10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy

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HughJass

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I'd been tracking it last night and this morning, woke up this afternoon and switched the internet on and a whole pile of corpses have stacked up. Israelies attack a humanitarian aid vessel in international waters. Wow.


The Turks are furious and have recalled their cheif of armed forces from Egypt. Will we see an Islamic government there sometime soon?


What will Obama do if Americans are among the dead?


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10 dead as Israeli forces storm Gaza aid convoy

By the CNN Wire Staff
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
NEW: Group says raid took place outside Israeli territorial waters
Turkey recalls its ambassador to Israel in protest
Israel: "During the incident the soldier's lives were in danger"
Aid convoy was taking supplies to Gaza in defiance of Israel's three-year blockade
(CNN) -- International condemnation poured in Monday after Israeli soldiers stormed a flotilla of ships carrying aid intended for Palestinians in Gaza, leaving at least 10 people dead in the resulting violence.

Israel claimed it was defending itself, with the Israel Defense Forces saying the soldiers' lives were in danger after they were attacked with "severe physical violence, including live fire, weapons, knives and clubs."

IDF spokeswoman Lt. Col. Avital Leibowitz said light weapons and handguns were confiscated. "We basically encountered a lynch," she said. "We had to control this violence."

But other nations condemned the military action and called for an investigation.

White House spokesman Bill Burton said the United States "deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy."

World reaction

The Spanish and French governments called the action "disproportionate." The Italian foreign minister asked the European Union to investigate, and several nations, including Greece and Sweden, were summoning their Israeli ambassadors.

An indignant Turkey recalled its ambassador from Israel, canceled three planned military exercises with the Israeli military and called home its youth national football team, which had two games scheduled in Israel, said Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc.

Q&A: What is the blockade about

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was in Chile, but will return after meeting with the Chilean president, Arinc said. The chief of the Turkish military was cutting short a trip to Egypt. The Turkish foreign minister, in Venezuela, was calling the United Nations Security Council to an emergency meeting, Arinc said.

"This operation will leave a bloody stain on the history of humanity," Arinc said. A Turkish group, the Humanitarian Relief Foundation or IHH, was one of the organizers of the flotilla, but people from various nations were aboard.

In a statement, Bahrain called it a "barbaric attack" on the part of Israel.

Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair, an envoy for the Middle East Quartet, a group of nations working toward peace in the region, said in a statement Monday: "There obviously has to be a full investigation into what has happened. Once again I repeat my view that we need a different and better way of helping the people of Gaza and avoiding the hardship and tragedy that is inherent in the present situation."

Current Foreign Minister William Hague said: "We have consistently advised against attempting to access Gaza in this way, because of the risks involved. But at the same time, there is a clear need for Israel to act with restraint and in line with international obligations."

Five Israeli soldiers were wounded, the military said. The ships of the flotilla were being taken to the Israeli port of Ashdod, according to IDF.

The Free Gaza Movement, one of the groups sponsoring the flotilla, disputed Israel's claim of violence by people aboard the ships.

"At about 4:30 am, Israeli commandos dropped from a helicopter onto deck of Turkish ship, immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians," said a post on the group's Twitter page.

Video aired on CNN sister network CNN Turk showed soldiers abseiling onto the deck of a ship from a helicopter above. The boarding of the ships took place more than 70 nautical miles outside Israeli territorial waters, according to IHH.

The Turkish foreign ministry said the incident "might cause irreversible consequences" in the nation's relationship with Israel.

"Israel has once again clearly demonstrated that it does not value human lives and peaceful initiatives through targeting innocent civilians," the statement said. "We strongly condemn these inhuman acts of Israel."

Meanwhile, a protest that began outside the Israeli embassy in Istanbul on Sunday continued into Monday. Although largely peaceful, police did use water cannons at one point to keep demonstrators at bay. Israel issued a "serious travel warning" for Israelis visiting Turkey. Those planning to travel to Turkey were asked to postpone their trip, while those in Turkey were advised to stay indoors.

The Israeli PM office has issues a serious travel warning for Israeli travelers visiting Turkey. The warning calls Israelis who are about to travel into Turkey to postpone their trip and for Israelis in Turkey to remain indoors and avoid presence in the city centers.

In Gaza, where the flotilla was headed, Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri called for global support of the Palestinian cause.

"The Israeli attack on the Freedom Flotilla is an ugly crime and against international law and this reflects the nature of the criminal Israeli occupation," Zuhri said. "We call upon the free world Arab and Muslim world to stand in support and help and support the international activists who have been subjected to killing in the middle of the sea."

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called for three days of mourning in the Palestinian territories to honor the lives lost.

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev accused the leaders of the flotilla of looking for a fight.

"They wanted to make a political statement. They wanted violence," according to Regev, who said Israel wanted a peaceful interception of the ships trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza. "They are directly responsible for the violence and the deaths that occurred."

The convoy of boats approached Gaza in defiance of an Israeli blockade and had been shadowed by three Israeli warships. Free Gaza had reported Sunday that they had been contacted by the Israeli navy.

