Yeah, I hate this guy. Norwood Negative

[s.a.f]

:agree: Fed up of peoples theories that this genetic condition is somehow controlable by diet and lifestyle.
As I said My father is bald as were both my grandfathers, no one will ever get me to believe that I went bald for any reason other than it was my genetic destiny.
I was born to be a bald man in the same way that some people are born to be short or tall depending on the characteristics they inherited from their parents.

 

[The Natural]

I'm not pretending to be some new age pseudo scientist but I think my statement was clear enough. But taking vitamins, supplements and all of that on top of the most healthy diet in the world is not going to alter someone's genetic code from male pattern baldness to non male pattern baldness. No amount of nutrition is going to make an nw5's follicle receptors insensitive to DHT and repair/regenerate their hair. He will be a healthy bald man but the effects of nutrition on scalp/hair makes such a minute difference to someone afflicted by male pattern baldness that it is neglegable at best.

Well, now you have included supplements, which goes beyond one's diet. And you are not writing from experience, and thus, are ignorant to the effect that natural supplementation can have on hair loss. You are ignorant to the countless number of people that have slowed their hair loss, stopped their hair loss, and/or even regrown hair with natural remedies.

Also, ask yourself do genetic codes stay the same over time or do they evolve? Can environmental (outside) factors influence our genetic makeup over time or not?

 

[Mygoodness]

Of course the Genetic code changes with time. In a cell by cell basis, alteration of genes occurs by environmental factors or mutagenic factors occuring through mitosis. Also virus' can insert genetic code into our DNA but, there is no evidence at all to say that nutritional substances can have a directed effect on a particular gene. Instead certain base-pairs get messed up with damage and the intended protein is encoded wrong; the mutation either bad/neutral/good. The only nutrition that would effect genes would be food w/hormones as those will signal activation of genes (think phyto-estrogens). I would say that any benefit from nutrition would effect mechanisms outside of the genome. They would not affect a directed change to AA related genes. Additionally, I'll say that nutritional supplementation has a systemic effect. Sure your hair may grow faster or healthier but you'll also have a better mental outlook with a healthier body. This could induce positive observational bias about your hair/image. I mean if nutrition really made a significant difference then we would have like very few bald top athletes.

Oh, for sure eating healthy is awesome. Please don't let my opinion breaka-your stride. I think that healthy eating maximizes the potentials our amazing bodies have. But if you ain't got the genetic potential to keep your hair, well that stinks. You can chemically mess with the post-genetic mechanisms (foods are chemicals too) but that's all.

 

[The Natural]

Mygoodness, that was well stated, in parts.

But we would do well to differentiate one's diet from his supplementation. While I am much less confident about the effect of one's diet, I can state unequivocally, from my readings and personal experience, that natural supplementation (e.g. herbal extracts, amino acids, vitamins, minerals) can slow and/or stop hair loss in people, irrespective of their genetic predisposition.

Throw in a natural topical of some sort (ask Jacob), and your chances to regrow hair increase exponentially.

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

male pattern baldness Hair loss has nothing to do with what you eat, period. If this were true in any way someone would have found a way to regrow some hair. They haven't. If someone does find a way, then my statement can be recanted. But right now, there is none, and likely never will be. Any such hair loss that reversed from diet changes either was a correlation, and not a causation, or it resulted in more DHT being blocked (or decreased T and DHT overall).

 

[The Natural]

... Any such hair loss that reversed from diet changes either was a correlation...or it resulted in more DHT being blocked (or decreased T and DHT overall).

Love the above "disclaimers," by the way.

Diet will affect the rate at which those (genetically predisposed) lose their hair. Eat unhealthy, nasty stuff, and your hair will fall out at a faster rate.

 

[hairhoper]

Any proof behind that statement?

 

[s.a.f]

... Any such hair loss that reversed from diet changes either was a correlation...or it resulted in more DHT being blocked (or decreased T and DHT overall).

Love the above "disclaimers," by the way.

