realised that finasteride might just be maintenance only, but I'm worse than baseline in appearance due to shedding. Baseline + a bit better would be a 'result' for me, but I'm nowhere near that.

Thyroid? Just looked up the NHS website on underactive thyroid. (NB I'm not saying any of these are necessarily due to thyroid issues in my case.)

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Thyroid-under-active/Pages/Symptoms.aspx
Of these, I notice in varying degrees: "sensitivity to the cold" (not overall, but I have near-permanently numb/cold hands and feet), "depression", "muscle cramps" (in my case on lower legs and feet), "dry and scaly skin' (on my forehead, mostly - been worse on finasteride, I'm less oily), and "brittle hair" (might be from Nizoral though).

Now for overactive thyroid.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/thyroid-over-active/pages/symptoms.aspx
Of the symptoms listed, "mood swings such as anxiety, irritability and nervousness", "difficulty sleeping", "muscle weakness", "sensitivity to heat and excess sweating" all sound familiar, and worse in my case than any of those listed for underactive thyroid.

- - - Updated - - -

i'm not sure what you can do - it may or may not be a shed due to finasteride - some people don't have regrowth until 18 months.
Very true about the 18 months issue - I've read about half a dozen or so anecdotes on here about individuals having a long wait before any visible results on finasteride. That would drive me totally mental, unfortunately. :(

I'm not sure what else to do apart from the 'standard' meds. It's more I need the certainty whether finasteride works for me. I have the good signs (lack of itching, less worse dandruff, stabilised hairloss completely between the shedding phases) and negative signs (still no regrowth of hair shed in first month, second prolonged shedding phase, recent return of dandruff, visibly worse density than baseline).

FWIW, my own dad is 59 y.o. and a NW3. Doubt that indicates anything though.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW I realise than I almost certainly have male pattern baldness, but I'm near-absolute certain that I have a 'secondary factor' in there too.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for listening/replying, guys.
 

Quantum Cat

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I have hypothyroidism and take meds for it, but I never thought to get the male pattern baldness test done ( I didn't even know you could). to me it seemed pretty obvious it was male pattern baldness - receding temples, thinning at the crown, so I decided to jump on finasteride.

Kirby did you ask your Doctor if they could do the test? the NHS won't pay for cosmetic things but it's only a test so it might be worth a try.

my GP just wrote me a private prescription for finasteride. The bad news is I'll have to pay for it, but the good news is he prescribed me generic 5mg instead of Propecia, so it should be somewhat cheaper

When it comes to it, i'm going to try and persuede the NHS to pay for a hair transplant or hair piece system on the grounds that it's causing me significant psychological problems. you never know...
 

antman

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"I have asthma, allergies, as well as rhinitis and IBS"
"BTW I realise than I almost certainly have male pattern baldness, but I'm near-absolute certain that I have a 'secondary factor' in there too."

same. i think some of the drivers for other problems are the same for male hair loss.

i think that if you find something that reduces the effects of those drivers - you'll see your hair loss rate drop & other problems will reduce as well.

Cetirizine, yoga, veges, chinese herbs eta - all have a positive effect on these issues.

It's probably not a cure by itself - by i think it can improve the outcome whilst using finasteride.
 

Leo_lo

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OK, my story...
* noticed hairloss last October. At first I believed it was damage from regular hair straightening!
* I am a diffuse, all-over thinner. I have been told that I have NW2 hairline (I think much nearer NW3 myself).
* started finasteride 1mg (branded Propecia) in January (see sig for exact date).
* didn't add any other treatments, mainstream or experimental, and won't without knowing for sure that finasteride works first. I have the intention to, but need to know whether finasteride works for me first, as the foundation stone of a good regimen.
* shed hair DRASTICALLY in the second half of January. The difference was enormous. My girlfriend, who'd denied that I had hairloss, began to agree with me after the shedding!
* never regrew any of the early shed-loss hair, even at this point. However, my hairloss stabilised completely, the scalp itch I had disappeared, so did the severe dandruff.
* when all the way to London to a hairloss clinic, and was squinted at across a desk by a non-doctor, who gave me no straight answers. On reflection, they saw I wasn't a potential hair transplant patient, so weren't bothered.
* started another shedding phase at the end of September. I still have hair falling out, on the pillow each morning, when I wash my hair. Hair has much worse density than when I started finasteride.

