Wow, sounds like Dr. Rassman's starting to change his Tune

[cristi2011]

That's right- undocumented! Based on what people say -on forums or out of them!
DHT and the brain?? That would make no sense as it would mean male brain
functions completely different from female brain, since DHT inhibiting affects it.

And it may be the following explanation: people who take propecia and are not responders may be affected psychologically when they see what they believed could regenerate their hair has no effect-they may even get into depression and then attribute it to finasteride!!
And let's not forget who is taking finasteride: people who are already emotionally affected from hair loss, some of them even devastated! And when the fact that finasteride doesn't work adds, their emotional problems even increase! And it's just a short step from here to attributing them to finasteride and blaming the drug for whatever problems they have!

Come on, man! Give finasteride a break! You simply had sides on it, and now you're constantly searching for evidence that it's bad. There is no proven evidence to what you say, and even if it would be, that wouldn't apply to all finasteride takers, only to a minority of them, so what's the point?? If you quit taking the drug, do you feel better trying to believe and prove that, if it was bad for you, it is bad for everyone??

 

[Mens Rea]

Obviously any admissions are welcome but perhaps he should have been (and should be in future) more careful in pushing finasteride so hard in the first place.


He admits he doesn't have a clue, basically. We all know this already. It's not his area of expertise so i dont know what some guys (yes Wuffer I'm talking about you) have taken his and other similarily unqualified doctor's sentiments so seriously (e.g. A hair loss restoration doctor?! LOL).

You think the inhibition of the 5ARII enzyme (aoppears all of over the body but mainly in hair follicles and PROSTRATE) isn't a complex matter? Hell yes it is. Dr Rassman admitting this is pretty rich given its in inherently complex issue that even the most qualified of scientists are still researching. This doesn't even get into the other pathways which finasteride blocks (yep, it's a clumbsy drug not even made for hairloss) such as allapregnanolone conversion and other essential processes associated with brian and endoctrine health.

 

[global]

Obviously any admissions are welcome but perhaps he should have been (and should be in future) more careful in pushing finasteride so hard in the first place.


He admits he doesn't have a clue, basically. We all know this already. It's not his area of expertise so i dont know what some guys (yes Wuffer I'm talking about you) have taken his and other similarily unqualified doctor's sentiments so seriously (e.g. A hair loss restoration doctor?! LOL).

You think the inhibition of the 5ARII enzyme (aoppears all of over the body but mainly in hair follicles and PROSTRATE) isn't a complex matter? Hell yes it is. Dr Rassman admitting this is pretty rich given its in inherently complex issue that even the most qualified of scientists are still researching. This doesn't even get into the other pathways which finasteride blocks (yep, it's a clumbsy drug not even made for hairloss) such as allapregnanolone conversion and other essential processes associated with brian and endoctrine health.

But isn't it only type I 5AR involved in that, while finasteride only inhibits type II 5AR?

 

[I AM AWESOME]

I don't think he's changing his mind per se. I mean all he's saying is that he doesn't know the damage propecia does to the brain, and seeing how honest he is most of the time, this isn't surprising. I can bet you that he still reccomends Propecia, and like he said in one of his blogs, his patients aren't sheeps, if they want to take Propecia he'll prescribe it, but if they won't he won't be forcing it down their throats.

 

[Mens Rea]

That's right- undocumented! Based on what people say -on forums or out of them!
DHT and the brain?? That would make no sense as it would mean male brain
functions completely different from female brain, since DHT inhibiting affects it.

And it may be the following explanation: people who take propecia and are not responders may be affected psychologically when they see what they believed could regenerate their hair has no effect-they may even get into depression and then attribute it to finasteride!!
And let's not forget who is taking finasteride: people who are already emotionally affected from hair loss, some of them even devastated! And when the fact that finasteride doesn't work adds, their emotional problems even increase! And it's just a short step from here to attributing them to finasteride and blaming the drug for whatever problems they have!