The boats left European ports in a consolidated protest organized by two pro-Palestinian groups to deliver tons of food and other aid to Gaza to break a blockade imposed by Israel in 2007.

The maritime convoys were organized by both the Free Gaza Movement and the IHH, a humanitarian relief foundation affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood religious group.

Israel said Sunday that Western and Turkish authorities have accused IHH of having "working relations" with different terrorist organizations.

CNN's Ben Wedeman in Cairo, Egypt, and Ivan Watson in Istanbul, Turkey, contributed to this report.
 

Cassin

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Re: so yeah, that Gaza flotilla thing...

A few things I want to say that I hope don't derail this topic...

1. I would love for us to go back to the days where we could have pages of intelligent non attacking posts that didn't bog down into religions hatred with petty internet tough guy temper tantrums. So lets start again with this post guys. I really miss the great discussion we used to have.

2. Before I get flooded with people who get upset about a "anti Israel" thread you should know I got attacked for being a "Israeli Jew supporter" via pm last week for a nasty thread I moved off the visible forum. I am totally neutral on this topic as far as this forum goes and can't win.
 

HughJass

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Pressure is mounting on deputy prime minister Nick Clegg to speak out against the killing of 19 protesters on the Freedom Flotilla - following his own demands for tougher action against the Israeli blockade of Palestine.

The Liberal Democrat has not yet spoken out to condemn the raiding of the boats and death of unarmed civilian peace protesters. Today's events could cause a serious rift in the coalition Government with the pro-Israeli Conservatives.

http://atthesauce.blogspot.com/2010/05/ ... eedom.html
 

Hammy070

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Re: so yeah, that Gaza flotilla thing...

Cassin said:
A few things I want to say that I hope don't derail this topic...

1. I would love for us to go back to the days where we could have pages of intelligent non attacking posts that didn't bog down into religions hatred with petty internet tough guy temper tantrums. So lets start again with this post guys. I really miss the great discussion we used to have.

2. Before I get flooded with people who get upset about a "anti Israel" thread you should know I got attacked for being a "Israeli Jew supporter" via pm last week for a nasty thread I moved off the visible forum. I am totally neutral on this topic as far as this forum goes and can't win.

I don't envy you your task. Moderating this loaded subject is much harder than declaring viewpoints on it.

As for the incident, it will transpire in a predictable way.

1) Some will be outraged, and use it as ammunition for their existing stance.
2) Some will immediately rationalize it in Israels' favour.
3) Some don't care.

It's obvious what my stance is. But my stance, and almost everybody elses' doesn't matter at all.

What matters is who has the biggest gun, the strongest backup and the most cash. It's not cynical, it's just reality. If you have those three, you've already got away with it.
 

The Gardener

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Absolutely disgusting incident. I guess Gaza is just one big jail, surrounded by Israelis, who are intent on inflicting collective punishment on all Gazans.

I understand that Gazans launched rockets from Gaza, but maybe this wouldn't happen if Israel stopped extending its ever growing web-like incursions of settlements into sovereign Palestinian land in the West Bank.
 

HughJass

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Another ship on the way to gaza that was delayed first time round, the Rachel Corrie, Irish flagged.


Earlier today, Taoiseach Brian Cowen warned there would be “most serious consequencesâ€￾ should any harm come to Irish citizens involved with an aid flotilla destined for Gaza.

Both Mr Cowen and Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheál Martin called on Israel to allow Irish humanitarian ship, the MV Rachel Corrie , pass through its military blockade of Gaza.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing33.html
 

Shasta

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It is disgusting to see what has occurred between Israel and Turkey - and what this could escalate into.

On a side note, it's ironic that North Korea can sink a South Korean ship killing dozens of sailors with out provocation and world rage is little to nothing.

I thought this blog had a nice write up on Turkey's changing position in being Israel's alley in the past, to today religious government wanting to be a leader in the Islamic world.

http://www.advicegoddess.com/goddessblog.html
 

somone uk

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do i smell ww3?
maybe the people who built nuke shelters in the 60's were rational after all
i am pretty sure a lot of governments have their finger on the button at the moment
i can't imagine 2 nuclear nations could really survive a war with each other, nor keep the rest of the world for that matter
 

s.a.f

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I can imagine CCS's in his shelter right now.
 

s.a.f

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I can imagine CCS's in his shelter right now.
 

The Gardener

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somone uk said:
do i smell ww3?
maybe the people who built nuke shelters in the 60's were rational after all
i am pretty sure a lot of governments have their finger on the button at the moment
i can't imagine 2 nuclear nations could really survive a war with each other, nor keep the rest of the world for that matter

Actually, a nuclear war is a very survivable event... in the short term.

Of course, those in urban centers who are directly targeted will get vaporized. But, if you are in an area outside of ground zero, and the blast zone, or if you were sheltered from the blast by geographic features, then your chances of survival are actually quite good... IF... you know some basic physics about fallout and radiation which require some basic materials and preparation, and enough food and water to hunker down for a week, you'll emerge alive.