Diet will affect the rate at which those (genetically predisposed) lose their hair. Eat unhealthy, nasty stuff, and your hair will fall out at a faster rate.

Any proof behind that statement?

Exactly, :agree: this is just one of those stupid debates that cant be proven either way like could Ali beat Tyson? there are plenty of examples though of people whose poor diet/lifestyle does'nt seem to have any negative impact on their hair.
Just ask GHG about his attempts to halt his hairloss through healthy living vs his brother doing nothing and in the end they both had the same level of hairloss.
If this theory is true then if it was'nt for my healthy lifestyle I would have probably been a NW6 by the age of 20!

 

[uncomfortable man]

I may not be as knowledgeable as my goodness when it comes to human biology and chemistry but in laymans terms I am trying to say the same thing. If nutrition is so effective at combating hair loss then why isn't this method more popular? I understand enough to know that with a good diet, supplementation is not necessary and can even be harmful. Too much of anything can have adverse effects.

About environmental factors altering genetic codes over time... how much time are we talking here? Decades if not generations or more, which does nothing for an nw5 trying to get their hair back. I can't go back in time and change the eating habbits of my ancestors to influence my condition nor do I have the time within my own life span to alter my own genetics as such. And for those countless cases you speak of most of which probably had minimal hair loss to begin with, it is very difficult to guage any sort of comparison since the rate of their hair loss is for the most part unknown. Some take decades to reach the same point others only take only a few years to reach. I am certain that the amount of cases of people with nw5/6 slick bald horshoes attaining a full head of nw1 hair through nutrition ALONE (without meds) can be counted on two hands, if not one. At the end of the day your whole thesis (no matter how educated it may be) means nothing to an nw5 like myself who is looking for a viable solution to regain a full head of hair.

 

[The Natural]

Any proof behind that statement?

Which statement? Diet affecting one's hair and scalp? I got plenty. Look, I have read countless posts from people (at other sites) that I have known online for years, discussing foods that have, for example, increased their shedding or itchiness of the scalp.

 

[The Natural]

...At the end of the day your whole thesis (no matter how educated it may be) means nothing to an nw5 like myself who is looking for a viable solution to regain a full head of hair.

Well, we both agree that a change in diet will most likely not regrow hair on your head. I do believe, however, that had you begun an aggressive natural regimen earlier, you may have been able to keep more of it.

But now, I gather, the only viable solution for a NW5 would be a transplant.

 

[deadlocks]

No I'm asking if you think that if a NW6 guy like myself or Ucman had drank green tea everyday of his life he could have kept his hair?

You'd probably maintain as well as if you would if you had taken finasteride. In combination with finasteride I feel it could be slightly more effective, as it's a different method to block DHT.

So perhaps you could have maintained it longer. I don't know if you've taken finasteride, or what results it could give you but if it didn't work, then green tea wouldn't have worked either...

Also sorry if I came of as rude before.

 

[s.a.f]

No I'm asking if you think that if a NW6 guy like myself or Ucman had drank green tea everyday of his life he could have kept his hair?

You'd probably maintain as well as if you would if you had taken finasteride. In combination with finasteride I feel it could be slightly more effective, as it's a different method to block DHT.

So perhaps you could have maintained it longer. I don't know if you've taken finasteride, or what results it could give you but if it didn't work, then green tea wouldn't have worked either...

Also sorry if I came of as rude before.

I'm pretty sceptical about that, is green tea really as powerful at suppressing DHT as a drug designed to do purely that?

What really pisses me off is when some people come on here and claim thing like a vitimin supplement will help combat DHT and there are some morons out there who believe this kind of thing.
I remember when I started losing hair I'd get people (with NW1's) telling me I should eat more fruit and veg! (as they sat there with their coffee and biscuits, smoking cigarettes).
Kind of annoying when I knew for sure that my diet was 10 x better than theirs.

And as for the genetic/gene evolution theory - forget it. That kind of thing happens over the course of 1000's or 10'000's of years.

