0.25 mg Finasteride

[Bryan]

Here are the actual numbers from that Merck "dose-ranging" study I told you about earlier. That would be: "Clinical studies on the effects of oral finasteride, a type II 5a-reductase ibhibitor, on scalp hair in men with male pattern baldness", by K. D. Kaufman (Merck Research Labs, Rahway, NJ, USA). From the book "Hair Research for the Next Millenium", 1996. All the smaller doses were tested for only six months (M6), while the 5 mg dose was tested for 12 months (M12). I will list each dose separately, followed by its assessment period, followed by its haircount difference, followed by its change in serum DHT level:

placebo: M6, -7, -3.9%
0.01 mg: M6, -3, -10.8%
0.2 mg: M6, +61, -61.7%
1 mg: M6, +77, -68.7%
-----------------------
placebo: M12, -10, 0.0%
5 mg: M12, +95, -69.2%

 

[Ende]

Interresting story. About those numbers, slightly more difference than I remembered, around 7%. I guess it depends on how you see it then, whether it's significant or not. IMO it's still not. It would be interresting to see the different results between 0.2, 1 and 5 mg after 12 months. It's a shame they discontinued the smaller dosages. According to those numbers, even 0.25 mg once a day should be very good.

 

[Ende]

You said that you've never used finasteride, but you have obviously done a lot of research. Why didn't you take the plunge?

 

[Bryan]

You said that you've never used finasteride, but you have obviously done a lot of research. Why didn't you take the plunge?

Partly because I was a little worried about the possibility of side effects. But the main reason is the attitude that had been expressed by one of the other regular posters on alt.baldspot. He had said repeatedly that there was absolutely _no way_ to stop balding, without the use of some kind of systemic antiandrogenic treatment. I vowed to prove him wrong.

 

[Ende]

Haha, I bet you did.

 

[mashang]

Hey Bryan!
interesting read, thanks for the informative posts. you certainly have done your reading/research....
so by what you are saying is that my 0.5mg ED regime of finasteride, is as good as 1mg ED, but the optimal dose would be 1mg! right...
but if 0.5mg is only a few percent less effective as the full 1mg, i should stya on 0.5mg Right?
look forward to your response

 

[Bryan]

so by what you are saying is that my 0.5mg ED regime of finasteride, is as good as 1mg ED, but the optimal dose would be 1mg! right...

It's NEARLY as good.

but if 0.5mg is only a few percent less effective as the full 1mg, i should stya on 0.5mg Right?

That's up to YOU. Do you want to cut the price in half by taking only half a tablet every day, or do you want to push your treatment to the maximum benefit by taking the whole tablet?

 

[Ende]

Just posting a link to the study I've been referring to;
Study of the FDA Files on PROPECIA

 

[mashang]

hi Bryan,
thanks for your reply, and i totally understand what you are saying,
but would i be more likely to get sides from a full 1mg tab, if i have had no sides so far from .5mg (its been 8 months)
the financial side is as not as much of a concern as the sides?

thanks again

 

[Bryan]

hi Bryan, thanks for your reply, and i totally understand what you are saying, but would i be more likely to get sides from a full 1mg tab, if i have had no sides so far from .5mg (its been 8 months) the financial side is as not as much of a concern as the sides?

Maybe, but I consider finasteride's "dose-response" curve to be about as level for SIDE effects as it is for DESIRED effects. In other words, I would consider expected side effects from 1 mg to be only slightly worse than 0.5 mg.

 

[peter079]

I've been taking 1mg propecia once a day. I have never had any side effects.
I take one pill at night, but I can feel that by the morning it is not working as much. My hair becomes slightly itchy.

One thing I have noticed with my hairloss is that the itch usually indicates a follicle being attacked by DHT. So then I still have to go through the rest of the day without the propecia working or only working like at 0.10mg.

If anything I have too much DHT, so propecia working at 0.10mg will allow DHT to bind back onto the follicles and I will not gain anything.

Would it be better to cut the tablet in half, and take half at night and half in the morning? Therefore getting a boost in the morning of half a tablet which going by a previous post is nearly as good as 1mg?

 

[mashang]

Peter, that is what i was going to consider, taking half a pill at night and again the other half in the morning,
hopefully Bryan can confirm id this would be a better method

 

[Bryan]

As I indicated in that long exchange I had with the poster "Enden", I think that theoretically it should be better to break single finasteride daily dosages into two or more daily doses, but I don't know if it would be worth the extra hassle to do that.

 

[keepinthehair]

As I indicated in that long exchange I had with the poster "Enden", I think that theoretically it should be better to break single finasteride daily dosages into two or more daily doses, but I don't know if it would be worth the extra hassle to do that.

Bryan, you appear to have done much research on the topic so I will propose the question to you.
If the half life of finasteride is approx 4.5 hrs,. then multidosing theoretically would be more effective and of course an IV drip the best. However, if 5a Reductase synthesis takes over 24 hrs, then single dosing should be as effective?

