Would cardio counter-act weights?

[Jonny Q]

Hi all, just wondered if anyone counteracted the raised testosterone levels of weight training with cardio work like running / cycling.
As posted before, I get increased hair loss when I start to weight train, When I say increased I mean - the Hair loss had pretty much stopped, I then started training and the hair loss started again.
Also wondered if anyone had similar effects but worked through this to start to maintain again. I currently take generic propecia, and as I said it had just started to have good effects, but Traing has gone and buggered it all up again, just waiting for it to calm down again hopefully (I've stopped traing for a while)

thanks in advance

 

[ali777]

I have read a few of those posts that claim working out increases hairloss. TBH, I'm a bit confused. Even if training increases your DHT levels and thus causes hairloss, the hair should go into the resting phase for 2 to 3 months and then fall out. I don't understand how one training session can effect hairloss in one day. If anyone knows the answer, I'd like to hear it...

I actually don't know the answer to your question. The general assumption is that cardio reduces DHT, and working out increases "free testosterone". However, there is also evidence showing working out decreasing free testosterone, so I don't know which is correct.

 

[Jonny Q]

It doesn't happen after one session, and then noticable that day, but after a couple of weeks of training.
Its all ok to start with but then the hairloss starts back up again. with the only change in lifestyle being the weight training.
I thought being fit was supposed to be healthy? its kind of a crappy trick for your body to play!

 

[ali777]

after a couple of weeks of training.

That makes sense...

I thought being fit was supposed to be healthy? its kind of a crappy trick for your body to play!

Yeah, you have to watch out for the excess free testosterone in the body...

Quote from wikipedia:

Regular aerobic exercise can help keep androgen levels (particularly free testosterone levels) naturally lower while maintaining overall health, lowering stress and increasing SHBG. [12] [13]

Weight training without aerobic exercise may increase testosterone.[14] [15] [16] [17] One study suggests that both heavy exercise and increased fat intake, in combination, are required for increased free testosterone in strength trainers. Increased total or free testosterone would help them build and repair muscle, but may cause susceptible individuals to lose hair.[18]

However, there is at least one study that indicates a decline in free testosterone combined with an increase in strength due to an (unspecified) strength training regimen.[19]

Daily, vigorous aerobic exercise (as opposed to short workout periods designed to raise androgen levels and build muscle, or more sporadic exercise) and a diet which is adequate yet more moderate in terms of fat and total calorie intake have been shown to reduce baseline insulin levels as well as baseline total and free testosterone,[12].

Lower insulin levels and reduced stress both result in raised levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG). SHBG binds to testosterone, and prevents it from circulating free in the blood. Only free testosterone is converted to DHT. It is the level of free androgens and not total androgens which is relevant to the levels of DHT in the scalp and the progression of male pattern baldness. In short, aerobic exercise is capable of significantly lowering DHT. [13] [14] Exercise has not been shown to prevent male-pattern baldness.[citations needed]

 

[Jonny Q]

Thanks for the response Ali, Thats interesting reading!
I do enjoy running, but I feel that I could do with bulking up a little bit, just to make me feel happier about myself, I'm not trying to be the next HulkHogan or anything! Now I'm older (38), Ive got a gym at home, and I've got the time to put into it, its just anoying that I've made this discovery with the way my body reacts to it.
I think I'm going to stick with the running for a while and wait for the hair loss to stop for a couple of weeks, then try to slowly add some weight traing alongside the running, and see if it works.
When I think back, before I went onto propecia, I went a bit mad with the vitamin side of things. I thought I'd give it one last try using Saw pal, B6, iron, Zinc, Biotin, Inosital & choline, plus a multi vit. It went realy well with a fast response, the hairfall stopped and the remaining hair felt much better. Not long after this I started training again, I also started taking a supplement drink which included Creatine, then not long after this it all went tits up again. I'm now wondering if it was because of the training?
I notice you take Biotin and MSM, do you feel that these work well for you?
thanks again for the comments and I appreciate any other thoughts that you, or anyone else might have.

 

[ali777]

When I think back, before I went onto propecia, I went a bit mad with the vitamin side of things. I thought I'd give it one last try using Saw pal, B6, iron, Zinc, Biotin, Inosital & choline, plus a multi vit.

I also started taking a supplement drink which included Creatine, then not long after this it all went tits up again. I'm now wondering if it was because of the training?

I notice you take Biotin and MSM, do you feel that these work well for you?
thanks again for the comments and I appreciate any other thoughts that you, or anyone else might have.

Yeah, I take all the stuff too. TBH, I have read a bit about the benefits of vitamins and minerals but most of the evidence is not conclusive :dunno: .

I recently started taking creatine believing that it would improve my energy levels, I haven't seen any evidence that suggests it may cause hairloss. It works at cell level to release ATP, as far as I know it doesn't affect hormonal balance. For the first few days I felt more energetic, but I'm not sure if it was due to the placebo effect or creatine working in my body.

I take a "hair, skin, and nails" vitamin and mineral supplement, my hair and skin are definitely healthier but that doesn't mean my male pattern baldness has stopped. I'm still losing ground but very slowly :sobbing: .