That's my story brought up to date for now. I'm ****ing terrified. Baseline hair quantities + extra thickening and growth would be acceptable to me, and that's what I assumed would happen.

I might not be of any help, but I can relate with most of your post. I realized I had hairloss (diffuse thinning also and NW2-3) during the summer of 2011 (at 27). I started taking minoxidil twice a day and Nizoral shampoo 2-3x/week in October 2011. After 5 months of this regimen, unsatisfied with the results, I decided to add propecia 1.25mg to the package. I've now been on the big 3 for 7 complete months and I haven't noticed any regrowth over that period. I've experienced two phases of shedding without any recovery. While last year it the balding was unnoticeable to almost everybody, today it's hard to hide. Oh and even thought I'm not medicated, I also have anxiety problems.

Quite a sh*?tty situation. If things change on my side or if I find anything that might help, I'll let you know.
 

balding89

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I might not be of any help, but I can relate with most of your post. I realized I had hairloss (diffuse thinning also and NW2-3) during the summer of 2011 (at 27). I started taking minoxidil twice a day and Nizoral shampoo 2-3x/week in October 2011. After 5 months of this regimen, unsatisfied with the results, I decided to add propecia 1.25mg to the package. I've now been on the big 3 for 7 complete months and I haven't noticed any regrowth over that period. I've experienced two phases of shedding without any recovery. While last year it the balding was unnoticeable to almost everybody, today it's hard to hide. Oh and even thought I'm not medicated, I also have anxiety problems.

Quite a sh*?tty situation. If things change on my side or if I find anything that might help, I'll let you know.

I am on my 13th month now. used propecia + minoxidil + nizoral for 8 full months, only saw more thinning at the temples and hairline. stopped minoxidil after 8 months and now situation is worse. I shed all the minuturized hairs which minoxidil was keeping alive. But since those hairs would not grow anymore, I did not see any point in using minoxidil anymore. I 2 have the feeling that finasteride only made things worse. When I look back at the pictures of 1 year ago (just when starting treatment), I should have been very happy whit the hair I had then. Just a bit of recession at my temples nothing special. now it has gotten 3x worse. I think finasteride is not for everybody... And I don't understand why :)
 

pablo

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I have quit all the treatments and still going bald.
the interestig thing is that i have more hairs coming out in places where they did not grow while taking meds and hairs are falling where they came out while taking the meds.
 

Kirby

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OK, visual update, got some '90s style curtains going on, hides the horrible shape of my hairline (really, it's quite a grow-over/comb-over up front, I've been under estimating how much of a beating my hairline was taking over the years before I started finasteride).

Unfortunately, the diffuse lose 'strip' (almost like the female variant of male pattern baldness, I've realised) is still quite visible in any kind of strong light. I do look odd as my hair is basically my 'Jewfro' thickness all round the sides and back, but very wispy and see-through on top, moreso than this photo really portrays.

Literally never had any form of regrowth or thickening since starting finasteride last January. Not a jot. Perhaps the early shed has reveresed a tiny amount, but it's certainly no improvement over day one.

FWIW I saw a dermatologist privately last day of November last year, he diagnosed some stress-triggered Telogen Effluvium after a 'scope check, and said I really needed to make sure I keep an eye on my hairline - he strongly suggested minoxidil, for the hairline, to at least preserve up front there. I hven't done that yet though as 1.) my NHS GP refuses to give me a (non NHS) finasteride prescription, or acknowledge that I have male pattern baldness or any hair loss, and ignored the dermatologist's diagnosis letter ("I'm disregarding this", he said dismissively with a hand-wave) so I have no idea what to do once the finasteride i have runs out, and whether I can still fight hair loss at all, i don't want to use minoxidil without finasteride basically (I can't afford to see any private dermatologists again soon) 2.) I'm terrified of minoxidil side effects on the heart 3.) I'm terrified of using minoxidil long term - finasteride, well, we'll have CB-03-01 or a PGD2 blocker topical or something before the decade is out to replace it, but what about minoxidil? Hair gets dependent on that.