The problem will be finding long term sustenance.

Now of course the Russians have lots of serious high yield warheads that would be awfully difficult to run away from, but, the lower tier nuclear players' warheads do not nearly have the yields of the Russian and American weapons. A strike from a second tier nation with fewer numbers of lower yield warheads would definitely NOT be anything near a "knockout blow". It would be devastating, catastrophic, extremely high casualty rates and generational damages from radiation... but there would be a significant chance for suburban survivability.
 

s.a.f

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Thats what I was thinking a full on Nuclear strike would probably only kill just a few percent of the worlds population. But it will be a bizarre world for the survivors a mix of medevial style living but with some 21st century technology aswell. I myself live close to the blast area for whats probably europes biggest target so I'll be gone pretty quickly.
 

HughJass

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s.a.f said:
I can imagine CCS's in his shelter right now.


oh god.....


CCS's diary from the nuclear bunker, day 152:

"Temples are filling in somewhat, less thinning around crown and overall better hair quality. Eyebrows look much better and reduction in armpit hair density. Will probably move into shelter permanently based on these results..."
 

HughJass

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“The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 [PDF] makes it absolutely illegal for any American to give food, money, school supplies, paper clips, concrete or weapons to Hamas or any of its officials,â€￾ Sherman said on the Israel Project call, conflating Hamas and Gaza’s civilian population. “And so I will be asking the Attorney General to prosecute any American involved in what was clearly an effort to give items of value to a terrorist organization.â€￾

Sherman also said that he plans on working with the Department of Homeland Security to make sure that any non-U.S. citizen involved with or aboard the Flotilla are excluded from entering the U.S.

http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/ap ... ct=8425989


Wow.


How has the news gone down in the American media? Have the public swallowed the Israeli propaganda line about the ship being an al-qaeda super duper floating terrorist nuclear weapon which will come and kill your children if isn't blow out of the water, or are they freakin' appalled by the mistreatment of humanitarian aid workers?
 

Cassin

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I will not claim to be always be successful, but in my adult life I have always tried to keep an open mind and see both sides of everything.

Over time my opinion has steadily changed year by year...as an American I now want the US to completely pull out of the middle east in every way possible with minimal involvement after that. And that includes every other country in the future. I am not a flag waving isolationist but I am leaning in that direction I guess.

America needs to not meddle, with anyone...unless its a true emergency and we're asked by true allies or forced by persistent enemies. Other countries need to fend for themselves and sort their own issues out without our generally unwanted assistance. Sure we can buy science from Israel and oil from Iran but we don't need to send any scrap military metal over there. Over a long enough timelines its equally everyone's fault in any long term struggle. If South Korea wants us to lift embargo's on the North....screw it...they have more stake in this than we do. Cuba? They will be fine eventually...lift it. I understand we can't suddenly lift our involvement since we've gone too deep with everyone but we can start making deadlines and stop involvement.

In theory it sounds great to "help" other countries...I mean it sounds so good...

Mission: Blast the bad guys to the dark ages, help the "helpless" build schools, homes, crops and then parade down the streets as everyone cheers us. Bull.sh*t.

It simply doesn't work like that.
 

Bryan

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aussieavodart said:
How has the news gone down in the American media?

From what I've seen, the media has been rather balanced and impartial, acknowledging that we don't really know for sure exactly what happened, citing the claims and counter-claims. I've heard some right-wing radio talk-show hosts express a pro-Israeli position, however.

aussieavodart said:
Have the public swallowed the Israeli propaganda line...

Aside from your heated rhetoric, I find it interesting that you say "Have the public..." I think all Americans (almost 100% of them) would say "Has the public swallowed the line..." Is that the pernicious British influence on your speech patterns? :)
 

Bryan

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Cassin said:
Over time my opinion has steadily changed year by year...as an American I now want the US to completely pull out of the middle east in every way possible with minimal involvement after that. And that includes every other country in the future. I am not a flag waving isolationist but I am leaning in that direction I guess.

America needs to not meddle, with anyone...unless its a true emergency and we're asked by true allies or forced by persistent enemies. Other countries need to fend for themselves and sort their own issues out without our generally unwanted assistance. Sure we can buy science from Israel and oil from Iran but we don't need to send any scrap military metal over there.

Would you remove all support/aid for Israel?
 

hairrific

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The Gardener said:
I understand that Gazans launched rockets from Gaza, but maybe this wouldn't happen if Israel stopped extending its ever growing web-like incursions of settlements into sovereign Palestinian land in the West Bank.

Are you dreaming? Israels neighbors will never stop throwing stones or rockets matter what water land, riches, you give them. Don't you realize it is inbred (taught) in them to hate Israel and Israel to hate them, the only solution is to let them all kill each other or Israel to leave completely.

If Mexico kept shooting rockets or throwing stones at us killing us do you think Mexico would still be there? Well yes, it seems today we many Americans have lost their balls.
 
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