My second question is, how long does 5a synthesis require. I would like to take finasteride evey other day of so. No need to saturate my serum levels of finasteride while waiting for 5a Reductase to be formed if you know what I mean.

As a previous pharm manufacturer/scientist I know there is no cost benefit of doing dose studies on an already approved product (unless pressure from FDA etc has potential of monitary loss, or a way to thin an expensive active ingredient, which finasteride is not. Long term dose studies has no financial gain.

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, you appear to have done much research on the topic so I will propose the question to you.
If the half life of finasteride is approx 4.5 hrs,. then multidosing theoretically would be more effective and of course an IV drip the best. However, if 5a Reductase synthesis takes over 24 hrs, then single dosing should be as effective?

I think the amount of time it takes for the DHT level in the blood to get back to normal after the last dose of finasteride is a good overall indication of that. As I've pointed out a number of times on hairloss sites, it takes up to 1 or 2 weeks for that to happen.

My second question is, how long does 5a synthesis require. I would like to take finasteride evey other day of so. No need to saturate my serum levels of finasteride while waiting for 5a Reductase to be formed if you know what I mean.

Here's a quote from one of the Gisleskog et al studies on dutasteride and finasteride that I've referenced so often on these sites:

"Because the rate of DHT elimination, k(OUT), is high and the rate of drug absorption is rapid for both drugs, the rate of onset of effect depends on the rate of drug-dependent 5a-reductase elimination and increases with dose. It is ultimately limited only by k(OUT). For finasteride, which has as apparent terminal elimination half-life of approximately 10 hours, the rate of return to baseline DHT levels is governed mainly by the rate of 5a-reductase type 2 turnover, which has a half-life of 80 hours. This half-life agrees with the 1 to 2 weeks needed for DHT levels to return to baseline after finasteride treatment."

 

[keepinthehair]

If correct, everyone is overdosing. Perfect for Merck :whistle:

Three months ago, I took a vacation from finasteride out of curiosity due to slow onset of side effects. I believe it took very close to two weeks to go from a 41 yr old on finasteride to 17 yr old with his first girlfriend. :woot: I had two years of DHT on backorder if you know what I mean.

A previous poster noted that he notices an "itchy/tingling" sensation in the scalp at the end of a 24 h dose. If this is accurate, he (everyone on finasteride) is producing 5aR at a faster rate than 24 hours?
DHT must have a 'feedback" mechanism as all hormones do and if depleted, 5aR will be in greater demand.

 

[img23]

I think the big thing people want to know is what is the optimal amount to take and avoid the sides. Yes, maybe taking more will be beneficial to your hair, but if you lose your dick in the process what's the point. What is the balance?

I took it 10 years ago, and 1mg was too much. It stopped hair loss, but cause major sexual issues. I stopped, immediately got my sex drive back, and enjoyed my 20's without regret or dependance. I am older now, and am ok with less hair, but don't want to head into the realm of no hair. I started taking .25 finpecia again, hair loss slowed way up again, and no sexual sides. I now want to find the balance between achieving optimal results, and staying clear of those sides as well. So here's my thing;

-1mg is out for me, I already saw what it can do ten years ago.
-It's been 1 month on .25, decent intro results (slowing, not stopping). Will it be enough though? I know I am a responder, but the dosage is the question.

The most I will be able to increase is to .5mg. Think I ought to do that yet, or wait? I don't care if I take .25 twice a day or .5 once, whatever works best. Seems to be a disagreement about how to take .5 here. Input thanks.

 

[keepinthehair]

Addressed to 320,

Older now? What you are in the ripened age of early 30s? :shock:

I too do not tolerate 1 mg daily well enough to make a sacrifice. I am playing with my dose for now. I am new to the forum (any for that matter) and read somehwere that Zinc inhibits Estrogen production. Someone proposed side effects were partially due to imbalance of Test/Estrogen. As a result, I began 50mg daily for about 8 days and already notice the difference. I know RDA is much lower but will continue this daily, the excess should be pissed out anyway.

My new Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde finasteride dosing + minoxidil & Nizoral 1% (for now)
0.25mg twice daily on T, TH, Sat, Sun
0.25mh once daily M,W,F

This will be a good test to either screw up my hormone balance or prevent tolerance.

 

[img23]

Yup, I am in my 30's. When I did quit 1mg in my 20's, my sexual side effects went away within days. At .25 once a day now, no issues whatsoever. I won't go up to 1mg again, but am thinking .5mg might be tolerable. I dunno though, this thread really people arguing about what an effective dose is. Hey guys, can you provide the links again to recent studies in dosage effectiveness?

 

[Bryan]

Yup, I am in my 30's. When I did quit 1mg in my 20's, my sexual side effects went away within days. At .25 once a day now, no issues whatsoever. I won't go up to 1mg again...

I'm going to tell you the same thing I usually say to people who complain of side effects from specific doses of finasteride: do a blinded test of those specific doses on yourself, and see if you can really tell any difference between 1 mg and 0.25 mg!

You can get a friend to help you do the test by helping you make those lower finasteride doses and keeping them secret; let us know what happens in the test!