10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy

[thetodd]

Wow.


How has the news gone down in the American media? Have the public swallowed the Israeli propaganda line about the ship being an al-qaeda super duper floating terrorist nuclear weapon which will come and kill your children if isn't blow out of the water, or are they freakin' appalled by the mistreatment of humanitarian aid workers?

Propoganda?
Isreal warned the ship not to try and run the blockade.
The ship tried anyway.
Isreal dropped three of their special forces members on the boat to inspect the cargo. They were immediately and viciously attacked. Only then did Isreal respond by using deadly force. Today Isreal stopped another ship in the same way, but since they weren't met with violence, they used none in return.
Isreal would be absolutely foolish to let any ship enter Gaza without inspecting the cargo first, regardless of what anyone has told them it is. That's not propoganda. It's just the truth.

 

[Cassin]

Bryan

In short....I would remove all aid and support for everyone. It gets to a point where countries are wanting to war so badly you have to let them. I know it's a complicated issue but that's my basic answer.

 

[HughJass]

Propoganda?
Isreal warned the ship not to try and run the blockade.
The ship tried anyway.
Isreal dropped three of their special forces members on the boat to inspect the cargo. They were immediately and viciously attacked. Only then did Isreal respond by using deadly force. Today Isreal stopped another ship in the same way, but since they weren't met with violence, they used none in return.
Isreal would be absolutely foolish to let any ship enter Gaza without inspecting the cargo first, regardless of what anyone has told them it is. That's not propoganda. It's just the truth.

Oh boy....I'm too tired to type out a refutation of that. It's been done to death in the media.



In short, all of what you've said is a total load of sh*t.

 

[HughJass]

Is that the pernicious British influence on your speech patterns?

No.

 

[The Gardener]

I understand that Gazans launched rockets from Gaza, but maybe this wouldn't happen if Israel stopped extending its ever growing web-like incursions of settlements into sovereign Palestinian land in the West Bank.

Are you dreaming? Israels neighbors will never stop throwing stones or rockets matter what water land, riches, you give them. Don't you realize it is inbred (taught) in them to hate Israel and Israel to hate them, the only solution is to let them all kill each other or Israel to leave completely.

If Mexico kept shooting rockets or throwing stones at us killing us do you think Mexico would still be there? Well yes, it seems today we many Americans have lost their balls.

What a crock.

You need to stop buying the Israeli propoganda and look at the facts and the situation on the ground for what it is. May I direct your attention to this map:

If MY country were being subsumed by a neighboring country like Palestine is, then I'd be launching rockets and fighting like hell too.

Israel CONTINUES to build new settlements in the West Bank, on sovereign PALESTINIAN land. These settlements have grown in a web-like pattern between and around existing Palestinian population centers, and the Israelis connect these settlements with "Israeli-only" roads, in effect creating Palestinian "bantustans". On top of this, in order for Palestinians to travel from one sovereign Palestinian city to a neighboring one, they are forced to go through checkpoints.

This map shows Israeli checkpoints WITHIN sovereign West Bank lands:

Compare the top map to a map from the only other nation that has tried to subjugate an ethnic population... Apartheid South Africa:

Notice any similarities?

Israel is an apartheid state.

I have real heartburn with this statement of yours:

Don't you realize it is inbred (taught) in them to hate Israel and Israel to hate them, the only solution is to let them all kill each other or Israel to leave completely

Utter BS. In urban areas where Palestinians and Israelis live in close proximity to each other, individual Israelis and Palestinians actually get along quite well, and almost half of the Jewish Israeli population actually AGREES with my point that the West Bank expansion is wrong and needs to stop and in many areas be REVERSED.

The problem is that the leadership on both sides WANTS the conflict to continue, because it serves their political interests.

 

[Hammy070]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

He (King George III) has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

 

[somone uk]

i think we should just leave them to die out, it's not our war
though Israel will inevitably win because they are more technologically advanced and their forces are more organised and better trained solders
hmm maybe bring pacifist aid to civilian Palestinians (Israel can look after themselves)

 

[hairrific]

"The Gardner" :
If MY country were being subsumed by a neighboring country like Palestine is, then I'd be launching rockets and fighting like hell too.