I took MSM for 2-3 months, I was never convinced with it. I don't take it anymore. Lots of users say it makes their hair grow quicker/stronger, I didn't really notice a big change. Even if my hair grew quicker, it wasn't noticeable to me. I guess you could try it for yourself.

I take a silica supplement that also includes 15mg of Zinc... I love that extra zinc :woot: , I can feel the increased testosterone in my body :jackit: ... I usually take it 2-3 times a week because more than 20mg of Zinc a day is not recommended. I'm a bit baffled with this one, I know it increases my testosterone, which could be counter productive, but some evidence suggests zinc has DHT inhibiting properties as well. So in the right dose, it could be helpful, but in excessive doses it can be toxic too. I just hope the testosterone in my body is the right kind

I tried saw palmetto as well, I had propecia like side-effects. My body just doesn't agree with those DHT inhibitors :thumbdown2: . That's why I'm convinced SP may work, I know from experience my body reacts to both SP and finasteride in a similar way, just different strength.

 

[CCS]

Hi all, just wondered if anyone counteracted the raised testosterone levels of weight training with cardio work like running / cycling.

Myth.

Testosterone is always raised when you run the correct amount to stimulate your leg muscles but not over train them. It is when you go on and on that you go into a cortisol cycle, though some elite distance althetes thrive on it since they have so much slow twitch muscle.

Just don't do cardio more than 1 hour per week. Break it up into 3 20 minute sessions, though not at once. Start low, build up. As long as you do a moderately challeging workout for a reasonable amount of time, and feel pumped instead of torn down afterwards, you will have more testosterone. And do the same post workout stuff you'd so after a weight workout.

 

[Cassin]

I am riding my bike for about 5 hours a week
I weight train 3 to 4 times a week
Light resistant bands almost daily
Regular sex

Hair is holding strong.

 

[CCS]

I just got done doing 20 minutes on a stationary bike. Heart rate averaged around 150 bpm. Legs feel great. I don't care what anyone tells me, I'm not going to stop doing that 3x a week. It must be healthy.

 

[somone uk]

i think it really depends on your 5AR levels compared with T if exercise increases DHT i mean

if your body has an abundance of testosterone compared with 5AR then increasing testosterone wouldn't make much difference
on the other hand if your body had an abundance of 5AR compared with testosterone then exercise will increase DHT

also for aerobic exercise to decrees testosterone i read somewhere that you have to do about 80 minutes a day and it would also make your body start burning protein and it could be detrimental to your muscles

 

[CCS]

i think it really depends on your 5AR levels compared with T if exercise increases DHT i mean

if your body has an abundance of testosterone compared with 5AR then increasing testosterone wouldn't make much difference
on the other hand if your body had an abundance of 5AR compared with testosterone then exercise will increase DHT

also for aerobic exercise to decrees testosterone i read somewhere that you have to do about 80 minutes a day and it would also make your body start burning protein and it could be detrimental to your muscles

what he says is true.
And if you are on finasteride I would not worry much about the 5ar.

 

[Jonny Q]

All I know is that its still falling now, a good 3 - 4 weeks after I started. I'm onto the running now, 3 times a week for about 30mins, with no weight training at the moment. I'm starting to wonder if this is a shed I'm going through? How often do these things come along? It would be one hell of a coinsidence if it is, that would be twice its happened, not long after starting training. There's loads in the morning when I wash it but the fall in the day looks to be reducing a little. Just want it to stop so I can get back on track, It was definately starting to look and feel better, oh well, fingers crossed.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I am riding my bike for about 5 hours a week
I weight train 3 to 4 times a week
Light resistant bands almost daily
Regular sex

Hair is holding strong.

So that's where I'm going wrong, got to cut out the kinky stuff....

 

[abovedagame]

I am riding my bike for about 5 hours a week
I weight train 3 to 4 times a week
Light resistant bands almost daily
Regular sex

Hair is holding strong.

Cassin, I've been looking into buying a couple pairs of resistance bands to do some light workouts at home. Do you recommend any specific brand? Thanks

 

[Jonny Q]

OK, its still falling, lots, so the change to running does not look to be helping me.
Excuse my lack of knowledge here, but, I think it would it be safe to say, that in my case, taking the propecia had started to work. The hair loss had stopped and there was a definate increase in hair thickness and coverage. Once starting the training, be it either weight training or cardio, the hair loss has come back.
With regard to how the Propoecia works could you see it as a sort of slow trickle filter :dunno: that restricts and gets rid of the DHT thingy, which in my case on normal day to day life was enough. But when I introduce the training, my testosterone levels have increased, creating more DHT, in excess of which the propecia can deal with, which spills over the filter and into my body.
If this is the case, would an increased dose allow more capacity to deal with the raised levels? or how about the introduction of Saw Palmetto, which does a similar type of thing?, I've used S.P in the past with no side effects, and if it could boost the propecia I could include it into my regime.
Apologies for the poor explanation, I'm not as well educated in how it all works and get rather confused with all the 5AR, DHT, Free ranging testosterone etc but any thoughts or comments on this question are greatly appreciated.