Come on, man! Give finasteride a break! You simply had sides on it, and now you're constantly searching for evidence that it's bad. There is no proven evidence to what you say, and even if it would be, that wouldn't apply to all finasteride takers, only to a minority of them, so what's the point?? If you quit taking the drug, do you feel better trying to believe and prove that, if it was bad for you, it is bad for everyone??

That's an extremely amateurish summary. Sorry, but it is. The brain is much more complicated than that. Male and females are hugely different in so many ways, including brain.

Not to mention, the most alarming trend on propeciahelp is that so many guys who are stuck down with these sides happened to have the best results in terms of hair. Some guys' hairloss has actually completely stopped.

 

[Mens Rea]

Obviously any admissions are welcome but perhaps he should have been (and should be in future) more careful in pushing finasteride so hard in the first place.


He admits he doesn't have a clue, basically. We all know this already. It's not his area of expertise so i dont know what some guys (yes Wuffer I'm talking about you) have taken his and other similarily unqualified doctor's sentiments so seriously (e.g. A hair loss restoration doctor?! LOL).

You think the inhibition of the 5ARII enzyme (aoppears all of over the body but mainly in hair follicles and PROSTRATE) isn't a complex matter? Hell yes it is. Dr Rassman admitting this is pretty rich given its in inherently complex issue that even the most qualified of scientists are still researching. This doesn't even get into the other pathways which finasteride blocks (yep, it's a clumbsy drug not even made for hairloss) such as allapregnanolone conversion and other essential processes associated with brian and endoctrine health.

But isn't it only type I 5AR involved in that, while finasteride only inhibits type II 5AR?

News to me...

 

[terrapin12]

I appreciate what Rassman does, but he's always been arrogant about propecia. I recall someone asking a question about a lower dose, and he attacked them, saying the goal wasn't to see how little finasteride you could take, but how much hair you could regrow. The questioner was clearly only concerned about side effects, and he ignored it.

 

[brett83]

I won't get drawn into the debate about the pros and cons of propecia (it worked for me, but i appreciate some people have had sides from it) but it does bug me a little when people refer to propeciahelp website, there are 1790 members on that site according to it, it also has a disclaimer saying that any content should not be taken as advice but as opinion based.

I wonder how many members I could get if I created a website called propeciasucess, im just trying to say we need to remind ourselves that we must keep things relative, millions of people use propecia on a daily basis.

Brett

 

[cristi2011]

@brett83: I agree perfectly with what you say. It's common sense after all.
Even if we trust that site, 1000 people out of millions is like a raindrop in an ocean.
@Mens Rea: I've done some research: only TYPE 1 DHT is found in the brain, and Propecia doesn't inhibit it. And these supposed issues with DHT and brain are years old(read something from 2004). If there was to be something serious we would have known by now.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

Am i misreading this?

Main article: 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor
5-Alpha-reductase inhibitor drugs are used in benign prostatic hyperplasia, prostate cancer, and baldness. Both isoforms are also produced in the brain, where they serve to create the neurosteroid allopregnanolone (5AR type I) and convert T to DHT(5AR type II)(1). Finasteride inhibits the function of only one of the isoenzymes (type 2), whereas dutasteride inhibits both forms.
Research has indicated certain mushrooms have anti-5-alpha reductase activity.[4

Its the first article i found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-alpha_reductase

I agree with the sentiment that he seems to have changed his tone, that's the least arrogant reply i've heard him give to a question.

 

[slurms mackenzie]

@brett83: I agree perfectly with what you say. It's common sense after all.
Even if we trust that site, 1000 people out of millions is like a raindrop in an ocean.
@Mens Rea: I've done some research: only TYPE 1 DHT is found in the brain, and Propecia doesn't inhibit it. And these supposed issues with DHT and brain are years old(read something from 2004). If there was to be something serious we would have known by now.

Actually what is Type 1 DHT? I've never heard of it.