You have that back *** words don't you? Because of constant attacks the check points were put in place. So you feel the check pionts were put up just to harass the Palestinians and then after that they decided to launch rockets? Yep seems you have it back *** words Mr. I see how your logic is working do you?

Hey Gardner, got any more California dreaming facts for us? Your not looking at the whole story. So you feel that if Israel does all you think they should then there will be peace?????

Your maps only proves why these people will never get along. Not only that, you left out the rest of the maps beyond these boarders and you only are going back to 1946!!!!

Go back to the biblical days if you are crazy about maps and get the whole story why this land is mapped today like is. Earlier maps show the huge land mass of Jordan with a wealth of fresh water and resources needs to give some land back to the Palestinians, but you jumped on the media band wagon and left out allot of facts.

"The Gardener"
In urban areas where Palestinians and Israelis live in close proximity to each other, individual Israelis and Palestinians actually get along quite well,

Oh yes the Israel just loves Arabs as house guest and next door neighbors and they love Israelis! They have so much in common! Ha! "The Gardner",your funny! I suppose you are one that feels we need to give North America back to the Indians too.

 

[The Gardener]

Gardner, your not looking at the whole story. So you feel that if Israel does all you think they should then there will be peace????? Your maps only proves why these people will never get along. Not only that you left out the rest of the maps beyond these boarders and you only are going back to 1946!!!! Go back to the biblical days if you are crazy about maps and get the whole story why this land is mapped today like is, and even then the hate was there and still is always.

Actually, before WW2, the indigenous Jews and Muslims had coexisted quite peacefully in Palestine for a few centuries. The problems started when the rush of European Jews started flooding into the area. As these new emigrants started coming in en masse, they brutalized native Palestinians, driving them off of their land, using deadly force at times, and taking all of the most arable lands and declaring them to be "Jewish Only".

There is a difference between the indigenous Jews who had lived in Palestine for centuries and the European Jewish colonists. The indigenous Jews were largely relatively humble agrarian folk who harbored no "nationalistic desire" to impose their will upon the land. This concept of chauvenistic nationalism is a distinctly Western European trait.

Earlier maps show Jordan (a huge land mass, fresh water, resources,) needs to give some land back to the Palestinians, but you leave out allot of facts don't you.

Nope, not really. I think you're the one leaving out a lot of inconvenient facts.

Oh yes the Israel just loves Arabs as house guest and next door neighbors and they love Israelis! They have so much in common! Ha! "The Gardner",your funny! I suppose you are one that feels we need to give North America back to the Indians too.

Everyday Palestinians and Israelis have developed quite a symbiotic economic existence.

As for the "give North America back to the Indians" comment, well, that's one hell of a huge red herring to toss out onto the table. Yes, the American emigrants treatment of Indians was brutal, but then again that was done during an era where people still believed that forced colonization of foreign lands was a symbol of progress, and still believed in such tosh as "The White Man's Burden", etc. I think the decent majority of Western civilization have long since renounced such values... and, frankly speaking, quite a large segment of Israelis have as well.

Now, DO NOT GET ME WRONG... I am NOT anti-Israeli. I love Israel. I know it may seem contradictory for me to say that, if you understand the nuance of what I am describing, its not that hard to figure out. YES, Israel has a sort of "original sin" component to their creation just as the US does. But as opposed to the US situation where our "original sins" are slowly getting more healed, the Israeli issue is still a festering wound that is just getting worse with time. I just think that they should stop the continued encroachment into sovereign Palestinian lands. It's causing more problems that it is solving.

 

[Nene]

"The Gardner" :
If MY country were being subsumed by a neighboring country like Palestine is, then I'd be launching rockets and fighting like hell too.

You have that back *** words don't you? Because of constant attacks the check points were put in place. So you feel the check pionts were put up just to harass the Palestinians and then after that they decided to launch rockets? Yep seems you have it back *** words Mr. I see how your logic is working do you?

Hey Gardner, got any more California dreaming facts for us? Your not looking at the whole story. So you feel that if Israel does all you think they should then there will be peace?????

Your maps only proves why these people will never get along. Not only that, you left out the rest of the maps beyond these boarders and you only are going back to 1946!!!!

