1.5 years on: Still balding in front, what to do?

[Hairball]

Everyone,
I've been currently on Propecia for 1.5 years and Rogaine 5 percent for 6 months, shampooing with Nizoral 2 percent every day or two. I took pictures today (will post), and to my surprise, my balding on the back was done. However, I am still clearly balding on the front. At first I thought it might just be the infamous minoxidil shed, but that's clearly not true unless it's a six month shed. SO - what do I do to improve my treatment? I've been thinking of the following, and would like to hear people's opinions.

1) Proxiphen (with Nano) - expensive, but have heard good things.
2) Xandrox instead of regular Rogaine. 12.5 percent maybe for those
hard to regrow areas? To be honest, have not seen much regrowth from minoxidil so far...
3) dutasteride? Worried about side effects.

What's the verdict? I'm a poor grad student, but I'll throw down for ONE and only one of these products for a year as an experiment to see if I can save my precious frontal hairline. Right now with a little tiny bit of Toppik I look good, but if I lose much more of my precious hairline I won't! My precious, my precious Lastly, what's the best conditioner to go with nizoral?

Cheers,
Hairball

 

[freudling]

LOL "my precious." :lol: You are definately thinking clearly. I would go the Xandrox route (12.5%) with Reton-A at night for increased absorption. As for Proxiphen, I have not heard such good things about it. You could throw in a Copper Peptide spray on the hairline as well. That is all I can recommend, since you will have exhausted the most powerful treatments on the market. What about dutasteride? I would stay away from it. After about 6 months hopefully you will have halted the hairline and induced some regrowth. I am confident that you will.

Best Wishes.

 

[mvpsoft]

FWIW, I would add either Tricomin or Folligen to your current regimen. Studies show that in addition to helping tame inflammation and increasing skin health, which indirectly helps combat hairloss, copper peptides are also regrowth agents. Folligen is cheaper and more concentrated, but some people complain that it can leave a greenish stain, although I have not experienced that problem. Both dry in about 20 minutes and leave no greasy residue.

If you add one of these and do not experience better results after about six months of usage, then you might consider going to the more expensive and drastic products that you are currently considering.

Given the fact that copper peptides are proven regrowth as well as proven skin health agents, I don't see why anyone who is using topicals doesn't include them in their regimen. They can be used at the same time as minoxidil.

You also might cut down on using Nizoral to three times a week. Using it more often apparently doesn't produce better results, and it dries out your hair. If you have problems with scalp irritation, using one of the coal tar shampoos on other days, such as T-Gel or Denorex, will help. Get the Denorex coal tar shampoo with conditioner.

Another option is to add a Hairmax Lasercomb to your regimen. It's initially expensive, about $650, and you have to get past the natural incredulity that treating hair loss with light could possibly be effective, but it makes my hair look great, and the studies currently being conducted look promising. It is approved for hair loss treatment in Canada and FDA-approved for increasing hair thickness in the US.

 

[freudling]

mvpsoft: sounds like a sales pitch for Copper Peptides. I am going to have to disagree with you and stick to my original prescription. I have monitored posts on Copper Peptides for the past 7 months and although some have claimed some success, most are saying they are getting really nothing in terms of hairloss benefits from it. I too have tried Copper Peptides ALONE on the hairline for 6 months with no success at all. I am now on minoxidil 5%, but still use the Copper Peptide spray for shits and giggles. Remember, time is key here. Go for the Xandrox and stack it with Copper Peptides, while keeping your other stuff in your regime (of course, minus the 5% minoxidil).

 

[mvpsoft]

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... sc&start=0

Fourth post in the thread.

 

[freudling]

I don't care what that book says in Chapter 17, it has not worked for me neither has it worked for others *on the hairline.* I see some other posters out there claiming success, although much less of them than the non-responders. Unfortunately, so many use other products too. In my case, Copper Peptides did absolutely nothing, given my situation.

 

[mvpsoft]

Studies with controls are always more reliable than the anecdotal results of a few people. The studies show that copper peptides regrow hair. Will they work for everyone? No, but when making recommendations to others, which is what this thread is about, it's always better to go with the studies than with the experience of one person or even a few people.

 

[freudling]

While I aknowledge the worth of studies, it is not just a "few" people, but rather, most who have posted feedback about CP over the past 6 months. Copper Peptides were a hyped up 2.5 years ago, and now that it has been on the market for some time, there is much feedback out. I challenge you to show me 5 people who have elicited good results with CP ALONE, without Pro or minoxidil at the hairline.

 

[oni]

So freudling why stay away from dutasteride.

 

[mvpsoft]

There were more than five people in the study. People who have good results often stop posting, stop visiting sites like this. Taking data only from sites like this is an extremely poor way of making decisions about treatment options. For example, we know that the percentage of people experience side effects with finasteride is low. However, if you look at posts here or other hair loss websites, you would think it is 50% or higher.

Go with the studies and the objective data. That's the best way to make decisions. If there is any message to this site, that is it.

 

[freudling]

The only message is that you are dogmatic.