P1010475.jpg
 

DoctorHouse

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Kirby, your hair looks fine. You have some very mild thinning if that. I have the same thinning down the middle too and unfortunately my hair is no where as thick as yours and my temple points are fading and my hairline is getting higher. I used to wear my hair like you but I can't anymore as its too thin so I have to settle for a hair style similar to John Stamos. It like a modified longer Caesar cut but it works for me and hides the thinning down the middle and my receding hairline line. Try using 2 percent minoxidil and see how you do. You can always quit if it gives you problems. I have quit minoxidil and went back on it many times. Never got any really bad sheds from it.
 

Korean Wave

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I have had the exact same experience with finasteride and HAD to stop taking the drug. My hair is shedding ridiculously again, however, I'm debating with myself whether or not I should start finasteride again? It could ruin my hair density again and then I've lost all hope in hiding my hair loss.
 

Kirby

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Kirby, your hair looks fine. You have some very mild thinning if that. I have the same thinning down the middle too and unfortunately my hair is no where as thick as yours and my temple points are fading and my hairline is getting higher. I used to wear my hair like you but I can't anymore as its too thin so I have to settle for a hair style similar to John Stamos. It like a modified longer Caesar cut but it works for me and hides the thinning down the middle and my receding hairline line. Try using 2 percent minoxidil and see how you do. You can always quit if it gives you problems. I have quit minoxidil and went back on it many times. Never got any really bad sheds from it.
Hmm, I kind of regret posting that photo now, I took 2 dozen with various flash settings and the one I posted was the 'least worst' (TBH I couldn't face reading this thread again if I'd posted one of the most revealing shots. I still go out with a hat on all the time - I was extremely relieved we've had cold weather and light snow the last two weeks. People who've seen my hair upclose have said the whole 'shave your head, get it over with' ****.

Does 2% minoxidil come in foam BTW? I've come to the conclusion it's foam or nothing for me, lotion I couldn't handle.
 

DoctorHouse

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Hairomega makes a 2 percent foam but it does not really foam as good as Rogaine foam but it is a foam.
 

piacere

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Has anyone been in this situation and decided to quit Finasteride?

This I would like to know as well.

I'm in a similar boat as you Kirby. I've been on finasteride for 12 months now, then recently added minoxidil and a stupid *** laser comb 7 months ago. Since adding minoxidil I've noticed tiny hairs at my hairline, but I can't really tell if they are going or just chillin there. I do know that I have had a constant shed since beginning finasteride, and no real noticeable gains. It's weird for me as I never really had shedding phases like everyone here talks about. It's just been constant over the 12 months.
 

Gerry

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I am 59 and started thinning at about 45 at the crown but is was a very slow process and I retained my hairline until about two years ago when I noticed that I was seeing more of my crown when looking at my hair with a backlight. I decided to try a regime of Propecia and Minoxidal Extra Strength. I stayed on this for about seven months then heard about a new non drug based product called Trx2 so decided long term that might be better. Been on that now for nearly six months and had no signs of any growth but in the past eight weeks my frontal hairline has just diminished faster than anything before and now I am unable to even apply concealers without it being obvious and a mess. I have decided to have a go with Avocat (Dutasteride) as it is supposedly more effective than Finistride but am totally freaked out that in just eight short weeks my hair has disappeared faster than in the past 15 years and that is along with taking all these dam snake oils and potions that cost a fortune. I have heard that people when they come off these products can go through a rapid shed and that appears to be the problem with me. I can only hope that over time if I stay on Avocet they may return but I do not hold out much hope. I am a professional singer and like or not my appearence is important and I am afraid that being bald is not a look that works with me atall. Some guys can wear it well bit i aint one of them sadly.. I am also worried about the effect this is having on me as a person and on my self confidence and ability to be the person i need to be for my family and children, It is a sickeningly dibilitating feeling seeing yourself change in this way and feeling powerless to do anything about it. Yesterday i forced myself to go to mens wig supplier and I am having a frontal hairline hairpiece made so that I can at least still get in front of the public and perform with some confidence and I am also going to look further into hair transplants but again that seems a real jungle of misinformationn and false claims... anybody else had this sudden and rapid shedding and loss of previous hair after coming off Finistride???
 
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