 

[The Natural]

I remember when I started losing hair I'd get people (with NW1's) telling me I should eat more fruit and veg! (as they sat there with their coffee and biscuits, smoking cigarettes). Kind of annoying when I knew for sure that my diet was 10 x better than theirs.

LOL! That would suck, for sure. And I do sympathize. But I don't think that anyone here is stating that vitamins will reverse hair loss.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if our genes have been evolving at a much faster rate as of late...

 

[TheGrayMan2001]

... Any such hair loss that reversed from diet changes either was a correlation...or it resulted in more DHT being blocked (or decreased T and DHT overall).

Love the above "disclaimers," by the way.

Diet will affect the rate at which those (genetically predisposed) lose their hair. Eat unhealthy, nasty stuff, and your hair will fall out at a faster rate.

Entirely untrue. There is no reason to believe that what you just said was true.

 

[atliens99]

Ya That guy's hairline is too low it just looks un natural. And I 100 percent diet can help with seboric dermatitis ( the thing when you get itchy flakes on scalp). but not sure on male pattern baldness.

 

[The Natural]

Entirely untrue. There is no reason to believe that what you just said was true.

There are a lot of reasons, Huckleberry. Countless posts that I've read over the years, from people who have stated, for example, dairy products (e.g. milk) cause their scalp to itch, and hair to shed more; others complained that greasy or really spicy have a similar effect.

Again, to say the one's diet has zero effect on one's scalp and hair is, at best, naive.

Courtesy of gh05: http://www.baldingblog.com/2011/12/05/e ... ss-part-1/

 

[Baldtimmy]

I wish my hair still looked like that! :sobbing:

 

[Dedge89]

I do agree that in general people have a find time believing someone can be completely predisposed to a condition due to genetics and likes to attribute external factors to their problems. I have a friend who always makes comments about overweight people such as 'why don't they eat vegetables, why are they so greedy, they need to sort themselves out' and when I'd try explain to him that for the general populus factors such as a stable body weight and type are pretty much mostly defined by genetics, such as are characteristics like height, he says thats massive B.S and it's almost purely down to the food they eat -_-

HOWEVER! I think it is silly/naive to assume that these genetically decided fates of our bodies are not environmentally/nutritionally affected at all. There must be atleast a -/+ 5-10% range of how things could go, this is surely a logical and clear statement. A person might be genetically determined to have an optimal body weight of say 80kg with a body fat level of 20% but extreme dietary/lifestyle changes would shift that in one way or another, even if it would be almost insignificant.

In the same manner, I think a person predisposed to male pattern baldness can definitely affect the process to an extent. Sure, ucman and saf, you could of not stopped the ultimate fate of being a NW6 eventually, but I believe that lifestyle choices of yours could have most probably to some significant extent accelerated the process or delayed it.

However, I can't prove this. I can't link you to studies. I can't convince you that there are any real significant effects of doing such a thing. And ofcourse if you drank green tea everyday of your life up to now you'd still probably be a NW6. But I'm pretty sure, atleast through gut instinct, that if I was to smoke 20 cigarettes a day I would provoke my hairloss situation more than I was to smoke non at all. Same with diet, I think if I was to eat certain foods assoiciated with causing any of the contributing factors to male pattern baldness, it would make an effect.

Ofcourse if there is no predisposition to such a condition, it doesn't matter and such choices are insignificant. I can eat 4000 calories a day of sh*t and stay at a nice, framed weight with low body fat the same way a tramp could have a full head of hair.

 

[Mygoodness]

In regards to the above post... Obesity and Hairloss are not the same thing. Grouping the two as conditions that are effected by environment and genetics by equal proportions is not correct. The ratios are different. Additionally, male pattern baldness exhibits different symptoms then environmentally induced alopecia. male pattern baldness follows a pattern, whereas I think it's fair to say alopecia caused by nutritional/environmental stressors exhibits symptoms distinct from those of male pattern baldness. I would also say that as far as the genetics/enviroment ratios, environmental/lifestyle choices influence weight gain in higher proportions that they would influence male pattern baldness (Notice I am not saying all alopecia, just male pattern baldness).