 

[Hairball]

Thanks but still looking for more info

Thanks for the response. I was sort of leaning towards Xandrox. The main issue I have per se with copper pepties is that I tried them for about 3 months and it just seemed to cause one big massive never-ending shed, and my scalp doesn't seem to feel too itchy or anything after Rogaine. One of the moderators here told me to just stick with the current regimen, and I dropped the peptides. I could add them back on but am a bit suspicious of them. So, no proxiphen or dutasteride advocates? If not, I'll probably go with Xandrox and maybe peptides. Again though, Xandrox just regrows thorugh minoxidil-blood stimultion, it doesn't actually stop DHT. Since I am still thinning in front, and the front has more DHT than the back, it just seems I havee a lot more DHT up front than my current regimen can handle, so logic dictates that I try to reduce DHT, not heal the skin (which seems okay) or simulate regrowth (i.e. minoxidil).

Am I right or just totally off-base?

Thanks!

 

[NorwoodClimber]

I am currently about 7.5 months into my regimen (big 3) and recently I started using cu peptides (about 3 weeks ago) to maybe give my regrowth a boost. Since using them I have DEFINATELY noticed shedding going on all over the top of my head that had perviously not happened in the last 7 months and it itches terribly. So I agree with you about the peptides and I am thinking of dropping them as well.

 

[Temples]

Re: Thanks but still looking for more info

Again though, Xandrox just regrows thorugh minoxidil-blood stimultion, it doesn't actually stop DHT.

Dr. Lee claims that the azelaic acid in Xandrox inhibits 98% or more of DHT at the scalp. This claim is disputed by some of our veteran posters though.

http://www.xandrox.com

 

[mvpsoft]

Using anything for three weeks and then dropping it is foolish, unless you get unacceptable side effects. Shedding is normal when changing a regimen, and it can last for months. You will never make any progress by continuously changing your regimen. Copper peptides are a known regrowth agent -- the studies prove that. Furthemore, they work differently than minoxidil or finasteride or even Nizoral, so they are a good complement to these other known effective treatments.

But no matter what treatment you use, starting and stopping things, and making changes every few weeks or months will get you nowhere. Patience, consistency and going with the objective evidence are the keys to an effective regimen.

 

[Temples]

mvp, I've been using Folligen lotion on my hairline daily. This better work or I'm gonna get Mr. T on yo ***.

 

[mvpsoft]

Good luck, but I hope that's not all you're doing. I think copper peptides are best used in conjunction with other things, especially minoxidil and a DHT inhibitor. I think an ideal regimen is the big three plus copper peptides. Nizoral three times a week, 5% minoxidil twice daily, copper peptides twice daily, finasteride daily. Give that regimen a year, see what happens. Ride out any sheds, no matter how long they last.

BTW, if copper peptides trigger scalp itch, that indicates an underlying inflammation that was there anyway. You can dilute the copper peptide solution with water, but you must address the inflammation issue. In addition to Nizoral, use a coal tar shampoo, and use a conditioner. Quitting copper peptides because of an itch is like turning up your car radio to drown out the worrying noise your engine is making. Keep in mind that copper peptides enhance skin health, so the copper is not causing the scalp itch, it's just exposing a problem that's already there.

Pickart's research has shown that tin peptides actually are better regrowth agents. He uses tin peptides in his Folligen for Blondes product. However, tin peptides do nothing for skin health. He recommends the tin peptide product only if you get unacceptable staining from the regular Folligen.

 

[freudling]

mvpsoft: I agree that Copper peptides are a potentially useful addition to the Big three. Perhaps it could be called the Big Four. However, so far, Peptides are lack luster. I am not asking about study members, but rather, people on these forums. Moreover, the old wives tale that most people on these forums - in your case you said 50% - are having bad results. Show me some evidence for that number. There are many who post positive results; many who ask for advice on starting a regime; many who complain. 50% is, what I am implying, far too high. Further, statistically significant numbers regarding generalizations can be derived from smaller samples of a target population, like research studies for example.

As for peptides, useful addtion maybe, but not as effective as minoxidil according to the research. Also, Peptides went through 2 FDA trials from my information, but it was stopped because the results were not as favorable as the researchers (pharmie company) had hoped. I think it was a good move to market it as a cosmetic treatment. However, that does not seem to have brought the price down much!

Best Wishes.

 

[mvpsoft]

The FDA trials that copper peptides failed were for wound healing. You can read about that on skinbiology.com.

Precise statistics regarding self-selecting anecdotal accounts are meaningless. I have regrown hair in four months with copper peptides as part of my regimen since day one. Others have not. So what, in both cases? The best evidence is objective evidence. We know that the best current treatment will not work for everyone, and for some people, no treatments will work.

I get real tired of people who tell others "don't use finasteride" because they get side effects. The same is true for people who say don't use minoxidil or don't use copper peptides or whatever because it didn't work for them. Then you find out in many cases that they used it for a few months or even a few weeks. Go with the objective evidence, stick with your regimen for a year, ride out sheds, add things when needed to combat issues such as inflammation. That's the only effective strategy we have currently.

 

[freudling]

"Precise statistics regarding self-selecting anecdotal accounts are meaningless." This statement is a bit conflated. You are implying that all people who post here fit your quoted category, which is not true. In fact, with the current state of hair loss forums, anti-male pattern baldness regimes are well logged and are not just 'words on page': clear, digital pics spanning over months to years of treatment with detailed records of the contents of each regime.

I recently collected over 25 of the aforementioned type of logs from 2 different hair loss forums, all positive results. Some so positive that it was hard to buy in at first look and read. At any rate, I am not going to say that I can get precise statistics..., since that would be dubious. But to ignore all of the positive posts with such detailed information is foolish. Moreover, you still have not answered my concerns (1) Verify your 50% statement (2) Show me 5 CP only regimes with significant results.