 

[cristi2011]

It is DHT made by type-1 alpha reductase.
Both of them produce DHT. propecia inhibits only type 2 AR.

 

[Wuffer]

You guys have it in your heads that I think Dr. Rassman is some sort of god. I enjoy reading his blogs, so what? I've always thought he was a bit arrogant about how propecia works as well; there are many pretty simple questions people have asked him that he hasn't been able to answer.

I don't think he's changed his view at all. He said himself: undocumented.

You guys are on this crusade to scour the internet and post anything that shows finasteride is bad. It's pretty clear to everyone how extremely biased you guys are, because you have both had a very negative experience with the drug yourself.

When I see posts like these, I see you pulling at straws. I think finfighters intention here was to show people that there is really a danger here and the hair transplant doctors are finally admitting to it.

To me, it shows how little ground your cause has, and the incredible lack of evidence you have to support your claims is really starting to show.

I've really grown bored of arguing the same points. I've said it before: when you've got some actual evidence to show us, we can start up a new debate.

 

[Mens Rea]

I've really grown bored of arguing the same points. I've said it before: when you've got some actual evidence to show us, we can start up a new debate.

There is no debate. The information is there if you want it.

 

[Mens Rea]

@Mens Rea: I've done some research: only TYPE 1 DHT is found in the brain, and Propecia doesn't inhibit it. And these supposed issues with DHT and brain are years old(read something from 2004). If there was to be something serious we would have known by now.

Yes, that's right.

But that wasn't what i meant.

I meant that certain mechanisms of how finasteride works effects the brain. AFAIK this is seperate to it's interaction with 5ARII.

Now to mention, the actual effect of DHT defeciency can actually effect the brain by certain feedback mechanisms disrupting neurotransmitters. TBH i'm not as well read up on this as i should be - mainly because i don't have mental sides, but it's definately been theorised in many papers.

 

[Wuffer]

If it wasn't a debate, the entire medical community would agree as well. Just because you are so convinced doesn't mean the rest of the world is.

I'm really patiently waiting here.. I've heard some people at propeciahelp have a few studies underway that will prove without a doubt that finasteride can cause permanent side effects.

I love being proven wrong! Until I see that proof, there's nothing left to argue. I give you full permission to rub it in my face when this happens.

 

[Prop]

I just thought that it was very surprising to see Dr. Rassman even acknowledge Brain Fog because he used to dismiss it outright, he has changed his tone it's oubvious.

i 've seen other docs on web changing attitude to fina

e.g. there's a web dermatologist in my country that usually jokes on PFS.
in the last months he didn't do it anymore

 

[I AM AWESOME]

Yo, dude, look at this forum:http://www.topix.com/forum/drug/proscar/T0KGFP19QC3CDB54V/p2

An overwhelming amount of people on there are experiencing sides, and that too permanent. It's seriously put me off propecia. :sobbing:

 

[Wuffer]

Yo, dude, look at this forum:http://www.topix.com/forum/drug/proscar/T0KGFP19QC3CDB54V/p2

An overwhelming amount of people on there are experiencing sides, and that too permanent. It's seriously put me off propecia. :sobbing:

It could be 10,000 people claiming permanent sides. It doesn't make it any more true.

If you are personally affected by these claims, thats your decision. Don't take finasteride if you don't think it's safe.

 

[Ende]

That's right- undocumented! Based on what people say -on forums or out of them!
DHT and the brain?? That would make no sense as it would mean male brain
functions completely different from female brain, since DHT inhibiting affects it.

Androgens, especially DHT, affects your brain a lot. Estrogen does that too, for that matter. It makes perfectly sense that a 70% reduction in the DHT level affects your brain negatively. For instance; DHT affects aggression, and aggression isn't necessarily a negative term. Reduced levels of androgens are linked to depression as well, and that's documented. Estrogen makes you more emotional. Just read about BB's who use very androgenic steroids, and those who use Clomid for PCT. The male and female brain acts a bit differently.