Go back to the biblical days if you are crazy about maps and get the whole story why this land is mapped today like is. Earlier maps show the huge land mass of Jordan with a wealth of fresh water and resources needs to give some land back to the Palestinians, but you jumped on the media band wagon and left out allot of facts.

[quote:2vv7kkj6]"The Gardener"
In urban areas where Palestinians and Israelis live in close proximity to each other, individual Israelis and Palestinians actually get along quite well,

Oh yes the Israel just loves Arabs as house guest and next door neighbors and they love Israelis! They have so much in common! Ha! "The Gardner",your funny! I suppose you are one that feels we need to give North America back to the Indians too.[/quote:2vv7kkj6]

Don't you realize the contradiction here? You're against giving back land to the Indians ( land that was theirs as little as a couple of 100s of years ago), yet you're cool with giving back land to the Jews (land that was theirs 1000s of years ago).

 

[Cassin]

hairrific...slow down

 

[dougfunny]

I thought Jewish people were suppose to be smart? why don't they move out of that sh*t hole and join the Morons I mean Mormons in Utah or something.

 

[hairrific]

Don't you realize the contradiction here? You're against giving back land to the Indians ( land that was theirs as little as a couple of 100s of years ago),

Yes because WE BE HERE ALREADY and we be not so bad or useless too (though Michael Moore would certainly disagree).

yet you're cool with giving back land to the Jews (land that was theirs 1000s of years ago).

Yes because THEY BE THERE ALREADY where the hell would they all go, to the Ghetto in Germany?

I am also against giving land back to Mexico obtained through that bazaar document called "Manifest Destiny" because we be here already.

I am also against giving Neanderthals the earth back that Homo sapiens unfairly obtained from them through that bazaar theory "survival of the fittest" because we be here already. So I guess we will just have to have fake Neanderthals keep doing those Geico commercials.

 

[Nene]

Don't you realize the contradiction here? You're against giving back land to the Indians ( land that was theirs as little as a couple of 100s of years ago),

Yes because WE BE HERE ALREADY and we be not so bad or useless too (though Michael Moore would certainly disagree).

[quote:5z5m4373]

yet you're cool with giving back land to the Jews (land that was theirs 1000s of years ago).

Yes because THEY BE THERE ALREADY where the hell would they all go, to the Ghetto in Germany?

I am also against giving land back to Mexico obtained through that bazaar document called "Manifest Destiny" because we be here already.

I am also against giving Neanderthals the earth back that Homo sapiens unfairly obtained from them through that bazaar theory "survival of the fittest" because we be here already. So I guess we will just have to have fake Neanderthals keep doing those Geico commercials.[/quote:5z5m4373]

Ok, if you are against all of that, then you should've been against the creation of Israel.

 

[HughJass]

I thought Jewish people were suppose to be smart? why don't they move out of that sh*t hole and join the Morons I mean Mormons in Utah or something.

A lot of them are smart enough not to emigrate to Israel. More are immigrating out of that place then going there to live. Can't see that changing.

 

[HughJass]

Because of constant attacks the check points were put in place.

I would have that the old 'unprovoked violence' excuse wore thin with even the most casual observers of this conflict. Apparently not. Why is that?

So now the victim is the one who hijacks of ships, steals land and attempts to starve out an entire population. Are these acts of charity that should met with thanks by those on the receiving end?

 

[Smooth]

By this logic, both America and Australia should give back lands to Native Americans and Indigenous Australians .

 

[Bekim]

By this logic, both America and Australia should give back lands to Native Americans and Indigenous Australians .

this nots true uks give lands to others

this not belongs two uks in firsts place

America and Australia not same




Bekim

 

[Smooth]

its not a question of true or not, its simple logic...which by it, everyone should be where they came from the first place.

 

[Hammy070]

The US and Autralia analogy is inaccurate.

Firstly, they were at a time when slavery, colonization, racism were perfectly acceptable.

Israel was created when those things were either outlawed or in the process of being outlawed. Entirely different contexts.

Additionally, the Palestinians were not uncivilized stone age folk to begin with.

Before Israel, there were major cities, land ownership, electricity, roads, hospitals, politicians and mayors.

It was not a nation because Britain was there. They were not desert nomads.